(Topic ID: 86044)

WPC 2.0(tm) - Extensions to WPC 2.0 games (from TPF PPS seminar) ...

By PPS

10 years ago


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#314 10 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

I think we will be working towards a way to get 'vetted' volunteers to help, but need to figure out how that could work. Original source code is more difficult than re-written stuff for a bunch of reasons ... but as per previous thread about wms code fixes, we are still working to get that going and I'm just getting all the pieces finally lined up on that.
The original wms code is really tricky and requires a complex debug environment to insure that timing issues are not introduced and if they are to debug them. In the 6809 world there are tight tolerances (even sometimes if they are running on a beaglebone) that has to be respected.
rick

That is just the tip of the iceberg. 6809 uses paged memory which, for me, has been a constant nightmare. There are about 100 problems I can think of from my experience with freewpc. I had a timing bug set a coil on fire once - and the code was working perfectly- the timing was just off by about 50ms.

page faults typically cause a game to crash but if they don't you can have completely unpredictable behavior. since you are writing bits into the wrong page, absolutely anything can happen.

I really hope your system protects against all of this and I am looking forward to it myself. With freewpc I would caution someone who has no clue in what they are doing from attempting to write code because you are coding at the hardware level. If what you all are saying is true then this is great but I am dubious until I see it.

#316 10 years ago
Quoted from BrianMadden:

Ok, after reading through all these pages it seems like that it would be ok for someone to build new game code from scratch that did not use any of the original game's assets. (sound, DMD art, etc.) And it seems they would be allowed to sell that code and that it could be on any platform.

if all your code is original and not one line is reused then you are correct -there is no legal claim. And also you cannot reuse the name or any copyrighted material. That is why you have new code for twilight zone called "back in the zone" and new code for demolition man called "demolition time". Those ports are fine because they do not have one line of williams code and are written completely from scratch. They are legal.

All this talk of modifying williams code is very promising but is, I suspect, going to be controlled to a fashion because it still contains williams IP.

If you want to rewrite a game from scratch, there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from doing that right now. It will take you a while though.

#394 10 years ago
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:

Again I'll point out, PPS can afford legal representation, I cannot. Even if their case is completely bogus, I will have no way to fight it.

Hey Sonny, "Back in the Zone" is completely safe as written. I spent a lot of hours reading through your code when I was first stating writing mine, by the way. I had a few long conversations with Rick after I released "Demolition Time" and he was okay with my work. Your code, like mine, is written from scratch and has no williams code in it so they have no claim on your IP.

I also understand his position. He is the gatekeeper for the williams IP and if he is seen as not doing his part in protecting it, then williams may not be so hospitable in letting him do what he is doing. Neither "back in the zone" nor "demolition time" use any of williams IP so they are fine.

Now, having said that, there is another question that I think will come into play with this new system concerning the sound roms. Both of our codes reprogram the CPU chip, but use the original sound roms, legally, since they are on a different board which we do not touch. On the new hardware, I suspect that this will not be the case. If so, it would appear that if we used the original sounds we would have to do things much differently and probably work it in such a way that PPS has some control over what we do. Or we would have to create new custom sounds. Either way it is an additional hurdle.

My thoughts are that the fast pinball SDK better be really solid for me to want to switch if they are going to put up barriers to the way I write code.

6 years later
#539 3 years ago
Quoted from Compy:

This has been done before.
Call up PPS, tell them what you want to do, see about negotiating a royalty deal on a per-unit basis as well as access to original game assets and get busy.
This is also a hardware-independent solution. Toss a P-ROC in there and go if you can't get your hands on another WPC-based control system.
Rick may be brash, but he's a businessman, and deals like this have been made before (IE: BoP 2.0)
(This applies solely to unlicensed/original themes in the WMS/BLY lineup)

This is exactly true. PPS is working with me for NGG2.0. For other licenses, I am guessing he would be open to a business proposal as well.

