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(Topic ID: 104676)

WPPR formula change for 2015!


By ifpapinball

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 443 posts
  • 65 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by desertT1
  • Topic is favorited by 13 Pinsiders

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    #251 5 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    Are weeklies/bi-weeklies considered a tournament or a league when it comes to submiting them ahead of time? Whopper Wednesdays in BC can be the example here. They don't have recent events, so I can really investigate on the IFPA calendar.
    I just got word that a local place is willing to let me and another player help maintain their few pins so that we can bring in a few small events a month. If it's one a month, I can see that being addeda head of time, but if it's a regular thing (like 2nd and 4th Wednesday), it seems like it might fall in between a league and a monthly. It won't be a set roster. Whoever shows up, will play.
    Just looking for advise how to do things properly.

    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    If you have to join something ahead of time and it requires mandatory attendance to multiple events, we would consider that a league.
    If results are being submitted based on the activity from that evening, and anyone can show up at the it leisure week to week or month to month, then we consider those tournaments.
    Your example sounds like a typical weekly or monthly tournament which would have to be on the calendar ahead of time to be endorsed.

    After reading Bob's latest post on IFPA breaking down different events and how they grade out, I think I forgot a detail in my last question. In single elimination, does it matter if it's one game or best of 3?

    8 player, single elim, single game, longest path is 3.

    8 player, single elim, best of 3, longest path is 9.

    So it could be either 12% or 36% depending on the number of best-of, right?

    #252 5 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    http://www.ifpapinball.com/guide-to-wppr-5-0-making-your-event-count
    Posted this question from the website:
    How would limited qualifying with 36 players followed by top 16 double elimation tournament best 2 out of 3 games both brackets fair (17 total matches in the playoffs)?

    image-4.jpg 85 KB

    Need to know the following:

    How many games are used during qualification?
    Are players limited by attempts?
    Do players use high score or cumulative points during qualification?

    So far, your Base value is 18 (36 players / 2).
    Your Grade will be impacted by your qualification games. If you can get to 25 games, you can earn 100%.
    Based on your picture, I counted 17 games in the playoff. So I am going to assume you used 4 games during qualification with the best score being used. So that brings us to 21 (17 playoffs + 4 qualifying) games used.

    So your grade is 0.84 (21 games getting 4% each).

    So your base value would be 15.12 based on my calculations. (18 * .84)

    Marcus

    #253 5 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    Need to know the following:
    How many games are used during qualification?
    Are players limited by attempts?
    Do players use high score or cumulative points during qualification?
    So far, your Base value is 18 (36 players / 2).
    Your Grade will be impacted by your qualification games. If you can get to 25 games, you can earn 100%.
    Based on your picture, I counted 18 games in the playoff. So I am going to assume you used 4 games during qualification with the best score being used. So that brings us to 22 (18 playoffs + 4 qualifying) games used.
    So your grade is 0.88 (22 games getting 4% each).
    So your base value would be 15.84 based on my calculations. (18 * .88)
    Marcus

    Sorry Marcus.

    12 games qualifying one attempt.
    For Qualifying Each game gets points by high score (highest to lowest). Scott Danesi's tournament software.
    Top 16 based on cumulative points on the 12 games via Scott Danesi's tournament software.
    Playoffs 16 player double elimination with top 2 in each moving on. They play best 2 out of 3 games on a 7-5-3-1 point system.

    Hope that helps.

    #254 5 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    After reading Bob's latest post on IFPA breaking down different events and how they grade out, I think I forgot a detail in my last question. In single elimination, does it matter if it's one game or best of 3?

    Yes, it matters.

    If you do a single elimination, then each match would only add 1 game to game count.
    If you ran a best 2 out of 3, then each match would add 3 games to the game count.

    Quoted from desertT1:

    8 player, single elim, single game, longest path is 3.
    8 player, single elim, best of 3, longest path is 9.
    So it could be either 12% or 36% depending on the number of best-of, right?

    Correct.

    Marcus

    #255 5 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Sorry Marcus.
    12 games qualifying one attempt.
    For Qualifying Each game gets points by high score (highest to lowest). Scott Danesi's tournament software.
    Top 16 based on cumulative points on the 12 games via Scott Danesi's tournament software.
    Playoffs 16 player double elimination with top 2 in each moving on. They play best 2 out of 3 games on a 7-5-3-1 point system.
    Hope that helps.

