(Topic ID: 266099)

WPC DMD High Voltage Issue

By grantopia

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by onlydjz
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

140v (resized).jpg
20200410_183639 (resized).jpg
20200410_183629 (resized).jpg
20200410_183607 (resized).jpg
20200410_183556 (resized).jpg
20200410_183541 (resized).jpg
#1 4 years ago

Starting to pull my hair out with this one so I'm hoping someone can help me narrow down where I went wrong. My JD DMD has been taking a while to warm up and the high voltage was low. I'd been putting it off for a while and figured quarantine was finally the time I would rebuild the HV section of the DMD controller board.

I'm now getting 116v, 104v and the 60v reads about 4v and then starts dropping towards 0 with the DMD totally dead. I swapped in the board from my BSD and it boots great, so I know the problem is on the board somewhere.

I'm pretty disappointed that I somehow got a worse result after rebuilding it and figured I must have either shorted something or I'm missing connection on a trace where I should have one. I spent the last 3 hours going back over every component making sure they all tested good and following all the traces I could see to make sure continuity was good and nothing is jumping out at me.

I can get some pictures of the area tomorrow if it would help. This seems like a common issue with these boards but none of the fixes in the threads I found seemed to get me anywhere. I didn't replace any of the caps so that is one of the last things left I can think of but any starting points would be helpful.

#2 4 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

I didn't replace any of the caps so that is one of the last things left I can think of but any starting points would be helpful.

I'd try and figure what got worse after you worked on it, before replacing more stuff.

LTG : )

#3 4 years ago

Hey Lloyd, thanks for chiming in. The 60v was reading high before I did the rebuild, close to 70 (going from memory, I didn't write it down unfortunately, bah). Before I did the rebuild the DMD would slowly warm up over a few minutes. the 125 and 113 were each about 15v low...110 and 99-ish if I recall correctly, so that's what prompted the initial thought to rebuild.

Now I have 116 and 104v. In some reading I was doing last night I found a few things saying that as long as you have 12v separation there (which I do), the voltages lower than 125 and 113 should be ok - I'm not sure if that's true or not (though I did read it on the internet!).

Now at the connector on the DMD my 60v pin reads about 4v then starts dropping to 0 with the game on, no display activity at anytime.

I'm going to take a look back and triple check everything against the schematic and maybe reflow some of the solder just to make sure i have a connection on the pads, but I was pretty diligent and didn't notice any pads lifting during my work. I'm going to start back at the 60v pin on the board and work my way back through the traces. None of the caps (large or small) were replaced with the kit and I didn't touch the BRs either...so that could be an option but since the DMD worked (although slow to warm up) before, I'm not totally sold on a bad BR.

#4 4 years ago

Just as I posted on FB. Good thinking so far. Compare the traces in the 68 volt section between the 2 boards, especially to and from the big white 120 ohm resistor R4 toward the bottom of the board.

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Just as I posted on FB. Good thinking so far. Compare the traces in the 68 volt section between the 2 boards, especially to and from the big white 120 ohm resistor R4 toward the bottom of the board.

I just ran across the trace images on PinWiki which I'm hoping will help a lot. Based on what I have read on PinWiki, it does sound like those lower (116/104) voltages are ok and Williams changed them at some point to 112/100v so I'm thinking I am ok there and just need to resolve the 62v problem.

It sounds like I don't need to worry about any of the capacitors on the board...but if those are bad would that matter? What circuit are these in?

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

just need to resolve the 62v problem.

Exactly as I stated in a different way.

Quoted from grantopia:

It sounds like I don't need to worry about any of the capacitors on the board...but if those are bad would that matter?

Chris Hibler already commented on that on FB and I agree with him. Look at your traces first.

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Exactly as I stated in a different way.

Chris Hibler already commented on that on FB and I agree with him. Look at your traces first.

Yeah not saying I disagree with Chris, just want to understand why they aren't important. Are they not in the HV circuit? I am going to work through the traces this afternoon.

#8 4 years ago

Since the job of capacitors is to hold a charge, they are doing that, even before you started the HV rebuild. You started off with ~70v and now zero, so it is not capacitor related. Instead, it is the work you did.

Paying attention with what you started with and ended with tells the story.

#9 4 years ago

I spent alot of time going back over the board this afternoon. All the traces in the 60v circuit have continuity on the front and back of the board where they should. I tested BR1 just to rule that out and it tests good also. I am 99% confident that I didn't cut a trace anywhere and held alot of light behind the board as I checked. Not really sure where to go next here aside from pulling and retesting the individual components again to make sure they are good.

