(Topic ID: 104676)

WPPR formula change for 2015!


By ifpapinball

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 443 posts
  • 65 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by desertT1
  • Topic is favorited by 13 Pinsiders

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    You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider jonnyo.
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    #276 4 years ago

    Overall I like the changes. My only bummer is that Time-attack style events are penalized. In fact I was conceiving an event with three sets of the same games (2 each) and running a tournament with a slalom-style. Players play a timed match, swap games and the highest combined score wins that match.

    I disagree on skill being diminished, particularly if enough rounds are played. It requires formulating a strategy that can be quickly executed and then doing it under a lot of pressure. The format often favors flow players and punishes control players, but the good players could always change up as needed.

    At the last one I ran there were around 30 players in a double-elim. It was Patrik Bodin, Hal Erickson and Andrei Massenkoff in the top 3. There is some variation in the results but no more or less than I see in other smaller, one-day events. And with additional rounds, swiss pairings, round robin, etc. the luck factor would not be an issue.

    A huge advantage of time-attack events is the game needs minimal modification from stock and tournaments can be run within very predictable time periods (the aforementioned tournament only took about 3.5 hours!). Players never have a massive wait. It's also exciting to watch (a consideration for streaming and TV).

    4 months later
    #314 4 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    Todd gets it!
    The only thing I'll disagree with is that the 'top players' could be ANYONE (if you earn it). We're not specifically working to protect "Today's" top players . . . besides you know . . . protecting myself . . . and my brother . . . and anyone else in the top 50 that is currently sending me cash to keep their rank up.

    Are you offering pre-orders for these spots? Do you accept direct bank transfer, personal check, or other forms of completely unprotected payment?

    We can trust Josh, everyone. His dad invented pinball.

    #342 4 years ago
    Quoted from jonnyo:

    Overall I like the changes. My only bummer is that Time-attack style events are penalized. In fact I was conceiving an event with three sets of the same games (2 each) and running a tournament with a slalom-style. Players play a timed match, swap games and the highest combined score wins that match.
    I disagree on skill being diminished, particularly if enough rounds are played. It requires formulating a strategy that can be quickly executed and then doing it under a lot of pressure. The format often favors flow players and punishes control players, but the good players could always change up as needed.
    At the last one I ran there were around 30 players in a double-elim. It was Patrik Bodin, Hal Erickson and Andrei Massenkoff in the top 3. There is some variation in the results but no more or less than I see in other smaller, one-day events. And with additional rounds, swiss pairings, round robin, etc. the luck factor would not be an issue.
    A huge advantage of time-attack events is the game needs minimal modification from stock and tournaments can be run within very predictable time periods (the aforementioned tournament only took about 3.5 hours!). Players never have a massive wait. It's also exciting to watch (a consideration for streaming and TV).

    Josh, since you're reading the thread, any comments on my previous post? I have a guy who is interested in doing some video stuff and I think a live stream of an event like this would be super fun.

    #346 4 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    Sorry about that Jon . . . totally missed your previous post.
    Per our rules:
    "The TGP only considers games of 3 or more balls in the game count, with the exception of the Pin-Golf format where players can possibly hit their target score in fewer than 3 balls. 1 ball games or any timed games will not be included in the TGP calculation."
    It's possible for you to used a timed format as part of your event, and have impact on the final standings, however they simply won't be included in the final game count for TGP purposes.

    Well, I hope at some point you'll reconsider. Maybe even try running it at one of your local events sometime and you'll see what I mean about its advantages and that it's still very skillful play. As much, I feel, as pingolf is anyway.

    #350 4 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Just to play devil's advocate...
    Would it count towards TGP if the games were scored as points/time = rank, and whoever has the higher rank is the winner of the round? They'd still be allowed to play 3 balls but be punished for excessive cradling, etc.

    I see what you're saying. I have to think about it. One issue is it would significantly impact why a lot of players like the format. It's a very high-energy, pressure atmosphere, quite in contrast to the gentlemanly, golf-like atmosphere of most head-to-head formats. It's an adrenaline rush.

    Each round consists of me calling up the next 6 players (3 matches). I yell at them to coin up, count them all down "3-2-1-GO!" and all plunge off at the same time. I sound off at the 1 minute mark, then 30 seconds, then 10-9-8... hands off!" They assess the scores, switch games, and repeat. The only format I can think of that has a similar feeling of excitement is the PAPA Gauntlet format.

    Speaking of which - Josh, would guantlet fall under the timed game format? That's similar to pingolf, just with the haul-ass factor.

    #355 4 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    I get it, and have played in some of the old Gauntlet style events that Bowen has run, and they are TONS OF FUN!
    At some point though I take it to the golf analogy. On the PGA Tour they run many styles of tournaments, stroke play, match play, skins games, best ball, etc . . . but I've yet to see Speed Golf as one of the formats. The day they start to sprinkle in Speed Golf events on the tour, maybe we'll consider it for pinball

    Ugh.. please don't use golf for modeling. Something higher energy like basketball or hockey (minus the fighting part).

