Hey folks, just picked up a T2 today. Game was in a local dealers showroom for a while and it was working. Haven't had a Bally/Williams in years. After I brought it home, everything was still working fine. Anyways, I was doing some minor work such as swapping out some LEDs I had on hand and replacing rubber.

After having the playfield up to replace the buttons (start and flipper buttons). I put the PF down and start to play and the cannon doesn't work. I also found that flashers don't work.

So I am guessing that no 12v is what is causing this.

I tested all switches and solenoids and they are all good.

The fuses look (I only checked them visually) good. I zeroed in on F116 as that is secondary 12v. That looks good. The LEDs on the power driver board are all as they should be. (All on except for LED3) LED 7 is specifically 12v for motors/relays and it is on.

Any thoughts?

Thanks Lloyd. Unfortunately, I've forgotten more about WPC than I remember. Where is the 20v test point? Also, if a fuse were bad, would the LED on the driver board still light?

And to check fuses, am I just checking continuity?

Thank you!

In progress. All test points test fine EXCEPT.....20V. I am pulling fuses now to test.

Tested all fuses and they are all good. I was so bummed. F111 (flashers) was testing flaky (had to get it just right to get continuity) and I replaced it, but still no flashers.

Not sure this means anything, but I rechecked the TP and the 18v TP reads 16.3v.

20v is obviously still not showing any voltage.

Thanks Lloyd. Unfortunately, I don't know which BR that is and I need to read up on how to test. Thank you.

Do we think it is definitely the board? I ask because I bought this game today from a dealer. If it is the board, I am hoping that he has a spare. (He doesn't have other WPC games at the moment). If not, I might just send this out to Chris Hibler for repair (I've referred friends to him and they've all been happy) and I'll ask the dealer to split the cost. If it could be something else I can try to test those out. Just my luck, this game has been in his showroom for a while without any issues and this game has reminded me why I got out of WPC. (I own 5 Spike 2 and 1 SAM)
I used to be ok with board repairs (replaced BR, transistors, audio chips in the past), but I got out of WPC 15 years ago and don't remember squat.

Funny thing. My very first pin (over 20 years ago...STTNG, back when I didn't know how to even take the glass off) had burnt connectors. I posted for help on RGP and you were the first person to help back then as well.

Well...I just checked Chris's website and he is at about a 90 day backlog. So if the dealer doesn't have a spare, I might be trying to repair this myself. He has a repair guy on staff as well. Sigh....oh WPC how you enjoy torturing me. (I got this as an early XMas gift for my 15 yo daughter).

Thanks Manny. I have 120VAC at my home. I don't know about the jumper you mention on the transformer connector. But the game had been playing fine for a while. (Was in this dealer's showroom for a few months and played fine at my home for a few hours)

I did test continuity on the new fuse at F111.
I don't actually have anything connected at J104. So using my rudimentary skills, I am guessing that J102-1(or2) and J102-3(or 4) should be the same thing? I pulled that connector and measured 18.04VAC between those. (White wire/red stripe)

UPDATE: I also test J102-1 and F111 figuring I should be getting 20VAC. I read 18VAC there. Also, big change from last night. LED 5 is not lit this morning. It was when I initially checked last night. LED5 is for 20V.

Thank you

Dropped by the dealer today but he was not there. So I'll have to hook up with him on Monday.
I hate sitting around and waiting. I found this:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-rose-flashers-18-20#post-2604414

I tested as it showed. I get a reading on pin 1 but not pin 3. I am guessing that this means that BR4 is bad. I'd just replace it but since this is under a 30 day warranty, I'll have the dealer either repair it or suggest a fix. (He is a good guy and I've done plenty of business with him) He has a technician on staff so we'll see how it goes. I can see myself getting super impatient as I have some bridge rectifiers in my old parts storage. If I decide to swap BR4, is this the correct replacement?

Thanks,

20221123_131811 (resized).jpg

So I got impatient and pulled the board to replace BR4. I found this (pic). So obviously the board had previous work and looks like solder pads may have been lost. 3 of the bridge legs are jumpered. The A/C legs are jumpered to J104 pin 4 and J102 pin 1. The negative lead is jumpered to C11 cap. As this was, this board had been working for a while.

