(Topic ID: 153741)

WPC resets with target hits


By SunMonkeyAZ

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by SunMonkeyAZ
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_20160315_192155814_(resized).jpg
IMG_20160315_191935183_(resized).jpg
IMG_20160315_181915510_(resized).jpg
Screen_Shot_2016-03-15_at_11.57.19_AM_(resized).png

#1 3 years ago

Hello all. I'm unsure where to go next. I have a Black Rose that was giving me resets. I've had the 5v repaired on the board (New BR, cap and regulator)and J115 re-pinned as the connector was burnt. Since resets continued I ordered Kahr's little guy to hopefully eliminate them. I fired up with his board and had two resets within a minute of starting a game. Before installing I could go maybe 30 min between resets and with GI connector J115 removed I could play with no resets. Removed daughterboard and was going to disconnect GI output connectors one by one to try and narrow it down. Found J120 had a couple wires not fully in that I had moved before. Cut off the ends and used my new .156 tool I didn't have before to seat them. Played for a while that way and had 3 resets within about an hour. Stayed aware and noticed each reset occurred when a certain standup bank was hit. (It's middle standups - green) Put daughterboard back in and played a full game 10min without a reset and green stayed lit on the daughterboard showing 5v stayed ok. No time to play for a longer period yet but confused as to why I had quick resets with daughterboard before fixing punched down wires on J120 (Using same 12v at some point?) and why a bank of targets would cause a reset or is it a coincidence? Also of note, the wire I moved was when I got the machine the brown that is pin 1 on J120 was punched down at pin5 which green uses at J121 so I moved it back to pin1. So I get resets with GI connected and middle standups hit. Not everytime they are hit but they seem to be last thing before a reset. Wondering if what I've noted here has come up before and someone can give some advice. Been through the pinwiki but get a little lost sometimes when I don't find steps that match what I'm experiencing. I'm still new at the troubleshooting/repair side of things. Thanks

#2 3 years ago

Can you trigger a reset simply by pushing the target with your hand? Consistently? I'd be investigating the wiring in the target area. Perhaps the switch wire is shorting to the GI when the target is hit hard enough.

Sounds like you've already eliminated 5v as your reset source. I'd move on from that.

#3 3 years ago

Had a reset today when hitting the lowest of the three middle targets. Everything in the area of the switch wires under the play field looks good. Nothing close to short on. Tested diodes on the switches just to check and all registered about 580. Could be something on the mpu board? Not sure how to test and troubleshoot this.

1 week later
#4 3 years ago

So confused as to next step. All the wiring under the playfield looks good. Doesn't seem to be any places where wires are close for shorts. The middle bank of targets loop to the top bank then out. The bottom bank has single wires (white-brown, white-red, white-orange) that head out to connectors then out of the playfield. Since it happens with middle and bottom banks from what I've experienced, it's not under playfield since wiring is separated until connectors. Correct? When a reset does happen it seems to be when I get a solid hit on one of the targets. Never a glancing hit. But not every solid one does it. Today happened with bottom-middle and bottom-bottom. I haven't found posts with a similar problem to reference if they're there. Is the voltage drop the only reason for a reset? If so, how do the targets fit in?

#5 3 years ago

Hello? Anything would help. Doesn't happen right away, but after 10 - 15min if that helps. Also yesterday had the playfield up to inspect and after re-seating a couple connectors and checking the target's switches for possible shorts, Davey Jones' locker went crazy the next time I powered up. It would open then close every couple of seconds. Powered off then on and continued. Powered down and gave a quick look under playfield to see if anything came loose/shorted. Looked ok and put back down and fired up and all was normal (other than the resets). Everything I find regarding resets points to board power or heavy draw components. Board fixed and still happening when they're hit and when they are hit it is not a time when any solenoids would fire. Has anybody seen this before? Something down line from targets? Could a intermittent short that happens with a good ball strike cause a reset? Maybe related to the Locker craziness? How would I test this? I don't want to go through re-pinning connectors and replacing components if I'm heading the complete opposite direction. Thanks if anyone happens to see this.

#6 3 years ago

Unplug the switches from the mpu board. Then see if the machine resets.
Check transformer plugs. Test voltages.

#7 3 years ago

Do the targets trigger any flashers when hit? If so, a short on the HV section could be causing it

#8 3 years ago

Dumb question, but could it be a slam tilt rather than a reset?

#9 3 years ago

Could be a bad diode on one of those standup targets.