    Then you have a total of 29 significant games used in this tournament.

    That makes the tournament worth 18.00 base points.

    Players: 36
    Games: 12 qualification games + 17 playoffs games = 29 total games
    Grade: 29 * 0.04 = 1.16

    Since 1.16 is greater than 1.0, we drop down to Max value of 1.0

    Alogorithm: (36/2) * 1.0 = 18*1.0 = 18.00

    Marcus

    #256 5 years ago

    Everything Marcus says is 100% correct

    #257 5 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    Then you have a total of 29 significant games used in this tournament.
    That makes the tournament worth 18.00 base points.
    Players: 36
    Games: 12 qualification games + 17 playoffs games = 29 total games
    Grade: 29 * 0.04 = 1.16
    Since 1.16 is greater than 1.0, we drop down to Max value of 1.0
    Alogorithm: (36/2) * 1.0 = 18*1.0 = 18.00
    Marcus

    Cool. Thanks Marcus. Tom.

    #258 5 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    Yes, it matters.
    If you do a single elimination, then each match would only add 1 game to game count.If you ran a best 2 out of 3, then each match would add 3 games to the game count.
    Correct.
    Marcus

    Thank you.

    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    Everything Marcus says is 100% correct

    And, thank you.

    I think this is going to be a very fun little bi-weekly event. Won't be over in a flash, but won't take all night either.

    #259 5 years ago

    There's no difference between a 2-player game and a 4-player game for TGP calculation, correct?

    I'm going to try to calculate the TGP for these hypothetical events, all with 24 players:

    Event A: Each player plays in six 4-person matches (6 different games). The player rotation is generated ahead of time to minimize the number of times players face each other. Players receive 4 points for 1st, 3 for 2nd, 2 for 3rd, 1 for 4th. Player's points are tallied at the end of the night, and they are ranked accordingly.

    Event B: Each person plays in eight 2-player matches. Matches are generated before the event to ensure that nobody faces the same person twice. Games are drawn from a hat. For each match, the winner gets a 1, and the loser gets a 0. Player's points are tallied at the end of the night, and they are ranked accordingly.

    Event C: Event B is repeated 3 times, over 3 months, so that each member plays each other exactly once. However, the final event would only have 7 matches, because there are only 23 "other players".

    Event G: Each player does 9 "holes" of PinGolf, on 9 different machines. Traditional golf scoring applies.

    Is this correct?:

    Event A: TGP = 24% (6*4%)
    Event B: TGP = 32% (8*4%)
    Event C: TGP = 92% (23*4%)
    Event G: TGP = 36% (9*4%)

    I just want to make sure I'm not missing some nuance. Thanks!

    #260 5 years ago

    That all looks correct to me . . . and there is no difference with respect to TGP based on how many players worth of scores you are comparing for the game played (whether that be 1 other player, 3 other players, or comparing one score to all other participants in the tournament).

    #261 5 years ago

    Yep, thinking this through, I think that there's no real advantage to 2-player games, in terms of WPPR points. There may be combinations of league size and machine count where head-to-head could work better, but that's logistics.

    #262 5 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    There's no difference between a 2-player game and a 4-player game for TGP calculation, correct?

    Correct. Each player is playing one significant game regardless of the number of opponents.

    Quoted from swampfire:

    I'm going to try to calculate the TGP for these hypothetical events, all with 24 players:
    Event A: Each player plays in six 4-person matches (6 different games). The player rotation is generated ahead of time to minimize the number of times players face each other. Players receive 4 points for 1st, 3 for 2nd, 2 for 3rd, 1 for 4th. Player's points are tallied at the end of the night, and they are ranked accordingly.
    Event B: Each person plays in eight 2-player matches. Matches are generated before the event to ensure that nobody faces the same person twice. Games are drawn from a hat. For each match, the winner gets a 1, and the loser gets a 0. Player's points are tallied at the end of the night, and they are ranked accordingly.
    Event C: Event B is repeated 3 times, over 3 months, so that each member plays each other exactly once. However, the final event would only have 7 matches, because there are only 23 "other players".
    Event G: Each player does 9 "holes" of PinGolf, on 9 different machines. Traditional golf scoring applies.
    Is this correct?:
    Event A: TGP = 24% (6*4%)
    Event B: TGP = 32% (8*4%)
    Event C: TGP = 92% (23*4%)
    Event G: TGP = 36% (9*4%)
    I just want to make sure I'm not missing some nuance. Thanks!

