(Topic ID: 299145)

WPC Help on Demolition Man - Booting , Display, Fuses, Transformer

By GraniteStatePin

2 years ago


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#1 2 years ago

Working on a Demo Man and need some help!

At this point I have no display so keep that in mind. Also no batteries installed on the cpu.

Main Problem: Having a boot issue: When powered on I get a loud pop sound in the speakers, the start button flashes on then goes off and then the coin door inserts light up followed by 1 "bong" sound from the sound board. All LED's on boards are doing what they should per manual. Now here's the funny part, at this point nothing else has happened, no lights, no movement, game will not start. (note: maybe 3 out of 10 or so power ons at this point the very far back left flasher under the PF where the car hits the target has either flashed onand off or actually stayed on for a number of seconds then eventually goes out after a bit, this is the ONLY light to show life at this point.)
Then CONSISTENTLY (happens every time) after sitting powered on for 4 to 5 minutes the playfield comes alive, lights on, claw moves back and forth and elevator up and down and again 1 sound board "bong." At this point the coin door switches will not coin up for a credit but you can press the service credit button to add some, start a game and basically plays as it should. What would cause this delay in booting up? Also note this is ONLY with the coin door closed. If door is open then PF never comes alive at all!

SIDE Note: When powered off there's a strange static noise that sounds like a wave at the ocean coming ashore, then a high pitch squeek followed by an abrupt "pop" / off sound. All taking maybe 5 seconds. Is this normal? Also to note, if I turn the game back on BEFORE this sequence completes (after game has come alive prior) then game will boot and PF comes alive straight away, if I turn the game back on 1 second after this sequence is complete then game will not come alive for the 4-5 min duration again.

Minor Problem: No display. (Note: I have confirmed the dmd itself to be good by testing in another game) Before powering on the game for the first time I went through and checked all the fuses to be correct. At first power on I immediately blew dot matrix board 3/8A fuses at F601 and F602. There is a definite hack on this board (see below) where someone has combined a resistor and diode at D3. Why would this be done and is it safe to replace with just the correct resistor? What else can I check to sort out why I have no display?

SIDE Question about WPC fuses: Concerning the 3/8A fuses at F601 and F602. My demo man and shadow manuals call for Fast Blow fuses although the pinwiki WPC fuse jpeg shows slow blow? After checking, my shadow has SB's installed and has run for years no issue. On this demo man I installed FB as per manual and they blew. Which is correct?
I've also seen conflicting info for fuse F115 on the Driver board concerning the 3/4 A fuse as to if its FB or SB???

Minor Concern: My CPU is an A-12742-20013 (think it had a '92 date on it) instead of the manual called for A-12742-50028. Although it seems to run ok once booted is this safe to use?

Minor Concern: Driver board has no #2 or #3 LED installed, is this common?

Minor Concern: Aux. Driver PCB board LED 1 + 2 stay on once powered on, is this correct? Couldn't find info in manual?

Minor Concern: No opto flippers? Just regular switches installed. Did they produce any of these without or did someone just not want to replace them when they broke or something?

Minor Concern: Speakers seem to have quite a bit of hum and is exaggerated/surges by things like when inserts all flash at once.

Other Concern: My transformer seems to be hacked, maybe the source of my speaker hum? See pics below. I have not removed any tape but seems 1 blk wire from trans. is just cut. The blk and white wires on far side of connector have been combined and go to the power interface. The blk wire coming from the power interface seems to be connected to a 2nd blk wire coming from the trans. and possibly attached to the white w/ blk strip wire? Whats going on here? Should I try and clean this up?

Any suggestions or people with similar issues before? All input is appreciated! thanks

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#2 2 years ago

Chk 5v. I think that was happening in mine until i just ran an external psu for 5v positive and negative.

The bong and no display, sounds like its warming up, 5v trips something and goes low again. Get that checked.

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from trueno92:

Chk 5v. I think that was happening in mine until i just ran an external psu for 5v positive and negative.
The bong and no display, sounds like its warming up, 5v trips something and goes low again. Get that checked.

4.84 when turned on...minutes later when PF comes alive its 4.88

#4 2 years ago

Are you checking the 5v at the mpu board? Im not sure but you did mention the leds are doing their thing so maybe the 5v is ok..