I did throw the board in my BSD just to rule out any other board or cabinet related issues and the dmd has no display in that game either.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

I did throw the board in my BSD just to rule out any other board or cabinet related issues and the dmd has no display in that game either.

Unless all 3 high voltages are working, you will not have any display. Post a picture of the board, front and back please. Both fuses test good with a meter?

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Unless all 3 high voltages are working, you will not have any display. Post a picture of the board, front and back please. Both fuses test good with a meter?

Sure...let me know if this works. Fuses are good with a meter. Even the areas that look pretty crispy are testing good for continuity where they should, but willing to try whatever!

20200410_183541 (resized).jpg20200410_183541 (resized).jpg20200410_183556 (resized).jpg20200410_183556 (resized).jpg20200410_183607 (resized).jpg20200410_183607 (resized).jpg20200410_183629 (resized).jpg20200410_183629 (resized).jpg20200410_183639 (resized).jpg20200410_183639 (resized).jpg
#12 4 years ago

Looking quickly, I do not see an issue. I'm on my way out for an in house repair. Hopefully, someone else may see an issue while I am gone.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Looking quickly, I do not see an issue. I'm on my way out for an in house repair. Hopefully, someone else may see an issue while I am gone.

No worries, always appreciate a second look!

#14 4 years ago

Bottom of board would be a bit easier to see if you clean the flux of with some alcohol. Kind of hard to see some of the transistor joints with all the shininess.

#15 4 years ago

Make sure you ohm between the transistor legs to be sure you don't have a solder short.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Make sure you ohm between the transistor legs to be sure you don't have a solder short.

I'll take a look and buzz them out today. I don't believe I checked that. Do you actually mean ohm or just run continuity to make sure I didn't bridge the solder pads?

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:I'll take a look and buzz them out today. I don't believe I checked that. Do you actually mean ohm or just run continuity to make sure I didn't bridge the solder pads?

I always look at the ohm measurements. Don't reply on a beep to tell you there is a short. Some circuits have 100 ohm resistance and that will make the meter beep.

You can use continuity to do a quick test, but if you get a beep, check the resistance measurement.

This goes back to what GPE was taking about cleaning the board of flux to see if there solder bridges between pins. Cleaning the board should be a standard practice anyway. I think you will find a firm toothbrush with alcohol will help to remove the hard flux followed by a Qtip to soak it up.

Even without the flux on the board, a very fine solder short will not be seen without a magnifying glass or zooming in on a picture, front and back of the board.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I always look at the ohm measurements. Don't reply on a beep to tell you there is a short. Some circuits have 100 ohm resistance and that will make the meter beep.
You can use continuity to do a quick test, but if you get a beep, check the resistance measurement.
This goes back to what GPE was taking about cleaning the board of flux to see if there solder bridges between pins. Cleaning the board should be a standard practice anyway. I think you will find a firm toothbrush with alcohol will help to remove the hard flux followed by a Qtip to soak it up.
Even without the flux on the board, a very fine solder short will not be seen without a magnifying glass or zooming in on a picture, front and back of the board.

Interesting this is great info. I've honestly never tried checking for shorts using ohm measurements before. Are you just looking to confirm there is no resistance between the solder points?

#19 4 years ago

Make the ohm measurements between the transistor legs (middle to outer, middle to other outer) and compare to your working board to see if there is difference. If there is no difference, then you did not create a solder short between the legs. That is all you need to look for.

6 months later
#20 3 years ago

Hi all, I have an interesting problem.
My dmd board works fine but it is the 140/128V which is too high (green circle).
The red point at the zener is the correct 110V. Does it mean the Q6 transistor is opened too high? Need replace that and will work fine?

140v (resized).jpg140v (resized).jpg
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 30.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
$ 65.00
Cabinet - (Alt) Translites
Pinball Haus
 
$ 165.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
DevilsMuse Arcade
 
From: $ 20.99
Playfield - Plastics
Gameroom Mods
 
$ 72.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
5,300 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Minneapolis, MN
$ 30.00
Playfield - Other
YouBentMyWookie
 
$ 17.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
4,250 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Richardson, TX
From: $ 209.00
$ 19.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
 
6,550 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Pasadena, TX
From: $ 27.00
Boards
KAHR.US Circuits
 
$ 85.00
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
5,000
Machine - For Sale
New Castle, CO
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
 
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 29.50
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
 
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
From: $ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 99.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 329.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 14.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Twisted Tokens
 
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 29.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
 
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc-dmd-high-voltage-issue and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.