    These look good to me. Although Event C seems like a league and I'm not 100% sure if leagues will be weighed differently.

    Marcus

    #263 5 years ago

    These would all apply to a league. I'm trying to weigh some options for next year (these are just a few). Event A represents what we did for 2014.

    My understanding was that a league meet (or meets) is the same as a tournament, in WPPR terms.

    #264 5 years ago

    There's no difference between calling something a league or tournament.

    The data gets graded the same way.

    2 months later
    #265 5 years ago

    I just created this event for speed running

    https://pinside.com/pinball/events/pinball-speed-run-finals-2015

    and now i'm a little worried it doesn't conform to the new system depending on how you view the restriction of "timed game"

    On the IFPA rules page

    "The TGP only considers games of 3 or more balls in the game count, with the exception of the Pin-Golf format where players can possibly hit their target score in fewer than 3 balls. 1 ball games or any timed games will not be included in the TGP calculation. "

    I was wondering if you would consider a speed run to a pin golf objective a "timed game"? My thought, and hope, is that the primary purpose of a speed run is to make the pin golf objective and the secondary metric is the time that you make that pin golf objective in. their for it's not a timed game but a pin golf objective that uses time as an additional differentiator.

    #266 5 years ago
    Quoted from fna_royam:

    and now i'm a little worried it doesn't conform to the new system depending on how you view the restriction of "timed game"

    This kind of format is no problem.

    The "timed game" that isn't acceptable is:

    "We set up Attack From Mars, and everyone got 5 minutes of unlimited play to score as many points as they could."

    At that point capping the time available reduces the amount that player skill actually impacts the result.

    #267 5 years ago

    Just curious when the new formula is going live and when the switch will be flipped?

    I would like to see how things are shaping up and where I stand as I make plans for travel this year.

    #268 5 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Just curious when the new formula is going live and when the switch will be flipped?
    I would like to see how things are shaping up and where I stand as I make plans for travel this year.

    I'm curious too. January is a lot busier than I was prepared for. So far, we've had:

    1 bi-weekly
    1 monthly
    1 league event
    1 'annual' style event. 19 players and will grade out to 100%.

    Tonight, we have the beginning of a 3-day qualification/16 player bracket finals event. Tough to get away for that one, so not sure if I'll make it. Qualifying goes until Friday, so maybe I'll head up after the work week is over and try to make a run.

    Also have another bi-weekly tonight.

    So far I've come in 5th in the league event, won the first bi-weekly, let's not talk about the monthly (13 of 19, ouch), and came in 4th in the one I labeled 'annual'. To say I'm very anxious to see where I currently sit is almost an understatement. I'm off to a much better start than last year with my first win ever (only been doing this ~a year) in a non-league event, and did a decent job against some good players in the big event.

    #269 5 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    This kind of format is no problem.
    The "timed game" that isn't acceptable is:
    "We set up Attack from Mars, and everyone got 5 minutes of unlimited play to score as many points as they could."
    At that point capping the time available reduces the amount that player skill actually impacts the result.

    What about games like safe cracker that only have timed play? or other games that kill the fipper and end the ball if you run of time.

    #270 5 years ago

    This takes more give-a-shit than I have.

    #271 5 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Just curious when the new formula is going live and when the switch will be flipped?

    I would like to see how things are shaping up and where I stand as I make plans for travel this year.

    We're getting closer. Test site has everything pre-2015 implemented (I think). Working hard to make sure everything is working properly, and then we'll try to throw the 2015 results and see what happens.

    I can tell you that you're 339th under the old system, and 347th under the new system.

    #272 5 years ago
    Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

    What about games like Safe Cracker that only have timed play? or other games that kill the fipper and end the ball if you run of time.

    We won't recommend the usage of those games, and personally you'll never see a tournament I run use those kind of machines, but we would still endorse those events.

    #273 5 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    We won't recommend the usage of those games, and personally you'll never see a tournament I run use those kind of machines, but we would still endorse those events.

    But games that have modes with timed play and when that mode ends / times out and balls drain then you go back to playing your ball are fine?

    Also on the Spinball games if hold a flipper up for about 1 min it will kill the power to them till the next ball (likely they where not able to work out hold power on the flippers)

    #274 5 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    We're getting closer. Test site has everything pre-2015 implemented (I think). Working hard to make sure everything is working properly, and then we'll try to throw the 2015 results and see what happens.
    I can tell you that you're 339th under the old system, and 347th under the new system.