Note: My troubleshooting skills are basic.

I tested BR4 on the back of the board and it tests fine.

I used Zaza's test again on the board and I have the same issue. J102 pins 3 and 4 do not show a value on the meter. Guessing that maybe a solder pad fell off or is otherwise compromised.

I reran Zaza's test, but instead of testing from the TP to J102 pin 3/4 I tested on J104 pin 4 and like this I get a proper reading on the meter. Which is where the one AC leg is jumpered to.

Thanks,
Board (resized).jpg

OK....Sorry for the long posts. Based on a diagram posted earlier in the thread, I went ahead and tested continuity. I have continuity between J102-1/2 and J104-5 BUT I do not have continuity between J102-3/4 and J104-4 (Did I find my problem???)

My thought is to remove the jumper that goes from the J104-4 and run it over to the out of the fuse. So from the red arrow to the white arrow in the pic. Looks like that area (out of the fuse) has been worked on in the past.

So in the schematic view, I am thinking of moving the jumper from the red line to the green line as this board doesn't have the continuity that it should have. Somewhere in the path between J104-4 and after Fuse 111, we don't have continuity.

Board1 (resized).jpg

board3 (resized).jpg

OK...Hopefully last update.

I also replaced BR4 because, well, why not. I had the board out anyways.

I made the change I discussed above, and voila. Machine works again. Interestingly the 20v LED is not lit. But the flashers, and cannon are back in business.

THANK YOU!

When I pulled this board and saw this mess, I knew I'd eventually have to replace it. I figure I'd buy a Rottendog. I'll look into DumbAss as well.

Thanks.

I won't replace it while it works. I think that I'll be able to get some miles out of it.

I used to be big into WPC. I got out of WPC starting about 15 years ago when my kids came along and I went with all SAM as I didn't have time to dedicate to keeping them running. The SAM games weren't as fun, IMO, (except maybe Iron Man, which I still have) but wow were they bulletproof. (Never had any real problems with them). Last year I got rid of all of my SAM (except Iron Man) and went to Spike 2. I love Spike 2 as I can really get them to have fantastic sound. (I go bonkers with speakers and amps on them)

I bought this WPC because I was with my 15yo daughter at a local dealer. She played T2 and liked it so I bought it and the fond memories I had of WPC seemed to make me forget about all of the problems I used to have to address. Though my WPC95 games were more reliable than earlier WPC. Not sure I'll go back, but I'll keep this T2 for a while as she likes it.

Yup. Bridges are the easiest component to replace IMO. Clip the legs, heat and pull. Caps are definitely much more difficult.

I had done enough bridges with my old machines that I still had a stash of new bridges in my old parts bin.

You are fortunate. i've had over 12 WPC games. I've had to do the following repairs
Burnt connectors (Easy fix, but a pain)
Bridge rectifiers (they fixed this on WPC95)
Audio chips
Transistors

That is just a small sampling. What is funny is that I used to be a Bally/Williams snob. I used to poo-poo Sega/Data East/Stern. Flippers being a big point of contention. Now that I have my first WPC in over 10 years, the WMS flippers seem different than the Stern I am used to. I didn't like them at first.

I am a bit ADHD and sometimes when I work on a large cap, I'll have a sudden moment of anxiety where I am like "Crap, did I discharge the cap?" While I've got the iron close to jumping the leads.

One time, I thought that it would be cool to use a screwdriver jump a large-ish cap that I had removed. (I think it was a 15K mfd)
I was expecting a good pop. I had severely underestimated the pop. Nothing happened other than a scorched screwdriver and having the living daylights scared out of me. But since then, I respect caps.

Hopefully. I just had such a good (maintenance) experience with SAM that they made WPC look awful. Again, WPC95 were MUCH better than previous WPC. Spike has not been so great so far. Lost a cabinet node board, and some light boards on Star Wars and interestingly I've had 2 wires that broke somewhere and I had to run new wires (This happened twice on brand new machines).