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from trueno92:

Are you checking the 5v at the mpu board? Im not sure but you did mention the leds are doing their thing so maybe the 5v is ok..

At the TP2 on Driver board and on the game rom pin 32 on CPU. LED's all are correct per manual

#6 2 years ago

Noticed this today, Resistor R151 on Driver Board is just not installed? Anybody know what this does?

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#7 2 years ago

Also most of my bridge rectifiers are a mess...someone replaced with non correct ones where instead of 4 leads they had to connect wires to connectors and such...just a mess. I'm thinking I'm just going to replace all 5 regardless. They used MB-3510 and MB-1510's instead of the original MB-352W's. Also whats with this jump on the back at the BR1 position? (see pic below)

I did this WPC pinwiki test: "6.17.12 Using a Multimeter to Test the Bridge Rectifier and Capacitors" Says should read 9V off BR2 positive lead and good capacitors will read about 300mV AC. Mine read 11.8 V and my M.Meter only has 200mA AC setting which didn't pick anything up, then next setting up is 200V AC and it read 25.4V , which seems way high.

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#8 2 years ago
Quoted from GraniteStatePin:

Noticed this today, Resistor R151 on Driver Board is just not installed? Anybody know what this does?

Those are in the path to ground for the lamp rows.
You'll have a lamp row out without it.

Quoted from GraniteStatePin:

Also whats with this jump on the back at the BR1 position? (see pic below)

Probably a "wire stitch" to repair a torn through hole.
While the bridges might be ugly, and the wrong style bridge, if they work, I'd leave them. All that you can do is improve the cosmetics.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Those are in the path to ground for the lamp rows.
You'll have a lamp row out without it.

Probably a "wire stitch" to repair a torn through hole.
While the bridges might be ugly, and the wrong style bridge, if they work, I'd leave them. All that you can do is improve the cosmetics.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Do you happen to know what row? Just curious. None of my G.I. is hooked up right now, cut harness, although all of the Inserts and other lamps on top like ramp lights, claw lights etc. seem to work fine.

I guess the bridges are working although reading a bit high it seems.

#10 2 years ago

That is R151 that is missing.
It traces to J133/7, which is row 6.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

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#11 2 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

That is R151 that is missing.
It traces to J133/7, which is row 6.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info[quoted image]

Thanks Chris!

...Anybody have any ideas about the cause of delayed booting?

#12 2 years ago

My $0.02

Start at the BEGINNING.

Sort out your mains transformer issues. Figure out the correct wiring and get rid of any added stuff.

Get the power supplies overhauled or repaired as needed and CONFIRM all voltages are correct. This includes the regulator section for the DMD on the DMD driver board (the one with the cracked diode).

Without the correct power supplies NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!

Stop fiddling with "trying to get it to boot" until you know, with absolute certainty, that all power supplies are correct or you are just wasting your time.

You are putting your swimming costume on before going to bed instead of waiting until you get to the beach!

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from GraniteStatePin:

...Anybody have any ideas about the cause of delayed booting?

Low 5volts. What does the voltage measure at C31 on the MPU?

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

You are putting your swimming costume on before going to bed instead of waiting until you get to the beach!

I love the beach! I laughed pretty hard at that, thank you! I do need to sort the trans wiring but unfortunately it doesn't have the original style universal power interface, I think its an older style. Your prolly right though and I should start there. Meanwhile all my Driver Board test point readings seem close to normal as far as I've read/seen.
TP1 16v
TP2 4.84 to 4.88v
TP3 12v
TP4 .336v
TP6 83.5 ...also seen 73.5
TP7 25v
TP8 18.5 to 20.8

#15 2 years ago

TP2, 5v, is rather low, actually. Likely, it's LOWER at the MPU than the PDB. That is likely your issue - it stays low until the power board, or something in between, starts warming up.

6 months later
#17 2 years ago

> Then CONSISTENTLY (happens every time) after sitting powered on for 4 to 5 minutes the playfield comes alive

I'm still learning but could this possibly be a problem with the thermistor in the power box requiring time to heat up enough to pass the proper current for the game to operate?

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