    Do you have an ETA for when you are going to throw the trigger?

    #275 5 years ago

    crying-computer.gif

    #276 5 years ago

    Overall I like the changes. My only bummer is that Time-attack style events are penalized. In fact I was conceiving an event with three sets of the same games (2 each) and running a tournament with a slalom-style. Players play a timed match, swap games and the highest combined score wins that match.

    I disagree on skill being diminished, particularly if enough rounds are played. It requires formulating a strategy that can be quickly executed and then doing it under a lot of pressure. The format often favors flow players and punishes control players, but the good players could always change up as needed.

    At the last one I ran there were around 30 players in a double-elim. It was Patrik Bodin, Hal Erickson and Andrei Massenkoff in the top 3. There is some variation in the results but no more or less than I see in other smaller, one-day events. And with additional rounds, swiss pairings, round robin, etc. the luck factor would not be an issue.

    A huge advantage of time-attack events is the game needs minimal modification from stock and tournaments can be run within very predictable time periods (the aforementioned tournament only took about 3.5 hours!). Players never have a massive wait. It's also exciting to watch (a consideration for streaming and TV).

    #277 5 years ago
    Quoted from jonnyo:

    It's also exciting to watch (a consideration for streaming and TV).

    Yeah, gotta say, one of the most enjoyable things I've seen streamed in the last year was the THUNDERTILT! where they had the thunderstruck targets tied in to tilt the game on an ACDC...ball times usually somewhere in the 10s range lol.

    #278 5 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Yeah, gotta say, one of the most enjoyable things I've seen streamed in the last year was the THUNDERTILT! where they had the thunderstruck targets tied in to tilt the game on an ACDC...ball times usually somewhere in the 10s range lol.

    Now that sounds like fun!

    #279 5 years ago

    Hey all, I was interested in getting some opinions from people not playing in a monthly (2nd Tuesday of every month) I will be running in Syracuse, NY. Unbiased feedback from fellow pinball fans.
    The first tournament I plan on running this year would be.....
    -Everyone has unlimited qualifying attempts from 430pm-830pm.
    -Your top 3 scores on each machine (2 machines at bar) counting toward your final tally.
    -Top 4 ranked players at 830pm will go onto the Finals,
    -Best of 3 semi's. #1 seed picks first game and play order. #2 seed plays other game, and picks order). 2nd game in series is other pin.
    -Final where best 6 out of 11 wins (first to 6 wins). Higher seed picks first game and order, must alternate pins after that.
    So totals for WPPR purposes would be...
    6 Meaningful games during qualifying
    14 meaningful games during semi's and finals
    4 hours of open qualifying
    = 24% + 56% + 4 % = 84%
    Average has been 13.5 players showing up for the last 2 tournaments of 2014. So lets say 13 players show up (hopefully more)
    6.5*.84=5.46 WPPR's + (hopefully) at least 1 point for ranking and rating strengths of players involved. Total value of tournament = 6.46 for winner.
    ----
    The question I am most interested in hearing opinions on would be, how do I rank the top 6 scores for each person? Games will be TOTAN and TWD.
    -Add all 3 scores for each machine together, give everyone a ranking on each machine.
    Example 100 million on TWD twice and 50 million would be a score of 250 million, and that would be your value
    -Average of the best 3 games.
    Example 100 million twice and 50 million would be an average of 83.3333 million per game, and that would be your value

    Thanks for the input ladies and gents
    https://www.facebook.com/events/941401782538519/

    #280 5 years ago
    Quoted from funtimewithdave:

    The question I am most interested in hearing opinions on would be, how do I rank the top 6 scores for each person? Games will be TOTAN and TWD.
    -Add all 3 scores for each machine together, give everyone a ranking on each machine.
    Example 100 million on TWD twice and 50 million would be a score of 250 million, and that would be your value
    -Average of the best 3 games.
    Example 100 million twice and 50 million would be an average of 83.3333 million per game, and that would be your value

    There is no difference between these two scenarios. #1 is just 3x larger than #2, regardless of their scores.

    How are you planning to normalize between the two games?

    #281 5 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    There is no difference between these two scenarios. #1 is just 3x larger than #2, regardless of their scores.

    haha. I want to delete that now that it looks so silly. I need my coffee i guess.
    So ad all three together is what ill do, less math.