    #356 4 years ago

    "The sport is now played in North America, Europe and Japan, and major tournaments are telecast by channels such as ESPN, CBS, and The Golf Channel."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_golf

    #366 4 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    http://www.isfpapinball.com for the International Speed Flipper Pinball Association is available! Jump on it!

    Ritalin could be one of our sponsors.

    #384 4 years ago
    Quoted from Dbaum88:

    See?

    See? This is the typical elitist attitude that will keep pinball SMALL. I can't become a top 100 player overnight, just as very few of you did. The IFPA should want inclusion; to continue to grow our hobby. Josh should know this better than anyone.
    Take Sleethering's comment - "adults whining about scores.". Thats what YOU all do constantly. It's just when a top 2300 player complains that the top 100 players smile smugly and say stop complaining, play better.
    If you keep up this attitude long enough, it will be back to 100 guys in a room playing for $50.

    I don't see anything in the new IFPA rules that unfairly systematically keeps top players at the top and keeps others out. I also think the new rules are more inclusive.

    I used to run tournaments at a bar every two weeks. They started to get popular and our turnouts got larger and larger and I had some top level players attending. Regardless, most of them were not for wpprs because under the old rules of "periodic" tournaments, they became worthless after more than around 4 tournaments (base value of 6.25). If I was doing those tournaments today, each one would be worth around 10 - 20 points.

    Also importantly, and something I brought up to IFPA years ago, the old system was bad "for business". In the CA Bay Area, if I wanted to be a point whore, I could simply hop from venue to venue and run one annual at each, with a side tourney, for max value, then run one "periodic" tournament for max value). Conversely, at that same bar, the bar owner donated prizes (food/drink) and I had a relationship with the operator who kept the games in top shape (even attended the majority of the events so we had an on-hand tech), and he made money. The players got a regular place to play with good machines. No hassles with directions. No headache to "break-in" yet another new location or deal with a new manager/owner and operator either of which might be a dick. It's so much better now with each event being standalone even if the guaranteed base value payday isn't there anymore.

    #414 4 years ago
    Quoted from Dbaum88:

    I appreciate this response. Thank you.
    I didn't mean to attack anyone, particularly you. But its been frustrating. I'm no great player, but I am improving and was enjoying moving up the ranks...albeit slowly. It'll probably take me 6 months to get back to 2300 but thats fine. I just hope I can keep my measly points next time and hope to break the 1000 barrier someday. It's just frustrating watching my points slip away that I already earned.

    Well, one way to speed it up is to run a tournament and do well in it.

    I'm pretty good at the former, not so good at the latter.

    Hey Josh, in talking with some people, they really get into the analytics. How about some charts and graphs and stuff? And some "achievements" would also be cool.

    #415 4 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    Josh, you know I run TPL, but also the Tucson bi-weekly. I opened the ATL H2H records and was instantly jealous. Seriously, 12-14 players every 2 weeks. We get 5-8 every 2 weeks, but it's grown from the 3-5 we were getting earlier this year. Dude, Dbaum, keep hitting those up. Those events are going to end up with a huge total points value in your state. You are solidly 5th of 14 in several of the events and look at the INTL rankings of the players finishing ahead of you. You pick off one of those guys every now and then and before you know it you will be right there with your numbers.

    Make sure to advertise your tournaments in every local paper that has a free events listing section. Make small signs and stick them on all the backglasses of the venue. Collect emails from attendees and offer to spam them when an event is coming up. Start a wordpress blog to post results. Meetup is also a good option but is around $60 for 6 months, IIRC.

    #417 4 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    Honestly, the location we currently use for the bi-weekly sucks for getting new eyes. It's got a pretty good bank of 4 machines though, so we are happy to support it. All of the players we have gained are ones I know and have played with (against?) at the monthlies at the 30 pin location we all started at (D&D). Actually, that's not entirely true. We have one new player who walked into D&D during a league event and has taken hook, line, and sinker. He's a cool person and a good player.
    Now, with the second location for our bi-weekly we will have access to many more eyes. Roller hockey and indoor soccer on alternating days, so a new set of traffic every hour every afternoon-evening of the day. Decent bar with good food. I will have large signs too. I already have a FB page for the event, but didn't really think about free events sections in the papers. Will look into that. The populations is certainly there, now it's just getting people aware and interested.

    The papers don't always work overnight, but they definitely helped with growth. Twice my events got "featured" status. Once in the East Bay Express and another time on a very popular site called SF Fun Cheap. A basic web site that explains how the tournament works is also very helpful because 1st timers are generally very intimidated.

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