(Topic ID: 10582)

WPC 95 DMD driver query...

By pinballslave

12 years ago


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  • 19 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by Borygard
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Cap_on_fuse.jpg
#1 12 years ago

I found this on the DMD diver in an AFM I got recently... is this someones way to turn a normal fuse into a slo-blow fuse??

I used this driver (which was working fine on the AFM) in a Congo (to see if it would fix a flickering DMD on Congo that is proving very hard to fix), and it appears to have killed the DMD totally... I'm scared to put it back in the AFM now in case it kills the DMD in that game too...

I'm guessing I should pull this cap-bridged fuse with something more standard before I fire it up in any game again... Anyone know what fuse should really go in F602?

Any clues as to why it would blow the DMD? It's totally dead... It's a Babcock, so all the components are exposed (as apposed to Cherry), so possibly fixable?

Any advice/guidence greatly appreciated before I slowly destroy everything I've got!!

Cap_on_fuse.jpgCap_on_fuse.jpg

#2 12 years ago

sorry slave, i don't have any advice or guidance
But that's one hell of a hack you've got there.

#3 12 years ago
Quoted from RawleyD:

But that's one hell of a hack you've got there.

You should see the other hacks on the AFM, it's quite entertaining

My concern with the driver is why the hack is there... I can easily swap the fuse with what should be there, but I'm guessing there's an underlying problem that made the hack necessary in the first place, and this problem could be what blew my DMD, and potentially others...

What I could really do with is some basic knowledge on how to trouble-shoot the DMD driver for WPC 95... Any links to good sites for this now the Marvin repair sire is no longer...?

#4 12 years ago

Section 3K of clays guides covers these displays. These tests are to be preformed with the DMD attcahed so just go through all the tests with the bad DMD. As for the hack...... One of the greatest I've seen.

http://www.thepirates.net.au/arcade/Pinball/PinRepair/Apr-11/Pinrepair/Pinrepair.com%20Repair%20Manuals%20Apr%202011/WPC%20Pinball%20Repair/WPC%20Repair%20Part%203.pdf

#5 12 years ago

well, i guess your first step could be to remove that yellow thing (still a newb here) and see what doesn't work.
Shorting that fuse by a previous owner has probably done loads of damage.

#6 12 years ago
Quoted from the_pin_family:

Section 3K of clays guides covers these displays. These tests are to be preformed with the DMD attcahed so just go through all the tests with the bad DMD. As for the hack...... One of the greatest I've seen.

Thanks for that link tpf, that looks the ticket!

Quoted from RawleyD:

Shorting that fuse by a previous owner has probably done loads of damage.

You're probably right, and that's probably why I have a dead DMD now instead of one that was just flickering a bit... although the yellow thing is a capacitor, so not a direct short, just a way to smooth out sudden large currents I guess, like a slo-blow fuse would, although the peak current and time factors of the original fuse are probably not accurately reproduced by the hack

#7 12 years ago

That's a capacitor.

It looks like there may be some charred components in the HV section. Not unusual on these boards.

My suggestions

Verify all 4 fuse values.

F601 and F602 - .315 amp
F501 and F502 - 2.5 amp

Put the right fuses in. Check the voltages from the HV section of the DMD controller. Which voltages are missing or out of spec?

J604

Pin 1: -125 volts (-110 to -130 volts); Williams lowered this voltage to -115.
Pin 2: -113 volts (-98 to -118 volts); Williams lowered this voltage to -103.
Pin 3: Key
Pin 4: Ground
Pin 5: Ground
Pin 6: +5 volts (4.9 to 5.2 volts)
Pin 7: +12 volts (10 to 14 volts)
Pin 8: +62 volts (58 to 68 volts)

Once you can advise what these voltages are, we can decide if the HV section needs rebuilt or not. That's the biggest problem with these boards.

What does the back of the board look like? Clean? Burnt up? How about the rest of the front of the board?

#8 12 years ago

Thanks johnwartjr, your help is humbling!!

On the original driver, where the DMD was flickering, I played the game for ages without an issue (apart from the flickering), I tried to cure this by changing the DMD and by adding a ribbon cable that had a ferric core on it... This original driver looks very clean. My last step to try and stop this flickering was to install the driver from another game which was working well on that game. On inspection, this has a lot of charring on the top right corner and on the rear, with some hacking/jumping going on. Here are the voltages I measured on each driver:

(Edit: I see Pinside has removed the spaces so the table's a bit messed up, but I'm sure you can work out what figures relate to what board)

Original that flickered DMD New that blew DMD
Pin1: -77 -117
Pin2: -55 -93
Pin6: +5.07 +5.07
Pin7: +11.86 +11.84
Pin8: +62 +66

Looks like the one furthest from spec is the one that didn't blow the DMD... I guess the +66v on Pin8 of the new board is what blew the DMD...??

So, what's your diagnosis?

Thanks again for all your help!!

Edit: On looking back at the voltage ranges, the 'bad' one (i.e. that resulted in the DMD dying) is pretty much in spec except on Pin2 where it's a bit low... but no-where near as bad as the board that was working but with a flickering display... Now I'm thinking that the original board is bad, and this somehow damaged the DMD, so that when I put the in-spec driver in, it couldn't cope with the sudden increases in voltage... so maybe the DMD was faulty anyway... Does this sound possible??

#9 12 years ago

We use those things(the yellow gizmo across the fuse) here at my work on miscellaneous pieces of electronics. It's actually a 'self-healing' fuse, not a capacitor. It's made to go 'open' when overloaded, then goes back to a 'closed' state when the load is removed, hence the name 'self-healing fuse'.