But as others have said, it is difficult to get the economics to work. Just the hardware alone, depending on component choices, could drive the costs north of $800 to $1000. P-Roc, LCD monitor, and computer. Add it up. Then you have to add in all the costs of development and man-hours. And one person can't do everything. I purchased assets I couldn't make myself such as music, sound effects, etc. I wrote the code but I'm not a full-fledged development team.

I am really excited about the new hardware solutions such as APC that cold drive those hardware costs down and potentially allow for more projects to come to market, however, it is my opinion that there are not many developers out there that are stupid enough as I am to put a couple of thousand hours into a project and sell it for a few sheckels over cost.

2 years later
#547 1 year ago

No Good Gofers: Battle For The Green (NGG:B4G)
A Licensed “2.0” Upgrade Kit by Cardona Pinball Designs
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MSRP $1999US

Includes everything you need to install No Good Gofers: Battle For The Green into a No Good Gofers Pinball machine.
• Speaker panel with (2) 4" Flipper Fidelity speakers, an industrial 15.6 inch monitor, and associated cabling.
• FAST Interface controller board (to be installed in the removed CPU location).
• CPU panel that includes CPU, FAST audio and accessory controller, and associated cabling (to be installed in the removed audio/video board location).
• Power Supply with fuse block and associated cabling.

Note: Interface controller offers the ability to add future expansion components such as shaker motors, RGB lighting kits, and the "Gofer Motion" Topper .

About No Good Gofers: Battle For The Green:
A wandering bear is head-struck by a golf ball and loses all his memory--even that he is a bear! Buzz, a mischievous munchkin of a gopher hates all golfers. When Buzz discovers the bear, he names him Bud and convinces him that he's really a gopher too. With Bud's raw strength, Buzz hatches a plan to take the golfers out and reclaim the course!

The music, animations, voice work, and sound effects follow this comical and cartoon-ish vein and were made to be accessible to all. Buzz tends to be critical and confrontational of the player's shots. Bud, on the other hand, is the comic relief of the team. He's a bear that thinks he's really an over-sized gopher. Let’s just say he’s a little slow on the uptake.

Resellers:
https://cardonapinball.com/products

https://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PPM-KIT-NGG-BATTLE

cardonapinball.com contains the below links to videos of game play, installation of a kit, pre-installation steps, troubleshooting, and a demo video as well as manuals, flyers, promo material, and other documents.

Questions:
Does your kit include side art or a new backglass?
Not in the kit, however, we have contacted an industry leading artist to create new backglass artwork and we plan on offering this as an upgrade option for those who want it once the artist is done.

Can your kit play the original game?
Yes. The NGG:B4G upgrade kit will not only play the new game but players can also select the original game from a menu. Additionally, in future updates we plan to add functionality to the original game where appropriate.

About Cardona Pinball Designs:
Cardona Pinball Designs is licensed by Planetary Pinball Supply to create 2.0 game kits for Bally-Williams titles and has been working toward this end for approximately four years. Our main expertise is software and we subcontract or partner with professionals for other specialized work. For example, FAST is creating our hardware and we also use several artists and voice actors for content creation. We expect to release another licensed title in 2023 and two more licensed titles in 2024.

Our titles receive heavy public beta testing. NGG:B4G has been at The Pinball Gallery in Malvern, Pennsylvania ( https://pinballgallery.net) and at the Delaware Pinball Collective in Wilmington, Delaware since September 2020 ( https://www.delawarepinballcollective.com).

NGG:B4G has also been to several pinball shows such as:
• White Rose Gameroom Show ( http://www.theyorkshow.com)
• PinFest (http://www.pinfestival.com)
• Golden State Pinball Festival (https://www.goldenstatepinball.org)
• Northwest Pinball and Gameroom Show (http://www.nwpinballshow.com)
• Pin-a-go-go (http://www.pin-a-go-go.org)
• Texas Pinball Festival (https://www.texaspinball.com )

game rules

game play



installation video

troubleshooting videos


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