#10 3 years ago

Or insulator on the target

#11 3 years ago

I would check the other switches in Target(s) Matrix to see if they are shorting on the GI. Maybe the Pop bumpers?

Screen_Shot_2016-03-15_at_11.57.19_AM_(resized).png

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from dudah:

Do the targets trigger any flashers when hit? If so, a short on the HV section could be causing it

Not that I could see. I manually hit them and I get the related sound and lamp lights for the target.

Quoted from alveolus:

Dumb question, but could it be a slam tilt rather than a reset?

Not a dumb question but I'll give a dumb answer. What are the signs of a slam tilt? Never actually seen one. Is there a display that it happened? What I get is everything goes off and game restarts. I couldn't find a clear answer as to what happens with a slam tilt other than game ends. If slam tilt and reset appear the same I'll look that way too.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Could be a bad diode on one of those standup targets.

I checked them with game off, still installed and seemed ok. Do I need to remove them to test accurately? Do the diodes only come into play when the target is hit? If so, since multiple targets cause it I figured it wouldn't be diodes. But I'm new here.

Quoted from hoby1:

Or insulator on the target

I'll give another dumb answer. I'm not clear as to the insulator's job. Any signs to look for?

#13 3 years ago

there's a switch on the back of the coin door, has a weight on one of the blades. Push the contacts together, see if you can get a slam tilt message. There's another switch to the left of the coin box on the floor of the cabinet, close that as well.

#14 3 years ago

Not a slam tilt. Tested with game started and manually triggering slam switch brought up slam tilt on display before resetting. I just get the reset. Will inspect other switches.

Did have Davey Jones opening and closing every couple seconds again. I wiggled wires at slam switch in bottom of cab and it stopped. Kept messing with wires and nothing strange happened. Coincidence? They are in different parts of the matrix. I'm trying things in switch test to see if anything odd comes up.

#15 3 years ago

Little update. I found in feeling around that the switch for the locker ramp would go in and out in test when I would give a little twist to the connector in the picture. In the connector the white-yellow wire was broke off in there. I could not get my punch down in there to re-punch because it was slightly melted. Since they were all parallel I cut the wires and spliced them with the crimps in the photo (Not great, but what I have on hand as a low volt guy). I played about 45 min. First reset after 25 then the second at the 45 and stopped. Both resets after hits to bottom yellow targets. Looked and saw this. I'm new at this but doesn't look like a healthy diode. I will replace in the next couple days and see what happens. Don't know why I didn't notice and replace before. I tested them but just didn't look too hard I guess.

IMG_20160315_181915510_(resized).jpg

IMG_20160315_191935183_(resized).jpg

IMG_20160315_192155814_(resized).jpg

#16 3 years ago

It looks like someone got too close to that diode with an iron.
But, that's not going to be the solution.
That diode can be open, in which case that switch would never register as closed.
That diode can be shorted, in which case you'd be having "phantom switch closures". i.e. Switch matrix issue.
That diode is an "isolation" diode. It keeps a columns strobe from back-feeding through a closed switch to other closed switches. Sounds funny...I assure you that is accurate.

A switch closing can't cause a reset (an actual reset vice slam tilt) unless it is shorting to another power source, like the 5VDC power. But, 5VDC power is only found under the PF at opto boards or other boards that have TTL logic on them.

BTW, taking that Z-Connector out was a good idea. Those things can cause inconsistent switch operation due to crappy connections.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#17 3 years ago

Replace that diode. Bend the Slam tilt switch away from the switch closure.

1 month later
#18 3 years ago

Update if anyone is interested. I replaced those ugly diodes on the yellow targets. Still had resets from the green. Once I received an order of a bunch of diodes I changed out the green target diodes. Removed all the solder to start clean and cut and re-stripped the wires. Did that nearly 3 weeks ago and not a single reset since. Don't play everyday and may 30-45 min each time but consistently had resets before, now not one. I understand the diodes shouldn't cause resets but maybe bad solder? Solid hits were shaking things loose and causing matrix issues? Could that cause resets? Seems to be good now but would like to know why. Also noticed lower pop bumper wasn't firing, switch wasn't making contact. Adjusted and now appears I'm working 100% for the first time. Thanks for everyone's input.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 87.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
From: $ 29.00
Boards
KAHR.US Circuits
$ 135.00
Lighting - Led
LED OCD
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 28.00
3,100 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
South Bend, IN
From: $ 16.95
$ 87.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside