(Topic ID: 177197)

WPC '89 cpu board info

By zaza

7 years ago


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  • 49 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by lays526
  • Topic is favorited by 89 Pinsiders

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WPC89 CPU compnt nov2021.pdf (PDF preview)
WPC 95  4-1-21 (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
wpc89_cpu_u8.jpg
Untitled (resized).png
switches schematic.jpg
audio sngl Ux.jpg
untitled (resized).png
20180306_200509 (resized).jpg
page3 part.jpg
U18 3+12 short.png
Untitled (resized).png
Untitled (resized).png
SW MX test with wire.gif
wpc89-switch cqt voltage open-closed.gif
24
#1 7 years ago

Work in progress picture of A-12742 WPC89 board with data+address lines.
Keep an eye on this thread for a more complete version soon. (jan.2017)

sneak pv.jpgsneak pv.jpg

edit 2017jan13: --deleted-- Bigger Picture. Need to check all data but quite happy with it already.

edit 2017jan20: --deleted-- pdf test:

edit 2017jan21: (previous versions deleted) FINAL version:

edit 2021nov30: R39->R99 ( thanks lays526 )

only with PDF it will stay as an uncompressed bitmap so PDF it is.

WPC89 CPU compnt nov2021.pdfWPC89 CPU compnt nov2021.pdf

#2 7 years ago

Oh wow, this will be nice. Thanks!

#3 7 years ago

Picture with colored resistors.
Handy for rebuild after leaking batteries damaged the lower part of the CPU-board.

scalable pdf:
cpu89 resistor.pdfcpu89 resistor.pdf

#4 7 years ago

Zaza, you're a tease! haha.
I hope you have plans to do WPC-S and WPC95 drawings as well.

#5 7 years ago


Yeas, I did also WPC-s and WPC95 layout but not as detailed as WPC'89. Not sure when/if I'm gonna finish them.

The mirrored version of WPC'89 (view from solder side) is also almost ready and will be placed here as well. (and likely on pinwiki).
There will be empty spaces in that picture to keep it more clear and only relevant to measure connections to ASIC and other data/address lines.

U9 flipped.jpgU9 flipped.jpg

Flipped version of the CPU-board. ASIC is easier to measure from this side.
pict:
WPC89 CPU solder-side ZAZA-1a.pdfWPC89 CPU solder-side ZAZA-1a.pdf

#6 7 years ago

Nice work, as usual, zaza.

#7 7 years ago

Final version ASIC : 2017/01/30
ASIC WPC pinwiki --final--.jpgASIC WPC pinwiki --final--.jpg

2 weeks later
#8 7 years ago

Amazing work. Thank you for the contributions.

1 week later
#9 7 years ago

tiny pic cpu-board:
WPC89 CPU small.PNGWPC89 CPU small.PNG

L.E.D. function (from manual):
diag flash.gifdiag flash.gif

Voltage on switch inputs:
wpc89-switch cqt voltage open-closed.gifwpc89-switch cqt voltage open-closed.gif

2 months later
#10 7 years ago

I just found a broken trace on a board I was working on using your diagrams. Thank you!

3 months later
#11 7 years ago

switch matrix test with jumper wire:

(1) GND to ROW1-8 ___ (2) COLUMN1 to ROW1-8 ___ (3) ROW1 to COLUMN1-8
SW MX test with wire.gifSW MX test with wire.gif

4 months later
#12 6 years ago

Great topic.
Can I get the pdf version of the layout?

ps. I got it

1 month later
#13 6 years ago

I just noticed a discrepancy between the WPC89 and WPC95 schematic with the ASIC chip. Pin 48 and pin 50 are reversed. I'd assume the WPC 95 schematic is correct because it is newer, but I havent checked a real PCB yet.

89 schem left. 95 schem right.
Untitled (resized).pngUntitled (resized).png

#14 6 years ago

Correct,

in the '89 manual, sw-dir and sw-row are wrong assigned.
The ASIC in post#7 has the correct pinout for all switch related pins in 'yellow'

The manual has also an inconsistentcy in sol#1-sol#4. On the page with WPC-CPU, the sol-enables are mixed up with the next pages of the PowerDriverBoard.
Therefor the ASIC picture in post #7, sol#1-#4 are accompanied with the actual solenoid group.
e.g. sol#1 = 25-28

#15 6 years ago

I believe this is another WPC89 schematic error. On the schematic drawing U17A and U17B need swapped compared to the PCB. U18A and U18B also need swapped on the schematic compared to the drawing.

Proposed corrections in red. This one needs double checked too. Looks like the schematic drawing got penciled in changed but the board didnt update. The WPC95 schem has the gates drawn the same way, so perhaps the change actually happened on later boards?? Might have been last minute change to make the track routing easier.

Untitled (resized).pngUntitled (resized).png

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

another WPC89 schematic error

And don't forget about the supply on pin 3 + 12 joined together. That will get messy

U18 3+12 short.pngU18 3+12 short.png

Better use the full picture in post #1 when troubleshooting the switches, it is verified over and over again.
When I'm doing repairs on this CPU-board, all I need is that picture.

