(Topic ID: 192803)

WPC reset issue on Hurricane

By uncivil_engineer

6 years ago


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#1 6 years ago

I picked up a Hurricane over the weekend that is having the classic WPC reset issues once I reconnected the Ferris wheel. For those of you who don't know how the Ferris wheel works, it is switched on/off by a 12v relay on the board, and it is powered off the 50v AC power through plug J104/105 on the power supply board. In test mode, and game mode, when the Ferris wheel runs more than about 10 seconds, the game resets. The game seems to run fine when the flippers are activated.

The 5v power supply looks to be pretty borderline. When I measure the voltage at the + terminal of BR2, I am only getting 5 volts DC. According to pinwiki, this should be at least 9 volts. The associated cap looks pretty good as I am only seeing about a 100mv AC RMS (measured with a good fluke) at the same +terminal of BR2. At the test point on the power/driver board, I get 4.85 to 4.90 volts. My 12 volt line is running high at 14.5 volts. Should I go ahead and replace BR2? What else should I check before I start taking the board apart?

#2 6 years ago

I very rarely, if ever, change BR2. Biggest culprits are connectors J101, J102, J114 on the power driver board and J210 on the CPU. Reseat those, turn the game on, check the DC voltage at TP2 and and see if the problem goes away. If so, you'll want to change out the headers and connectors eventually. You want the DC voltage as close to 5VDC as possible. Typically 4.9V and below will be an issue.

Next is replacing the filter caps at C4 and C5. Those go out of spec and can't filter the +5V causing resets. If you change the caps at C4 and C5, check the voltage at TP2 and see if it's better.

If all that fails to get the DC voltage close to 5V, change the 5V regulator with one from EZSbc http://www.ezsbc.com/index.php/featured-products-list-home-page/psu5.html#.WV0mIITys-U it has a small potentiometer to slightly adjust the output by adding some resistance to ground.

Some people will suggest buying a kahn daughterboard, but those really aren't necessary. It's good in an emergency but you really should fix the board. I have about 20 WPC games with several out on location and none are running the daughterboard.

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Some people will suggest buying a kahn daughterboard, but those really aren't necessary. It's good in an emergency but you really should fix the board. I have about 20 WPC games with several out on location and none are running the daughterboard.

I've had great success with this temp fix. Have one in my TZ, and they have a horrible reputation of resets . Bet it fixes the issue , and if you are not comfortable with board work, its safer than your practicing soldering skills on them .

Great to have around too, even if you repair the board, just before a party is when most games develop the reset syndrome and you'll be happy you had it.

JP

#4 6 years ago

Well I spent some quality time on this issue this evening. I reseated all the plugs, and as you predicted, the problem went away. However, I'm still too low for comfort on the 5v line. At the test point, I am at 4.85v, and on the CPU board, I'm at 4.84v. I have the caps, so that may be next.

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

Well I spent some quality time on this issue this evening. I reseated all the plugs, and as you predicted, the problem went away. However, I'm still too low for comfort on the 5v line. At the test point, I am at 4.85v, and on the CPU board, I'm at 4.84v. I have the caps, so that may be next.

I am having a similar issue with my Fish Tales and my Judge Dredd.

However, the output from BR2 is above 9 V, and AC voltage on the same circuit is very low (200-300 mV) on both games. So according to Pinwiki, both BR2 and C5 are good. However, I am only getting around ~4.8 V on the CPU board at the game ROM and at the U10 watchdog (again, on both games). I have also gone through the rest of the troubleshooting steps, leaving only the voltage regulator as the cause. But I am having a hard time believing that the regulator needs replacing on both machines.

I am interested to know if the caps do need replacing or if I am just not getting accurate readings on my meter. Let us know how it goes.

#6 6 years ago

I have a couple of burnt connectors on my general illumination side I plan to replace first, so it may be a while before I change out the caps.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from arolden:

I am having a similar issue with my Fish Tales and my Judge Dredd.
However, the output from BR2 is above 9 V, and AC voltage on the same circuit is very low (200-300 mV) on both games. So according to Pinwiki, both BR2 and C5 are good. However, I am only getting around ~4.8 V on the CPU board at the game ROM and at the U10 watchdog (again, on both games). I have also gone through the rest of the troubleshooting steps, leaving only the voltage regulator as the cause. But I am having a hard time believing that the regulator needs replacing on both machines.
I am interested to know if the caps do need replacing or if I am just not getting accurate readings on my meter. Let us know how it goes.

