(Topic ID: 65951)

WPC - voltage drop between driver board and game ROM

By Collin

10 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Collin
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

#1 10 years ago

In my ongoing attempts to get Getaway working, I thought I'd hit an impasse tonight when, after replacing most of the power connectors in the backbox and header pins on the board, my game was still resetting. (There were a couple connectors I hadn't done on account of running out of parts.)

I got to this step in PinWiki's write-up: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Poor_Connections_between_the_Power.2FDriver_board.2C_the_CPU.2C_and_other_PCBs

I'm showing 4.85v on the test point on the driver board, but only reading 4.65v on pin 32 of the game ROM. This would indicate that I've likely got a bad connection at J114 and/or J210.

What I want to know is, aside from replacing J114 and J210, is there anything else I should replace or test at the same time while I have the boards out?

#2 10 years ago

4.85 is too low. You need 4.95 or higher.. preferably higher.

Look at your transformer secondary voltage connector, the one on the transformer that brings the voltage up to the driver board.

Look at J101, the input voltage connector. This guy can sometimes burn.

I would definitely look at J114 and J210, if you're getting a .2 drop between CPU and driver, even if you had rock solid 5.0 on the driver board, the drop would still likely lead to resets on the CPU board. You should only see a very negligible amount of drop from driver to CPU.. maybe .02 or .03 - not .2.

Look at C4. Look at C5. Look at the LM323.

#3 10 years ago

John, thanks for your help!

Quoted from johnwartjr:

4.85 is too low. You need 4.95 or higher.. preferably higher.
Look at your transformer secondary voltage connector, the one on the transformer that brings the voltage up to the driver board..

Is that the "cube" molex connector? That one seems to be in good shape.

Quoted from johnwartjr:

Look at J101, the input voltage connector. This guy can sometimes burn.

I've already replaced the header pins on that one, but am waiting on the female Molex pins to arrive to do the other side of the connector; that's on my list of stuff to finish, along with the ground connector. I'm hoping finishing those brings the voltage up on the driver board.

Quoted from johnwartjr:

I would definitely look at J114 and J210, if you're getting a .2 drop between CPU and driver, even if you had rock solid 5.0 on the driver board, the drop would still likely lead to resets on the CPU board. You should only see a very negligible amount of drop from driver to CPU.. maybe .02 or .03 - not .2.
Look at C4. Look at C5. Look at the LM323.

Yeah, PinWiki says .1v drop of bad, .2 v is insane. Is it likely the fact that the CPU is only getting 4.65 volts that's making the game crash?

#4 10 years ago

The game should be resetting at .85, honestly. You need to either fix your power driver board, or get a new one. Don't forget BR1, and BR2. BR1 is less likely to be the bad componant, as it's not directly involved, but I've seen it drain the 5v before.

#5 10 years ago

The +5 comes on the rectangular one, not the cube one.

Yes, I'd say the 4.65 is too low and is causing the reset.

The LM323 can be involved here. I just had one that was good at initial powerup, like 5.01, but after running for a 6 hour burn in test, it dropped to 4.91. J101 was tarnished, so I replaced it. Pulled C4 and C5, tested them with my cap tester, out of spec, replaced them with new parts that I tested first and were OK, fired it up, and my initial 5.01 had dropped to... 4.88!

Replaced the LM323 and now, it's good. Comes up at 5.01, and after a 4 hour burn in, still at 5.01. I'm content with that. Gonna let it go another 2 hours on the burn-in and check voltages again. This one is going on route, so it's important that it's rock solid.

From my experience, a bridge is good or bad - no such thing as marginal. It's just 4 diodes. Either it tests good, or it tests bad.

On your game, here's what I'd do

1) Replace the female plug that connects to J101 and retest voltages
2) If voltages are off, verify traces to/from J101, BR2, LM323, C4 and C5. Don't pull parts, just put your meter on continuity test, bust out your schematic, and verify everything is connected where it should be. Maybe reflow the solder points on them.
3) Test again. If still no bueno, inspect C4 and C5. Are they bulging at the ends? I've found that caps are RARELY the problem, and you stand a pretty good chance at damaging plated through holes swapping them out.

Unfortunately, there's no good way to test C4 or C5 without removing them. They don't test real well in circuit. So, even if you had a cap tester, you might not be able to get a good test on them in-circuit. So, if you're going to pull them to test them.. I typically replace them. But, I do a LOT of testing before I remove them.

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

I've found that caps are RARELY the problem, and you stand a pretty good chance at damaging plated through holes swapping them out.
Unfortunately, there's no good way to test C4 or C5 without removing them. They don't test real well in circuit. So, even if you had a cap tester, you might not be able to get a good test on them in-circuit. So, if you're going to pull them to test them.. I typically replace them. But, I do a LOT of testing before I remove them.

One way to avoid that is to clip the leads (if they're axial) and solder the new cap onto the existing leads with little pigtails. I don't even bother with guessing about caps if they're more than 15 years old, I just replace them.

#7 10 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

I don't even bother with guessing about caps if they're more than 15 years old, I just replace them.

Guilty of that myself but I like to solder and do board work....

As much as I like nice test equipment and a Cap tester would be sweet that same loot pays for a lot of bridges and caps. I like nothing more than replacing factory original components. They are not hacked up and once replaced should last another 15 or 20 years.

#8 10 years ago

And in most cases you need to remove the cap from circuit to test it. Do what defog says, just replace electrolytic caps when you have any suspect of the circuit.

#9 10 years ago

Thanks, guys! I did the last couple power connectors going to the driver board, and the connectors and header pins between the CPU and power/driver board.

IT WORKED!

The game no longer resets. I'm still showing 4.86 on the driver board, but I'm up to 4.85 (from 4.65) on the CPU.

I'll go ahead and order caps for the drive board, so if/when I pull it next, I can just do those. I'm actually really enjoying basic board repair work.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 17.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 22.50
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 28.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
 
$ 20.00
Cabinet - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 19.00
Electronics
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
 
$ 10.00
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
 
5,000 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Gilroy, CA
$ 120.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
G-Money Mods
 
$ 75.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
G-Money Mods
 
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Fort Lauderdale, FL
4,025 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
San Diego, CA
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 329.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 30.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
G-Money Mods
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Louisville, KY
From: $ 110.00
Playfield - Other
Arcade Upkeep
 
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 35.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
G-Money Mods
 
$ 225.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
 
From: $ 3.50
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 70.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RobTune
 
$ 109.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 20.00
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc-voltage-drop-between-driver-board-and-game-rom and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.