Based on this, it really seems you enjoy tinkering and playing, but seeing others get joy out of a game is paramount. You also have space but a budget threshold and value nicer games. With that synopsis I think you will be happiest with staying in your wheel house. There are still lots of really fun and nice quality games in the sub 2k range. I would suggest looking at a game like Stargate if you want to branch out at all. It has a deep ruleset with lots of multiball action so noobs will enjoy it. It will most likely need some tweaking but is by far the most rock solid of any era/manufacturer once tuned in.

I would also concentrate on the 80s B/W/GTB games. Things with relatively simple rulesets to understand, gratifying shots, and yet hard to really master. They provide great bang for the buck, collectibility, and lastability in any collection.

Sys 11 games in particular sounds to be a good fit.

If going newer I would suggest a Judge Dredd. Great flow and fun factor is high.

Johnny also fits your MO.

cheers and good luck as you build the collection.

The WPC era were some great games, but in general I much prefer Sterns now for both fun and reliability. There is nothing that I can't fix on a pinball machine, but after years and years of fixing poorly designed WPC machines it is nice to have games that you just set up and play without having to eff with them. I love games like IJ, WH2O, AFM and TZ, but I would trade them for ACDC, Metallica, GOT and GB in a heartbeat.

Play more routed games, and discover the differences in manufacturers for yourself.
You might really enjoy the adventure.
Newer Stern titles are much more prevalent in local venues for basic reasons.
They are not that hard to locate.
If you were stating the question "WPC Guy Here. Should I Get a AGC, ZAC, or Gameplan?", that would be a different matter altogether.

I get why some don't like Congo but I love it. Callouts and theme are a little strange but that's part of the charm for me. Love games with character. Tron sure looks like a great game but it just plays clunky to me. funny how they have such a similar layout and different feel. No worries. They sell for a lot so glad I don't feel the need to own one.

Congo is by far my favorite game, I often consider selling my collection except congo and metallica which are my only 2 true keepers. So 1 wpc keeper and 1 stern keeper. Both company's made amazing games. Oh and I don't like tron at all. Wouldn't want one in my collection.

It's strange how some Trons do feel Klunky, but mine does not. It feels like MMR that I played at TPF this year, it feels like my nib ST that I got last year.

The Tron LE at TPF felt klunky to me, Tron isn't for everyone , but those that like Tron a little, walk away loving the experience

My Tron is very fast and fluid. I have ran into klunky Trons, and it's awful. The last LE I played felt terrible, and it totally bummed me out because I was excited to play it. I guess I've put all the extra time into getting mine nice and tight, which seems absolutely necessary to making the game the best it can be.

who doesn't prefer nice and tight

I have a collection of early SS Bally and Sterns. Typically I crank up the back adjusters just to make things interesting. I recently purchased Tron and also cranked it up in the back. That was a big mistake. Played it like that for a day and hated it. Then I adjusted it to the designers spec with the bubble between the lines and magically everything made sense. LOTR was my favorite new Stern. It has been replaced by Tron. Total adrenalin. Do not play this game tired or casually because you will be just wasting your time.

This is difficult. A combination of allergies and insomnia leave me in a tired state most of the time. Also, I do not own a tuxedo. If I have to go out and rent one just to play TRON formally that is just too much to ask.

Pinball is no fun if you have to take a nap and psych yourself up just to play a game. Maybe that is why I never got the LOTR love.

I think business casual would be OK.

LOTR is more of a marathon. A good game is a 40 minute time commitment. That's why it didn't stay around very long in my pinball league. It created a huge back up. A group of 3 top players could take an hour and a half to play LOTR. And that is with a ball busting tournament setup.

right. way too much stop and go on that game. I had it jacked way up and everything set to extra hard and it still took too long

That's baseball!

I think you mean soccer

OP there are great titles from both manufacturers, go out and play as many as possible. I was once a WPC only guy but found myself gravitating more towards the newer sterns if both were side by side. I prefer Sterns in a home environment because they generally have a much deeper rule set.

For every decent Stern there's two mediocre to bad ones (ps. Spiderman wasn't a great seller initially). Williams had a lot better hit:miss ratio overall until Stern really found their groove in 2008.

They do definitely "feel" different, but they make some nice machines now.

Why not? Variety is the spice of life.

Neither was MM or.......or MB. They were blowing out CV's NIB.

How much a game sells is not always a great indicator of how good a game is. Hell IM didn't sell well in 2010.

Twilight Zone was a firesale game.

Tron and Woz are my lunch time games. I come home, eat a sandwich , and play one of them, I get my best scores then.

I don't play them casually either, I put on a suit and tie, usually go barefoot though

Selling you my Tron has paid for quite a few lunches.

I think what eventually wins over most WPC-only people is gameplay. Once you realize the Stern games are being designed and programmed by your favorite B/W designers/programmers...you realize there's almost nothing to be apprehensive about. Many Stern titles are an extension of what you loved about WPC games.

What I loved a lot about WPC games was the mostly current and original themes. Stern is seriously lagging in that department. Especially lately.

That's not going to change, but at least they've had some good use of themes. Ghostbusters is very well done. Stern has no interest in original themes though.

No, it's not. But as long as they are licensing 30 year old movies and has been rock stars instead of doing original themes, I won't be sending them any money.

Stern's dad Sam was way more cutting edge.