You may want to check the voltage at a few other places to try to narrow down where the problem is. What is your voltage at the test point (TP2) on the power/driver board ? Then look at the voltage at J114, pins 3 and 4. Make sure you measure this one from the back of the plug. And finally, measure the voltage somewhere on the CPU board. What you are looking for are voltage drops caused by tarnished plugs/connectors. They tend to act like resistors when they get dirty, so if your voltage is dropping between TP2 and the CPU board, then the connectors are suspect. This is why when you remove and reset the plugs, the problems sometimes go a way for a while (like mine did). The only real fix is to repin the boards and replace the old plugs.

If you get the same voltage across all these points, and the BR2 looks good, the next place I would look would be Q1 on the power board. This is the 5v regulator. There is a link above to a direct replacement that is adjustable. This is where I am going next if replacing my caps doesn't help.

#8 6 years ago

That 5v power supply always runs right at the brink of a reset anyway. It is over taxed, it was a poor design. Getting your cpu off of that supply and onto the 12v supply is the best thing you can do for that machine for this issue. I have a daughter board in all of my WPC 89 and S machines even the ones that had never had a reset since I have owned them. It will stop the resets period.

#9 6 years ago

Uncomfortable with 4.85V?
If the game is operating fine then there is no reason for discomfort. An absolute rule for minimum voltage does not exist other than the 4.75V that the watchdog requires. I've used boards in my TZ, arguably the most power hungry machine ever, that are producing 4.8x bolts and he game plays fine.

I'd leave well enough alone, especially is you haven't repaired many boards before.

While I'm at it, wholesale changing of the big caps is not advised. The only caps that could ever contribute to a reset issue are C4 and C5. C2 often leaks and causes 12V issues.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

While I'm at it, wholesale changing of the big caps is not advised. The only caps that could ever contribute to a reset issue are C4 and C5. C2 often leaks and causes 12V issues.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

I suppose I should clarify, I was only going to replace C4 and C5. Yes, I agree, a wholesale changing of all the caps is not necessary.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Uncomfortable with 4.85V?
If the game is operating fine then there is no reason for discomfort. An absolute rule for minimum voltage does not exist other than the 4.75V that the watchdog requires. I've used boards in my TZ, arguably the most power hungry machine ever, that are producing 4.8x bolts and he game plays fine.
I'd leave well enough alone, especially is you haven't repaired many boards before.
While I'm at it, wholesale changing of the big caps is not advised. The only caps that could ever contribute to a reset issue are C4 and C5. C2 often leaks and causes 12V issues.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

Hi Chris,

I agree with all your points. However both games do reset during gameplay on rare occasions. Not often, but it happens. So there is something failing somewhere along the line. I am beginning to think C4 so I will see how much AC voltage it is putting out.

Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

You may want to check the voltage at a few other places to try to narrow down where the problem is. What is your voltage at the test point (TP2) on the power/driver board ? Then look at the voltage at J114, pins 3 and 4. Make sure you measure this one from the back of the plug. And finally, measure the voltage somewhere on the CPU board. What you are looking for are voltage drops caused by tarnished plugs/connectors. They tend to act like resistors when they get dirty, so if your voltage is dropping between TP2 and the CPU board, then the connectors are suspect. This is why when you remove and reset the plugs, the problems sometimes go a way for a while (like mine did). The only real fix is to repin the boards and replace the old plugs.
If you get the same voltage across all these points, and the BR2 looks good, the next place I would look would be Q1 on the power board. This is the 5v regulator. There is a link above to a direct replacement that is adjustable. This is where I am going next if replacing my caps doesn't help.

All voltages are the same across the power driver and CPU boards. I also suspect the regulator however it seems unlikely given that I have the same situation on two games.

1 month later
#12 6 years ago

Well I suppose I should close this out.

Changing out the caps didn't help much. I was still at 4.8 to 4.85 at the mpu board.

So then I ordered a new voltage regulator from here: http://www.ezsbc.com/index.php/featured-products-list-home-page/psu5.html#.WZBzFIVlCEd

This got the voltage up to 4.9, and I haven't had a reset since I installed it.

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