    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    How are you planning to normalize between the two games?

    Thats the real question I should be asking. How to normalize games.
    PAPA Rankings where first is 100 2nd 90 3rd 85 4th 84.....
    or
    First is 1 point, 2nd is 2 points..... and take 4 lowest totals

    #282 5 years ago

    If I were you I would try to avoid doing addition then averages on all 6 scores and then comparing them to the other players. A suggestion would be to have scores on both machines match up to points from 1 - 10. For example on the walking dead if you score less than 2 million it's one point. Score between 2 and 5 million its 2 points. Between 5 and 8 it's 3 points. 8 million to 12 million its 4 points all the way up to score over 100million it's 10 points. Added bonus of if you score the max amount in 2 balls you get a bonus point, score the max in one ball you get 2 bonus points. You can set up the tiered scoring so it's roughly even between games and as far as addition goes your dealing with 6 scores of between 1 and 12 instead of full addition of everyone's score. Anyway I tried that scoring method last year with about 20 people and it seemed to be strait forward and understandable.

    #283 5 years ago
    Quoted from funtimewithdave:

    Hey all, I was interested in getting some opinions from people not playing in a monthly (2nd Tuesday of every month) I will be running in Syracuse, NY. Unbiased feedback from fellow pinball fans.
    The first tournament I plan on running this year would be.....
    -Everyone has unlimited qualifying attempts from 430pm-830pm.
    -Your top 3 scores on each machine (2 machines at bar) counting toward your final tally.
    -Top 4 ranked players at 830pm will go onto the Finals,
    -Best of 3 semi's. #1 seed picks first game and play order. #2 seed plays other game, and picks order). 2nd game in series is other pin.
    -Final where best 6 out of 11 wins (first to 6 wins). Higher seed picks first game and order, must alternate pins after that.
    So totals for WPPR purposes would be...
    6 Meaningful games during qualifying
    14 meaningful games during semi's and finals
    4 hours of open qualifying
    = 24% + 56% + 4 % = 84%
    Average has been 13.5 players showing up for the last 2 tournaments of 2014. So lets say 13 players show up (hopefully more)
    6.5*.84=5.46 WPPR's + (hopefully) at least 1 point for ranking and rating strengths of players involved. Total value of tournament = 6.46 for winner.
    ----
    The question I am most interested in hearing opinions on would be, how do I rank the top 6 scores for each person? Games will be TOTAN and TWD.
    -Add all 3 scores for each machine together, give everyone a ranking on each machine.
    Example 100 million on TWD twice and 50 million would be a score of 250 million, and that would be your value
    -Average of the best 3 games.
    Example 100 million twice and 50 million would be an average of 83.3333 million per game, and that would be your value
    Thanks for the input ladies and gents
    https://www.facebook.com/events/941401782538519/

    Josh could say for sure, but I think your calculations are wrong. If it is "unlimited qualifying" then you only get 1% per hour, and you MUST reduce the field by at least 50% going into playoffs. Number of meaningful games in this case does not apply. So 56% for your playoffs and 4% for qualifying = 60%. Am I right?

    IIRC, to get it to add up the way you want it, you would have to say "Everybody gets 3 games on each of the 2 pins and every games counts".

    #284 5 years ago

    I actually think funtimewithdave's calculations are correct and the 6 games in unlimited qualifying would be counted as meaningful games. I would say though that the 4% for unlimited qualifying, while technically might be correct, seems in practice to be not really unlimited. I'm saying that because in the scenario of having 14 people play 3 games on each machine with average game time being 5 minutes per game it seems unlikely that people would have much time to play more than 3 games on each machine. If you have less people perhaps but if you get much more than 14 people then 3 per machine is probably your limit. Not really a big deal though as its only 4 percent of the total. If LOTR_breath is correct then you should change the format to limited qualifying and make it 6 games per person as in that case they definitely would count as tgp.

    #285 5 years ago
    Quoted from fna_royam:

    ...all the way up to score over 100million it's 10 points. Added bonus of if you score the max amount in 2 balls you get a bonus point, score the max in one ball you get 2 bonus points. You can set up the tiered scoring so it's roughly even between games and as far as addition goes your dealing with 6 scores of between 1 and 12 instead of full addition of everyone's score. Anyway I tried that scoring method last year with about 20 people and it seemed to be strait forward and understandable.