Not really, he just existed in a different market condition. You could use the most generic themes and it was fine. Themes with licenses are far more key to success now.

At least Williams didn't overly dwell in the past with their licensed themes. They did a few, but were few and far between.

In fact some of Williams licensed themes are more current than what Stern is doing now.

I'd say their use of themes before the movie came out bit them in the ass more often than helped. At least Stern waits for it to be successful.

For the most part, Stern's themes have been modern or at least culturally relevant. Ghostbusters is everywhere right now and it never really faded away over the past 30 years. Aerosmith is a dud license, whatever. But there's nothing old about Iron Man, X-Men, Avengers, Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, and much of their other themes. The old rockers stuff is only partially their fault. They can't control that there has been garbage for rock bands in the past decade or two.

Most of their highly rated games were not licensed........

It's the same old argument.

Yes, it was, as an overstock.
Many people here were not around in the hobby when it happened.

But their top sellers are licensed properties. There are some original themes in there, but most of the top sellers are licensed games.

All I know is in the 90s pinball mostly represented the times. Now it represents nothing.

It still does. Comic book movies are huge, and we got the pins to back that up. The Walking Dead is one of the biggest shows in years, and we got the pin. Even EMs in the 60s often depicted events or times from decades earlier.

I get what you're saying though. I too like modern themes that act as a reflection on current American culture, but I don't want a Justin Beiber pin. I'd rather them dredge up the corpses of Metallica for a game before that.

WMS: licensed, un-licensed, who cares?

That was 20 years ago.

What worked decades in the past, might not really work so well in today's economic climate.

I would say the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80a did well to represent the eras of the period well.
Seemed to fallout after 1999.
Not notable since that time, and nothing defined the periods of 00s and 10s.

Word.

Pinball's soul died in 1999.

As long as it is wealthy middle aged home buyers choosing themes, pinball's soul will remain dead and burried.

I think I just like pinball regardless of the era or manufacturer. There are too many games and not enough money/space.

Don't remind me

Seems it helped buy several woodies too

Did I say that right?

Best selling/ most popular of all time.... is a licenced pinball

e481d924b1e4b21bf5154c93f7972635_(resized).jpg

B/W lover here but my first Stern is on order. I hope GB is a good one!

80's thrash metal still rules!

Whoa Nellie is an original theme manufactured by Stern. It's also a lot of fun to play. Since you love EMs, and this is a modern-day homage to classic EM gameplay, I figured this particular release would be right up your alley?

Whoa_Nellie_(resized).png

Yep, I've got more wood now than I ever dreamed of.

Yeah, I like it. It's the short flippers that really do it for me. What I'd really like to see is pinball defining the era it's in now too. But I guess it's OK if it limps along with whatever it takes to keep these companies in business. For the most part though, pinball is no longer a part of the pop culture of it's time IMO.

Second highest production game in the history of pinball was NOT a licensed theme, had a title run nearly equal to TAF (only 1000 less).
I don't count games without flippers.

It used negotiated copyrighted images orchestrated by Bally and artists Paul Faris/Margaret Hudson in a time when actors were not completely anal retentive, ie Henry Winkler (Fonz) and Roz Kelly (Pinky Tuscadero). The licensing "dance" was not the same, and whole lot cheaper. The total production difference is insignificant based on the overall numbers.

TAF, ~21,228
EB, ~20,230

Although times have changed, original themes can be highly successful, if done properly.
The problem with pinball is the nature of the industry during periods of flux, such as today.
Today's pinball manufacturers have a tough time time justifying ideas to management just like the modern movie industry.

They are afraid to take a chance, hence the current "modern" games have a hard time establishing themselves as a symbol of the generational era unlike the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s and the constant rehashing to "reboots" across the multiple lines of entertainment development. However, sometimes I have been absolutely clueless what goes on in Gary Stern's head with some of his license deals.
WPT, WoF, Family Guy, "Good Morning America" (I know this was really not meant for "production", but it actually was considered at one point and quickly dropped).
WTF Stern?

Spooky took a chance, and so did Heighway with moderate success, but these are not corporations.
At least Spooky is willing to dive back into the arena with marketing and Dominoes, so that is an interesting direction.
Not going to be a big seller with collectors, but I get the intent gist here, and it will definitely help both companies.
"Avoid the Noid."

EB_Backglass.jpg

NOTE: This is another NOS EB glass I decided to "throw down" on Ebay recently.
Not very common for me to buy like this often, but the price was right, because it included the frame for hanging and protection, and shipping was fair. Another glass in the TBK repository...

This is definitely outdated because some Stern games would have populated the licensed list a bit more, but I saw this a few years back. It applies to DMD only, but licensed games definitely always sold more.

Licensed Games
Sales over 20,000: The Addams Family
Sales over 15,000: Terminator 2, Twilight Zone
Sales over 10,000: Indiana Jones, Star Trek: NG, Star Wars
Sales over 5,000: Demolition Man, Bram Stoker's Dracula, World Cup Soccer '94, Creature From the Black Lagoon, Doctor Who, Corvette, Judge Dredd, Jurassic Park, Hook, Last Action Hero,
Pirates of the Caribbean, Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party.

Unlicensed Games
Sales over 20,000: None
Sales over 15,000: None
Sales over 10,000: Getaway, Fish Tales
Sales over 5,000: White Water, Road Show, Theatre of Magic