(Topic ID: 328776)

WPC DCS Sound is really distorted

By Phantasize

1 year ago



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#1 1 year ago

Hello everyone. I have a Williams STTNG that started having really bad sound. All of the sounds are there, but they sound quite low, and really distorted and almost like there is a layer of "white noise" over it.

The initial "bong" sound sounds loud and clear. Last time I turned it on, I let the machine stay powered on for about an hour, and when I went to check again, the sound was playing just fine (or at least much better). But today, when I powered it on again, the distortion was back. Waited about an hour again, and the sound definitely improves, but still have some distortion.

This video should give an idea of the problem:

Anyone have an idea where to start? I checked Pinwiki, but did not find anything that sounds related to my problem.

#2 1 year ago

It is highly likely that your sound board needs professional repair.

It's quite possible that the yellow tantalum capacitors located next to the audio amplifier outputs are incinerated.

Sound board repair can be tricky.

Coin Op Cauldron has a flat rate $125 repair on these, and though it might take a while to get back, I'd consider that a bargain.

Capacitors have a lifespan. I always figure about ten years. Considering that your board is thirty years old... there may be a whole host of capacitors that need replaced.

If you are doing your own work, consult the pinwiki:

https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#DCS_Sound_Board_Issues

Consider replacing all the electrolytic capacitors. Definitely consider testing/replacing all the yellow tantalum capacitors on all these Williams sound boards. There are some chips that are frequent failure points. My experience is that problems on these sound boards aren't as easy as 'if I put in a cap kit it'll work', but your experience may be different.

I do a lot of my own board repair, but this is one that I'd gladly send off.

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from PinRetail:

Consider replacing all the electrolytic capacitors.

OP: If you choose to do this with the radial snap-in capacitor, please take care not to pull the through hole. If you do pull the through hole you will need to restore it (stitch) or install a jumper to the appropriate locations.

Quoted from PinRetail:

but this is one that I'd gladly send off.

Agree. I hate this board. Particularly the OEM board. The traces and pads on the OEM board are tiny and weak. Very easy to remove pads and pull traces.

#4 1 year ago

Thanks for chiming in both of you. I was not aware that the sound board is so fiddly. I have done a decent amount of board repair myself on power driver and CPU boards, so I am fairly confident that I will be able to change components. But I will be sure to take extra care.

PinRetail I am not all that familiar with specific capacitor types, so when you say tantalum capacitors, could you possibly clarify? Are they located on the left or right side of amplifiers (when board is mounted in the backbox)? Or do you possibly have a couple of component numbers I could start with?

#5 1 year ago

Have you conducted the test that I described for you on another forum?

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Phantasize:

tantalum capacitors

I've lately (past three years) seen a lot of tantalum capacitor failure in the Williams Pre-DCS sound board. Good pictures in this thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/trying-to-fix-wpc-a-12738-sound-board-t2

I love the second picture in this thread. It shows clearly a view from the top of the heat sink. A tantalum capacitor is the yellow looks-like-a-resistor, and just above it is a failed tantalum capacitor that has incinerated itself. Further pictures in this thread show replacement tantalum capacitors installed in this Pre-DCS board. Hint: Look for yellow.

Tantalum capacitors have better temperature stability than inexpensive Electrolytic capacitors, but they fail differently. Electrolytic capacitors fail (usually) by the electrolyte drying out, or chemical failure that forms gas that vents out of the top. They will fail usually by just not reading the full value of their component (a 1000uf capacitor reading 816uf or even open on a good capacitor meter), or they will increase in ESR which requires a good capacitor meter:

https://www.amazon.com/Peak-Electronic-Design-Ltd-166225/dp/B005NIBEYU/ref=asc_df_B005NIBEYU/

When they fail by increasing ESR, sometimes you can feel the heat difference with your finger. A hot electrolytic capacitor is a likely candidate for replacement.

Tantalum capacitors can also change in value, but they usually fail by creating a dead short! Which creates a fire that incinerates the part. I've seen both failures in Pre-DCS sound board capacitors, the change in value and the charred remains.

Tantalum capacitors don't have to be yellow painted, but the supplier Williams used makes them fairly easy to spot. Tantalum is frequently used for values of 1-22uf. The tiny yellow bead capacitors that are .1uf, .01uf. .001uf, etc. are probably ceramic, so not every yellow capacitor on these boards is tantalum.

The parts list for your board would probably specify which are tantalum capacitors, but I did a quick look online and didn't find it.

Here is a link to something interesting:

https://www.bestofpinball.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22_271&products_id=5753&language=en

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Have you conducted the test that I described for you on another forum?

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

ChrisHibler - I did indeed, and also answered you in that thread (on Facebook). Thanks again for chiming in.

PinRetail thank you for that excellent writeup. I will definitely use it for future reference!

However, I think (fingers crossed) that I have it solved now! I was googling the issue some more, and came across this thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/distorted-sound-wpc-dcs

In that thread, OP had some distorted sound as well. However I did not think it sounded 100% like my own problem. But then the user "arolden" chimed in, with a video example of his similar problem. And that one sounded 100% like mine, also being temperature "sensitive". He found out using freeze spray that when cooling down U20 it got a lot worse. And when warming it up again it improved. He then solved his problem by swapping U20 (AD1851N) for a new one.

So I wanted to test to see if i could mirror his findings. My machine was quite warm, and the sound was maybe like 80% ok. So I turned it off, sprayed U20 with freeze spray, and powered it up again. And the sound was really really distorted again! So I thought my problem was also in the U20 area. And it felt that by touching U20 I could actually influence the level of distortion. After a couple of minutes it was back to being 80% ok.

So I pulled the board, and reflowed U20. And with the board back in the machine, the sound was clean and crisp from the first second. YAY!

So I actually think I got lucky, and just had a bad connection on U20.

#8 1 year ago

Well, it seems I was a little too fast... The problem is still there, although not nearly as severe when cold as before.

Perhaps reflowing heated up something inside the chip itself that made it better, but not perfect. So I am guessing a U20 replacement could still be a good idea?

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