#17 6 years ago

Oh wow Zaza i didn't see that picture with the complete pin out because some bonehead marked it as "unsafe picture". I clicked show anyways and then bang.... Nice work. I recreated the entire schematic and that would have helped me out. Some moderator should "un hide" that picture.

#18 6 years ago


that would be me as I made it only visible for Pinsiders this way.
With settings 'auto hide' one level higher, you can see all hidden pictures without having to click them open.

1 month later
#19 6 years ago

Built a WPC 89 prototype today and found that J205 is all mixed on the schematic compared to a real PCB. Pin5 is key, not pin10. Pin10 is ground not pin11.

Looks like Zaza has the direct switches, ground, and the keying corrected on his pin out map. The enable pin is indeed still pin12 (goes to q1).

#20 6 years ago

You post more informative stuff with awesome diagrams and explanations in this one thread then some "arm chair wise-cracking" pinsiders do for 5-6 years.

Please don't ever leave, zaza.

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

corrected on his pin out map

ah, remember the time when we had a paper manual in our toolkit. Nowadays it's all digital
page3 part.jpgpage3 part.jpg

Quoted from NPO:

Please don't ever leave

thanks NPO,
don't worry, I won't leave this site.

#22 6 years ago

Have to say the WPC89 original schematic has by far the most errors on it of any pinball pcb i have tried to recreate. I don't think I have ever noticed a problem with old Bally schematics.

I almost wonder if they where worried someone like DE was going to rip off their engineering design again, but I guess that ASIC would be a road block. Probably just a bad schematic drawing and the guy doing the board layout fixed or changed a bunch of stuff that never made it in.

All fixed =D

20180306_200509 (resized).jpg20180306_200509 (resized).jpg

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Have to say the WPC89 original schematic has by far the most errors on it of any pinball pcb i have tried to recreate. I don't think I have ever noticed a problem with old Bally schematics.
I almost wonder if they where worried someone like DE was going to rip off their engineering design again, but I guess that ASIC would be a road block. Probably just a bad schematic drawing and the guy doing the board layout fixed or changed a bunch of stuff that never made it in.
All fixed =D

Woah, woah, woah. What is this. Art-class for beginners?
untitled (resized).pnguntitled (resized).png
90 dregree, then 45, then 90 again?

Sheesh! Amateur!

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Woah, woah, woah. What is this. Art-class for beginners?

90 dregree, then 45, then 90 again?
Sheesh! Amateur!

I have been professionally trained, by myself =D.

Why does everyone hate right angles on PCB design? The electrons are not going to fly out of alignment.

You should see what the autorouter does when you let it rip. It's like computer generated abstract art.

#25 6 years ago

Is anyone going to consolidate and correct all the mistakes and create a corrected version of the CPU schematics? It would be nice to put it in the WPC schematic booklet and void the original. I guess same goes with the PDB, sound, DMD driver and any other WPC boards if they are wrong.

#26 6 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I have been professionally trained, by myself =D.
Why does everyone hate right angles on PCB design? The electrons are not going to fly out of alignment.
You should see what the autorouter does when you let it rip. It's like computer generated abstract art.

I was just teasing.

Personally, i was taught to use 45-degree angles - not for fear of losing electrons, but back in the earlier days of PCB, the copper 90'degree corners lifted a lot easier, leading to broken traces.

Quoted from schudel5:

Is anyone going to consolidate and correct all the mistakes and create a corrected version of the CPU schematics? It would be nice to put it in the WPC schematic booklet and void the original. I guess same goes with the PDB, sound, DMD driver and any other WPC boards if they are wrong.

Hell, the pre-DCS schematics (that I have, anyways) literally have two chips listed as "U?". Apparently, the schematics were never corrected once the final board went to manufacturer.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Is anyone going to consolidate and correct all the mistakes and create a corrected version of the CPU schematics?

Not me. Sometimes I make notes / corrections in the schematics with a marker or pencil like picture in post#21 or here below.

Quoted from Coyote:

two chips listed as "U?

you mean U1 and U5
audio sngl Ux.jpgaudio sngl Ux.jpg

#28 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

you mean U1 and U5

Yup.

#29 6 years ago

Did you notice the 'vcc' at U5-8 and u1-5 ? Better not connect them together because U1-5 is the +25V power for the amplifier.

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Did you notice the 'vcc' at U5-8 and u1-5 ? Better not connect them together because U1-5 is the +25V power for the amplifier.

In WMS defence there, the chip's 8designation* for that pin (i.e. What's marked in the datasheet) is VCC. However, if you follow the trace (which should always be done - never base net connections on what mfg's call/name chip pins) it is connected to the '+12A' signal.

I'm rebuilding a pre-DCS sound board (for my own use.. if it comes out successful, and others want it, I may have some made), and 99% of my time has been verifying what's on the schematic to what's actually on the board - not counting chips with multiple gates (i.e. 2 AND gates - I don't care if the schematics have the wrong fate listed.. Operationally it's still the same.)..