    I like that idea. Did it work well with people new to pinball? That is usually at least half my turnout. Were they receptive to the scoring system?

    Quoted from LOTR_breath:

    IIRC, to get it to add up the way you want it, you would have to say "Everybody gets 3 games on each of the 2 pins and every games counts".

    Yes that is how the tournament will be run. Everyone in the unlimited qualifying portion has to play 6 games, but entries are only limited by the time frame. They can play 30 games if they want, and there isnt people in line. The reason there is unlimited qualifying is to get that extra 4% for having it open for 4 hours. When you have "unlimited qualifying" now, the max points you can get from meaningful games is 80% (20 games). I do plan on having every participant play the 6 games. If they play less, they will be at a severe scoring dis-advantage. Hence those first 6 games all counting, and only 4 people making it to the finals where the other "up to" 14 games will be played. If it was only a 7 or 8 person tournament, id have to cut it to 3 people making the finals. 6 or 5, you would have to cut it to 2 people making finals.

    #286 5 years ago

    Yes the scoring system was easily understood by the new players. It was one of the first tournaments I ran in DC so we had a lot of new players but they picked up on it fine.

    #287 5 years ago
    Quoted from LOTR_breath:

    Josh could say for sure, but I think your calculations are wrong. If it is "unlimited qualifying" then you only get 1% per hour, and you MUST reduce the field by at least 50% going into playoffs. Number of meaningful games in this case does not apply. So 56% for your playoffs and 4% for qualifying = 60%. Am I right?

    Number of meaningful games apply regardless of whether there is Unlimited Qualifying OR Limited Qualifying.

    The only difference is that the time component is added to the mix if there are unlimited opportunities to keep trying.

    So the difference between simply playing every game three times (TGP = 12%), and play those three games as many times as you want for 4 hours, but only your best 3 games count would be TGP of 16%. The idea being giving the additional chances for players to play more attempts and show off their skill makes the event more valuable then limiting those chances to display their skill.

    The only potential issue we may run into, is something like this:

    "Players will have 2 hours of unlimited qualifying, and the best score on each of the 50 qualifying machines will be includes in the standings."

    At some point there's sort of a natural law to how many games you can possibly expect players to get through in the time allotted. If we see people trying to exploit the system by 'counting 25 games played' but due to the short qualifying period that wasn't even possible, we'll step in and deal with those situations.

    It's by far the most popular question I get:

    "How do I make my tournament more valuable, but still keeping my tournament to only 2 hours long?"

    At some point you just can't. The whole idea of the new system is to reward increased value to the organizers that are putting in the time to run longer events where more games can be played, thus leading to a more 'quality' result.

    #288 5 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    The only potential issue we may run into, is something like this:
    "Players will have 2 hours of unlimited qualifying, and the best score on each of the 50 qualifying machines will be includes in the standings."
    At some point there's sort of a natural law to how many games you can possibly expect players to get through in the time allotted.

    Agreed. I ran into that looking at the percentages of trying to get up to 25. So I cut off at 20 games, and thats even with the best of 11 finals. Depending on the feedback, I may have to cut that down in the coming months. For a Tuesday, monthly event, I dont mind it losing that slight amount of value.

    4 months later
    #289 5 years ago

    I am VERY DISAPPOINTED.

    I am a newish IFPA player with some success here in my local leagues and tourneys. I watch the points closely and have enjoyed moving up in the rankings, slowly but surely.

    NOW - IFPA has subtracted three points from my scores (scores I was already awarded months ago) and I have dropped some 250 spots! This is ridiculous. It has been retroactive as even points I earned and was awarded in January have been reduced! For example, in Jan., I won first place in a league and was awarded over 6 points. Now that has indiscriminately been reduced to 4.79 points!

    This sucks....why bother???? If you can just subtract points whenever you feel. Player # 16180.

    #290 5 years ago
    Quoted from Dbaum88:

    subtracted three points from my scores (scores I was already awarded months ago) and I have dropped some 250 spots!

    I'd be more concerned about how it bears for your SCS ranking than the actual point value.

    I have probably lost close to 50 points between them nerfing the launch parties value, and then the overall formula change. I keep moving in and out of the top 100, at least three times since March because it seems like point values keep getting shifted around and people move up and down all over the place.