#10 12 years ago

OK, well that explains something. A little research indicates it is a fuse of some kind, 60v and 1/2 amp. Never seen one of those before! It looks just like a capacitor!

Why it ate a DMD, I'm not sure. I've never known an out of spec HV section to kill a DMD. Usually, they just stop working. Actually, I'd sooner guess that it was on its way out and you just got lucky, or perhaps something got static zapped while you were changing the displays out.

Pins 1 and 2 are the only ones that are really out of spec. F602 fuses the -113 and -125. F601 fuses the +62, and the +5 and +12 come from the driver, they just pass through the A/V board.

Both of those boards could use a HV section rebuild. How are you with soldering and using your meter? The parts aren't expensive, but if the board is already hacked, you might want to send them out.

A HV section rebuild isn't difficult, or even all that time consuming. But the A/V board is a $300 board, so it's not a good one to learn on. A good board to learn on is one in an old electronic device from a junk store.

The parts to rebuild are $5.50, but you'd want the 80 cents worth of caps while you're at it, they often go bad on WPC-95s and make the display 'roll' like an old television

http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=WPC95-HVP-KIT

You'd need a temp controlled soldering iron, some sort of desoldering tool, a meter with voltage and continuity tests, a pair of dykes, some 90% or better IPA (isopropryl alcohol), an old toothbrush, thermal paste, and the ability to read a schematic.

Again, if you don't know what you're doing, or are uncomfortable, this is not the board to learn on.

#11 12 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

Never seen one of those before! It looks just like a capacitor!

That's what I thought!

Quoted from johnwartjr:

Actually, I'd sooner guess that it was on its way out and you just got lucky, or perhaps something got static zapped while you were changing the displays out.

I turned the game off while changing any connectors (the the DMD and the driver). Yes, maybe it was on it's way out, and the higer voltage of the in spec driver pushed it over the edge...?

Quoted from johnwartjr:

You'd need a temp controlled soldering iron, some sort of desoldering tool, a meter with voltage and continuity tests, a pair of dykes, some 90% or better IPA (isopropryl alcohol), an old toothbrush, thermal paste, and the ability to read a schematic.

I'm OK with all of this, except the pair of dykes... where I come from this means lesbians... so am a bit lost on the nomenclature on this one

Thanks for the link to the greatplanes electronics, they certainly do cater well for the pinball community, and order will be placed!! And thanks for all your help... I can do the repair, I just have a lack of understanding of electronics... a big negative in this hobby, so I really appreciate all the advice I get... I'd love to sit down with someone who knows about all this for a day or two and get taught the basics so I don't have to ask such dumb questions all the time...

By the way, on the now dead DMD (which wasn't outgassed, so a shame to lose), I seem to remember reading that these are not so hard to repair... maybe greatplanes sell a kit for them too which includes all the common components that will fix 90% of duff ones?? The board looks like new, there was no smoke or bad smell or audible 'pop' when it went... I just saw around 30 dots light up in a roughly vertical line in the middle when I powered up, and that was the end of it...

#12 12 years ago

The term 'dyke' has at least 3 terms in US English that I know The one I was using would be for a small pair of snips to cut wire or component leads. Once you install the diodes from this kit, you need to snip off the excess lead before reinstalling the board - otherwise, you'll short it out in the backbox.

I wish I understood why the display failed. The voltages are within spec as to what they should be. It's a mystery to me.

Display repair is something I have only tackled a few times - and have rarely been successful. The only times I've been successful is when the display had pin leads and one was broken - and that was only 1 occasion out of about 4 tries.

#13 12 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

The one I was using would be for a small pair of snips to cut wire or component leads.

I'm not aware of any 'slang' term for these in UK English... we just call 'em 'side cutters'...

I've doug out an almost dead DMD from my stash this morning (lines out, de-gassed and a bad ghost) which I'm going to try with the most in spec driver (the one that apparently blew the display that was in there) and see if it blows this one too (clearly not an issue if it does apart from me losing a good board to do tests like this!!).

I've managed to fix lines out in the past on pin leg types (i.e. not ribbon connector type) by granding the glass away at the failed leg with a Dremmel 'till I can see the shine of the metal as it goes through the glass, and getting some solder to stick to that... it's very tricky though, and I'm not sure it's good for my health, all that glass dust flying around can't be good!!??

Maybe I was dreaming, but I could have sworn that I read somewhere that 90% of blown DMD boards are easily fixed...??

#14 12 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

The parts to rebuild are $5.50, but you'd want the 80 cents worth of caps while you're at it, they often go bad on WPC-95s and make the display 'roll' like an old television

http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=WPC95-HVP-KIT

Damn, they're out of stock on these... I've asked to be notified when they're back in... Alternatively I could work through the list of parts and order 'em seperately I guess...

1 year later
#15 11 years ago

That's not a capacitor, it is a PTC Resettable Fuse. Resistance goes to megohms when you exceed the current rating. When it cools back down resistance goes to zero. Not recommended for replacing a fast-blow fuse with a PTC.

dykes = diagonal cutters

#16 11 years ago

The board looks pretty charred and carbon scoring WILL conduct, so that very well could be the cause of your flickering.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#17 11 years ago

I had DMD get blown recently by a power surge. It sucks because the components are too small to replace. If you figure out how to do it, I would like to know.

#18 11 years ago

I'm kind of thinking this issue was solved a year ago when it was posted.

#19 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I'm kind of thinking this issue was solved a year ago when it was posted.

That's funny!

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

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