#31 6 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

and 99% of my time has been verifying what's on the schematic to what's actually on the board

Yes, verifying is time consuming with drwaing schematics and pictures.
That makes me think that the errors are not made deliberately in the manuals but caused by time frame limit.

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Yes, verifying is time consuming with drwaing schematics and pictures.
That makes me think that the errors are not made deliberately in the manuals but caused by time frame limit.

I agree - usually deliberate errors (like what used to be done on paper maps years past) were OBVIOUS once you caught it, but were small enough that unless you were looking for it, it wouldn't get noticed. (A driveway with a road name? A road that makes a sharp turn to the right and dead ends?)..

#33 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

ah, remember the time when we had a paper manual in our toolkit. Nowadays it's all digital

I still have my paper manual...I just need a magnifier to read it anymore

I need to pull the staples and make a high resolution PDF out of it

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I need to pull the staples and make a high resolution PDF out of it

Made a beginning, the switch circuits on the CPU'89-board. Number of corrections made... a lot:
switches schematic.jpgswitches schematic.jpg

Quoted from Pin_Guy:

need a magnifier to read it

Same here, reading glasses all over the place.

#35 6 years ago

I am typing in RED, like shown the post I made a few months back, on top of the WPC89 schematic PDF the errors I found which I can probably release.

With Zaza's help, I ~~~ THINK ~~~ , have found them all as i got my WPC89 prototype booting up and playing HSII just fine.

#36 6 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

as i got my WPC89 prototype booting up and playing HSII just fine.

well done ! congrats and respect

#37 6 years ago

Having poured through (and cursed at) my WPC schematic manual, I thank you for cleaning this stuff up. This will make working on these boards so much easier.

1 year later
#38 4 years ago

up for easy way back

1 month later
#39 4 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

ah, remember the time when we had a paper manual in our toolkit. Nowadays it's all digital

So you did an analog to digital post.

#40 4 years ago


Yes, can't even imagine what to do with only the paper manuals these days.
The digital schematics/manuals are so easy to acces.

1 year later
#41 3 years ago

WMS schematic for the RAM chip shows JEDEC pin out. Actual PCB seems to have address bits re-arranged. Zaza's diagram looks like it is correct.

It may not be consistent across every WPC89. Noticed this because I swapped WPC89 CPU boards between drac and HS2. Wanting to retain high scores i moved the NVRAM chip with the ROM but both boards did a restore factory settings on first boot which triggered me to look at the address pins.

Untitled (resized).pngUntitled (resized).png

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

WMS schematic for the RAM chip shows JEDEC pin out. Actual PCB seems to have address bits re-arranged. Zaza's diagram looks like it is correct.

I can confirm this is correct. This is from the schematic for my reproduction board. It's identical to zaza's diagram.

wpc89_cpu_u8.jpgwpc89_cpu_u8.jpg
#43 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

I can confirm this is correct. This is from the schematic for my reproduction board. It's identical to zaza's diagram.
[quoted image]

I was wondering if anyone noticed address wire up changes across the different WPC89 revisions. I may have to pull both MPUs out and compare. To the processor it does not care what order the address bits are laid out on the RAM. But if A2 swaps A4 on two different MPUs then the RAM (contents) will not be compatible to move to one board to the other without reformatting to restore factory settings. I think something like that is going on otherwise the NVRAM should be able to move with the ROM to a new board and not get a restore factory settings.

for example if you look at CY6264 they lay out the address bits in a different order than the "jedec" standard.
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

For "jedec" it looks like this (which is schematic)
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

To the processor it does not care what order the address bits are laid out on the RAM.

I agree that this is true when in the same closed system. As long as the bits are accessed in a consistent manner it doesn't matter if it's A0 or A1 as long it's consistent.

Quoted from barakandl:

I think something like that is going on otherwise the NVRAM should be able to move with the ROM to a new board and not get a restore factory settings.

Have you considered the language DIP settings? If you change those then you get a factory reset.

#45 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Have you considered the language DIP settings? If you change those then you get a factory reset.

Ahh, they are different on each board. Never considered that. I backed up the HSII NVRAM with a burner after lost Dracula, so should be able to restore at least one game's memory.

4 months later
10
#46 3 years ago

After many weeks of verifing data and removing all errors , finally got the WPC95 version ready for download:

WPC 95  4-1-21 (resized).pngWPC 95 4-1-21 (resized).png

#47 3 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

After many weeks of verifing data and removing all errors , finally got the WPC95 version ready for download:

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

After many weeks of verifing data and removing all errors , finally got the WPC95 version ready for download:
[quoted image]

Lol.

8 months later
#49 2 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I just noticed a discrepancy between the WPC89 and WPC95 schematic with the ASIC chip. Pin 48 and pin 50 are reversed. I'd assume the WPC 95 schematic is correct because it is newer, but I havent checked a real PCB yet.
89 schem left. 95 schem right.
[quoted image]

The text is wrong, but pin numbering is correct on wpc89

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