    Player search says I'm 103rd. Overall/Top 100 list says I'm 101st. Who knows which is correct and what it will say tomorrow.

    #291 5 years ago

    It's all relative...to me, 3 points is a lot. I was ranked in top 2300, now fell back to 2555. I've only been doing leagues for one year and tourneys for 6 months. I should move up steadily based on my increased participation but to have my already earned scores significantly reduced is very demoralizing in terms of caring about this process...(which I had been enjoying heretofore).

    and yes, I do play and enjoy playing with my friends but the point process is there and aids the friendly competition angle...

    Now, why bother? If my points will get taken away again...

    #292 5 years ago

    I hear stamp collecting is fun....

    #293 5 years ago

    You're going to have to answer that for yourself. I decided to make a deliberate point to not run tournaments or my own league this year to see how things shake out. The only tournament I've gone out of my way to play in was Texas Pinball Festival...I was there anyways, and that was primarily because I was trying super hard to get an A division win on something other than EM's....got 2nd place on a modern bank and lost to a friend...can't really ask for more than that.

    My suggestion is unless you're specifically chasing the SCS and trying to qualify for it, just chill and ignore the points, because frankly, it's a wasted effort to worry about overall rank until you get some full value wins under your belt. IFPA has severely screwed up the ability of people that aren't in major pinball communities that can run full-value tournaments every month to catch up in terms of rankings for the next few years. The extended decay to 4 years along with the fact that the vast majority of tourneys are not worth what they were in the past makes it VERY hard to have a "fair" ranking until all these old results decay out....in four years.

    If you really want to chase the points, and nobody in your area is holding full value 25 point tournaments, you're going to have to run them yourself, and try and pull in enough people to get those points to be competitive. Good luck finding 50 people... I know I can't, and we have a dedicated core of league and tourney players here. Using my profile as an example, you need an overall average of 16 points a tournament right now to get to the top 100.... so 32 player tournaments, full value, winning 20 tournaments...?

    http://www.ifpapinball.com/player.php?p=10774

    #294 5 years ago

    Okay thanks...

    #295 5 years ago

    The WPPR 5.1 update was announced a month ago due to certain formats/tournaments gaming the system. You can see the changes here: http://www.ifpapinball.com/wppr-v5-1-details

    I'm guessing it's change #1 that's finally being implemented and that lowered the points value of your league. It doesn't happen very often that retroactive changes are made, but in this case IFPA had to do it. If you want some of the back story there's an interview with Josh Sharpe in Coast2Coast Pinball: http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-163-sharpe-shooting-or-tatsunori-naruke-for-the-win_47206

    We've all been nerfed on wpprs at some point*. As usual the solution is to play more pinball and that's not a bad solution at all

    * Don't get me started on how the entire SF bay area counted as one "city" for the sake of launch parties and how CAX 2013 suddenly put on a "launch party" in the marco booth that halved points from the launch party that people had spent actual time and money to organize. I guess to people from Chicago Santa Clara and Oakland are the same place

    #296 5 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    The extended decay to 4 years

    Everything Frax has said is 100% correct . . . except this

    We ended up keeping things at the 100/75/50 decay over 3 years.

    Can't wait to see how WPPR v6.0 will impact all the people that don't care about WPPR's

    #297 5 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    The extended decay to 4 years along with the fact that the vast majority of tourneys are not worth what they were in the past makes it VERY hard to have a "fair" ranking until all these old results decay out....in four years.

    I disagree. I think that next year rankings should be fairly stable as the latest wppr 4.0 tournaments being to degrade at 50%. At that point their results will look like wppr 5.x results points-wise.

    #298 5 years ago
    Quoted from haugstrup:

    I'm guessing it's change #1 that's finally being implemented and that lowered the points value of your league

    Yup

    (and funny enough it's a change where it's actually not possible for anyone to gain points, points will only be lost by everyone due to this change. We've actually found a way to piss off EVERYONE all at once)

    #299 5 years ago

    I got more than "halved" from the launch party nerf.... over 25 points to 8.8?

    Sounds like you guys got the DP though.

    #300 5 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    Everything Frax has said is 100% correct . . . except this
    We ended up keeping things at the 100/75/50 decay over 3 years.
    Can't wait to see how WPPR v6.0 will impact all the people that don't care about WPPR's

    Okay, it will still take roughly three years for old results to decay out so....meh.

    I think you troll this board as much as I do, given your average response time.

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