(Topic ID: 104676)

WPPR formula change for 2015!

By ifpapinball

9 years ago


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  • Latest reply 8 years ago by desertT1
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    #126 9 years ago

    Regarding Frazier Valley - at first I was worried about the "if I blow it on 2 games, it's impossible to qualify" factor. The thing is . . . I DID completely blow it on 2 of the games and still made it in. Many of the 16 qualifiers had at least one ZERO out of their 8 games.

    If I understand it correctly, if next year they take the "sum of 3 attempts" on each machine the WPPR total will be a whole lot higher? I wonder if limited buy in HERB's will start taking that approach?

    If anyone is curious here's the qualifying breakdown - http://fvfo.wapinball.net/main2014.htm

    #172 9 years ago

    Not to jump to Brackelopes defense . . . but I'm going to.

    You mentioned that Brackelope will draw the same machine for a person just finishing their match. If you were to use the "names out of a hat" method, and drew the next match as soon as their match was done, you would probably draw the only machine available and they'd play the same game.

    If you want to avoid this - wait until the "round" finishes and all the machines are available - Brackelope probably won't pick the same machine.

    As far as rankings go - if you want to avoid the weird "I won one game and lost two, yet still placed lower than someone who didn't win any games. Play 2-strike or 3-strike knockout instead of double elimination. You'll also avoid playing the same machine twice as you have to wait for everyone to finish each round before playing the next.

    #176 9 years ago

    Whysnow - sounds like you don't like the double elimination format. Within that format brackelope has no ranking issues - it's the need for byes that create those weird ranking scenarios. I guess I'm saying it's the double elim's format that is at fault - not brackelope. Brackelope just give rank based on place and if someone gets a 1st round by due to there not being a full 8/16/32/64 person bracket, then loses 2 they can be tie with someone who didn't get a bye, wins a game and loses two. This is true using brackelope/paper/any other software.

    If you use 2-strike/3-strike knockout - problem solved. We've always had double elim brackets for our weekly events and the big double elim Ground Kontrol tournament (100+ people). Historically ground kontrol would end after midnight. The first year brackelope was used I believe it shaved 4-5 hours off the event due to it's efficiency. Our weekly events (30-40 people on 5+ machines) used to end as late as 11 or midnight - now it's more like 9:30 or 10

    I like lots of formats including double elim. If you're gonna do double elim or 2-strike, brackelope works extremely well. It kinda sucks when you don't have a full bracket, but again - that's the problem with double elim.

    #180 9 years ago

    1 - You're right! - true double elimination isn't "fair"! If a player gets a bye, they are ranked as if they beat someone. When you don't consider a bye a win, you're not talking about true double elim. People are saying brackelope sucks because it ranks people according to the way a *true* double elimination tournament is ranked. I will defend that this is not the case, cuz it's not!

    2 - Brackelope allows you to hold matches or redraw machines. As a tournament director you can choose to hold matches as long as you want (end of the round or until more machines open up) or redraw machines so that no one plays the same game back to back - it's not the softwares fault it tries to do things in the most efficient way possible. You can adjust the way you use it to try and insure players don't play games back to back. Often we'll draw matches as quickly as possible early in the night, then start waiting for rounds to end when it's down to 8 people or less. Brackelope weighs the machines that people have already played, so the chances of it picking a game that neither player has played increase as the tournament moves on . . . which is awesome!

    3 - Double Elimination and 2-strike are not the same thing. 2-strike solves the ranking issue but you have to wait for rounds to finish.

    Modifying the way your rank a double elimination bracket is exactly that - a modification - it's not *true* double elimination when byes aren't considered wins. Both have their pros/cons.

    Brackelope makes things super easy and I think it's a huge contribution to the world of competitive pinball. Double elim and 2-strike have their flaws, but I attribute them to the format, not the software.

    #181 9 years ago

    Question - in the "modified ranking double elimination" paper method . . . is the winner based on the number of wins?

    Are players rewarded (rankwise) for doing better in the (tougher) winners bracket?

    Also - is a bye into the top 16/8 looked at differently than a first round bye given due to an uneven bracket?

    #189 9 years ago

    Gotcha - it sounds like players at the ends of the bracket/tournament are treated (in terms of rank) differently then players at the middle/beginning.

    I figured I'd paste this tournament as an example to anyone who's curious of how ranking based on *wins alone* (I know yours somehow figures in when the wins/losses take place) could yield weird results

    http://live.brackelope.com/t/m8va4

    Emma Eichhorn won more matches than anyone else in the tournament - she got 3rd place. All her wins took place in the losers bracket. 2nd/1st had got their wins in the winners bracket which are "worth more" based on the fact that they won those matches against other winners. Counting wins alone would have had her winning the tournament - awarding her equal value for beating others in the losers bracket to the wins achieved in the winners bracket.

    I'd be curious to see where Emma would be ranked based on the modified system.

    #191 9 years ago
    Quoted from soren:

    Really? Well, then that option has not be used much in the tourneys I have played at.

    Absolutely! We generally don't do it much early in the night to try and keep things moving, but it's an option. You don't *have* to draw the next match right away just wait until a few machines open up.

    #194 9 years ago
    Quoted from soren:

    You're putting words in my mouth. Of course byes are a granted win. I have never said anything but.
    Somebody earning a bye - is receiving a bye - and carried through to the next round.

    If a bye is considered a win and someone gets a 1st round bye, they won their first match. They lose their next 2 and place higher than someone who did not get a bye and went loss/win/loss

    If someone does not receive a bye and loses their first match they go to the losers bracket. Even if they win a game in the losers then lose their 2nd they'll still place lower than the person who received a first round bye because technically that person won a game before losing two which is worth more than the loss/win/loss scenario.

    win/loss/loss is ranked higher than loss/win/loss

    This is true is assuming that byes always = a win without exception and not just at some parts of the bracket.

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