Hi all

After searching the archives, I know this question has been asked a thousand times, but I am not grasping what to do next.

My IJ has suddenly started blowing F116 whenever you hit the flippers. I disconected J118, which stopped the fuse from blowing, but also disconnects the flippers. I ran a full battery of tests, and it appears to be ONLY the flippers which are not working.

So I'm not sure what to test next. I am getting a solid 12V from the TP on the board; I am confident BR5 which serves the 12V is working, because the other coils are firing. And the coils themselves are not causing the fuse to blow, it's the buttons themselves(?!)

So do I need to start looking at the Fliptronics board? I have never had to diagnose anything on that board. The fuses there look OK; I am about to pull them to test for sure.

Hoping for a pointer bump.

Yep makes sense - that’s exactly what shuts down when the fuse goes. AND the flipper coils themselves aren’t causing it, since they work find in test. I can’t figure out what J118 is disabling .. except the flippers, it is really strange. The J118 connector has a grey/yellow wire and a ground. Grey/yellow goes to the left flipper. So I’m looking for some other ideas of what to test next! Every soldenoid works fine even when I disconnect J118.

I have not determined if it’s left or right, or either/both; I have a couple more fuses... lol I guess I can do that

Wow i never would have thought of that. Thanks, I will check that out. The unregulated test point is giving me 12.2V or so, which is why nothing is freaking out

Not much - I have a PinSound and a ColorDMD, but I unplugged both and it still blows, so I think it is something else. The fuse *only* blows when the flipper button is pushed, not when the COILS themselves go. When I go into test mode I can fire the solenoids all day long, as long as I don't hit the actual button. It seems like something is shorting, but I have no idea what this has to do with J118. When I get home I am going to take a look at the wiring and see if the 12V reg is plugged into the 12V Unreg

Going home to test right now...

So I’m still having this issue with my IJ - it is definitely something in the flipper signal path. I reversed the flipper optos, and F116 still blows.

I have checked the manual and I am pretty sure everything is set up correctly.

Also unplugged the connector from the left flipper opto, and it does not blow. So something in that path is causing the problem, but I can not figure out what.
I replaced BR5 in case that was the problem. It tested ok, but I replaced it anyway. Still no luck.
The grey/yellow wire seems to be the culprit but I am not sure what else to look at.
One other thing I noticed was that the German plane’s LEDs are constantly lit, so could a transistor have blown on the PDB? How would this affect the flippers.
Test says the left flipper opto is out when I disconnect J118, so the flippers are going through that connector. That seems weird, but it does look like the manual confirms it, if I’m reading it right. Any ideas? The other threads here have focused on a short in the game but I am fairly certain I have a blown component somewhere

Thanks for the diagrams! The game blows the fuse immediately when I turn it on, if the J118 connector is plugged in. Or if I connect J118 and disconnect the connection at the flipper opto. It doesn't blow when I push the button, it blows immediately. I would think this indicates a short, but I just don't see anything. as far as i can tell, That wire goes right from the flipper opto, into the grey cable tube, right to the power driver board.

Also, this just happened one day, i did not have the game lifted or open, which leads me to believe something shorted, but i am unsure what. Could the flipper opto board(s) cause a short like this? seems unlikely

edit: changed misleading thread title

61.2 (both connected)
65.8 (neither connected)
63 (only right connected)

These all seem in line, eh?

I’m about to go downstairs to check, but I believe J118 and J116 are actually reversed. J118 is supposed to power the mini playfield, and it still works in test mode, even when that connector is off the board. I wonder if I should try replacing my flippertronics board with that from my TZ and see if i can isolate things that way.

So if the LEDs on the plane are constantly lit, doesn’t that indicate a blown transistor?

I believe it still blows the fuse. I also swapped 116 and 118, and the connector with the Grey/yellow wire is what caused the fuse to heat up and blow

All right! Thanks so much for all the ideas and encouragement - sorry I wasn’t able to be super clear earlier, I was still at work so doing Things from memory.

I just blew a bunch of fuses trying different things, replaced both flipper opto boards just in case - and I have narrowed it down to this: when I close the coil door, the game blows. Immediately.

But with all connectors plugged in, coin door open AND the white high voltage switch pushed in (so coils are firing and the game is otherwise fully operational), I can play a whole game with no problem. WtF. so the coin door is somehow snorting something? This is getting nuts. I would say this means my boards are ok, game seems totally ok otherwise. What should I do now? Look for loose wires? I am not experienced with coin door wiring unfortunately. There are 2 coin mechs which I am going to disconnect.

Just tested that - it still blew when I closed the door with the PF raised. I disconnected the coin mech board (what’s the proper name of this?) and no change. We’re getting close here! Although I’m sure keeping the coin door open doesn’t pass the wife test.. lol

I saw A previous post about some wire getting pinched; I will have to review that

I wonder if this game
Is wired incorrectly? I don’t see any 12v wires to the door, except to the door interface board. I pulled that connection.

Game plays 100% with door open and the interlock switch pushed in (there’s only one, not sure if that’s relevant).

There must be a short somewhere. Arrgh this is frustrating, but I will find it!!

Agreed; I think it must be a shorted wire somewhere that is touching when the door is closed. I think I’ll lift the PF fully and slowly close the door until the fuse pops. This is getting expensive! I only have a few left...

Oh, also I do not have an original manual, just one from IPDB

Sorry about that! Tried this, no change; it did not blow the fuse, until I hooked up the connector I noted above.

So I noticed that the German plane LEDs are tied in to the “super ball” button. I think that is where the issue is somehow.

Currently I have the coin door lights disconnected (not sure If they are the culprit but I don’t want to use another fuse to test), and checked for loose wires. This is so weird. Game has been playing great for half an hour! There is still one issue; I think the opto in the middle lock hole is bad - I lock a ball and it has to do 2 ball searches to launch the ball into the idol lock. So I’ll deal with that tomorrow...

Also, I replace the LM323 on all my boards when I have to work on them, with a P5US, which is like magic. I have super stable 5v every time with those things.
Currently this game is rocking a ColorDMD, PinSound, and an LEDOCD!

I’m not totally done here (still don’t understand root cause) but this is enough that I can sleep well tonight! Haha

Omg at least 12

I must have had my DMM on the wrong setting - I have to fix the lock optos tonight so I will re-measure.

Yes LEDOCD is still connected, I am not sure if it runs off the 12v, I was just saying it’s running stable so the PDB is not in question (which I was concerned about)

Nope, not on this game -

I did notice that the backbox key ring was getting pushed between the coin door and the frame - i moved it. Not sure if it’s related but the game started working after that..

I think it’s more likely I measured something wrong. Well. I hope.

Today’s issue is that i think the 10-opto board may be messed up. I am going to swap it with the one from MB and see if it locks the balls properly. As of now it is losing track of the balls when they go in the lock. I am reasonably sure it is not the subway opto.

Update! 10-opto board from MB did the same thing. Good! So it's not the board. Tested the optos involved in the ball lock - as I'm getting to the last one (that detects a ball on the VUK which sends it to the Idol), I see a white wire just hanging off. Bingo! Fixed that, re-installed the opto. Played 2 nice games! Victory! Too bad my games sucked!