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(Topic ID: 86044)

WPC 2.0(tm) - Extensions to WPC 2.0 games (from TPF PPS seminar) ...


By PPS

6 years ago



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  • 544 posts
  • 144 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by uncivil_engineer
  • Topic is favorited by 100 Pinsiders

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There are 544 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 11.
#401 6 years ago
Quoted from ecurtz:

Wait, there's a TechShop equivalent in Tacoma that's been open for a year? Nobody ever tells me anything.

image-225.jpg

#402 6 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Yep. Ecurtz are you local? Do we know each other?
Aaron

I'm in Olympia, but I don't think we've met, since I don't go to tournaments or anything, and if they take my stapler I'm going to burn the building down.

#403 6 years ago

Aaron,

Are you coming out to Midwest Gaming Classic this weekend (04/11-04/12)?

#404 6 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Yep. Ecurtz are you local? Do we know each other?
Aaron

You may know him as "the guy who wrote the Tron mini arcade code."

#405 6 years ago

I love my CV don't get me wrong, but I think it would be nice to have the option to keep the ringmaster under the playfield during attract mode.

Currently when you hit start on the machine the game starts and the ringmaster retracts and goes under the playfield.

Could you imagine the first time you've seen the ringmaster is when he popped up onto the playfield?

I personally think that would have been much better than seeing it disappear at the start of the game only to appear later. Potential surprise is ruined right at the beginning of the game with the way it currently is.

#406 6 years ago
Quoted from Sparky:

You may know him as "the guy who wrote the Tron mini arcade code."

And the guy who invented the Tron Pro fiber ramp kit

#407 6 years ago
Quoted from lyzanxia:

And the guy who invented the Tron Pro fiber ramp kit

And designed and made his own ("simple") driver boards, and is/was working on Frank pinball... Not sure what happened to that last one.

This thread is actually filled with some heavy hitters.

Mark/Snux, for example, designed the System 11 driver board for P-ROC, extended the PinMame source to allow running on real P-ROC'd/System 11 hardware, had made a ton of progress on his DMD conversion of F-14 (F-14 Second Sortie) before deciding to start over, and is now playing with Adafruit trinkets in his machines.
http://www.youtube.com/user/snux1000

These guys are too modest.

#408 6 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

These guys are too modest.

*Blush*

#409 6 years ago
Quoted from pzy:

Can I just say how stupid I think it is that there's even enforceable copyright on 20+ year old pinball code

Talk to your congressmen. We're at 120 years right now and we're going to see the fight start up again in a few years because the early Mickey Mouse films will be entering public domain in 2020.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act

#410 6 years ago

When is Taxi 2021 coming out?

#411 6 years ago

Guys ... I will give you an idea of what does work pretty easily as an example - the Dutch Pinball guys came to me with a proposal - an overall solution for the customer - code, artwork, hardware, etc, all the pieces, how they want to price and then sell it, how they would like it sold, etc. Those were pretty simple conversations, and then we put an agreement together (which can now be duplicated) and the rest is history, so BOP 2.0 is now happening.

So, as all the posts have said, if you are not using (or contributing to people using) ANY wms IP, then do whatever you want however you want to, if you are using wms IP, then best to contact me to see if this falls into the 'we care' realm and then best to have an idea of what you would like done with it. And of course giving away or making available wms IP is just not going to fly now that we have opened up a door with wms to do it legitimately. I'm not sure when people are given a way to utilize wms ip, then the posts take a larger percentage of trying to figure a way around it, that was not the goal, but a way to create upgrades to games for people to enjoy.

SO, you have my phone number 408-891-7878 or email me at rick@planetarypinball.com so if you have any questions, please call and we can discuss.

thanks,
rick

#412 6 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

Those were pretty simple conversations,

So, they were taking pre-orders at expo and you guys just worked out the agreement, so it took about 5 months and that was a 'simple' one. I'd hate to see how long a complex one will take

Sounds like you believe the next "simple" one will take less time. Time will tell.

#413 6 years ago

I am sure next time someone will use wms stuff, they will contact pps before their product reaches gold status.

#414 6 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

So, they were taking pre-orders at expo and you guys just worked out the agreement, so it took about 5 months and that was a 'simple' one. I'd hate to see how long a complex one will take
Sounds like you believe the next "simple" one will take less time. Time will tell.

lol ...

#415 6 years ago

what we have now is a template agreement which when we got that from wms on 3/14, it was just a matter of going thru that, making some final adjustments (which will make it much easier for the next time), and then we have the agreement with DP announced on 3/28 ... good try.

-4
#416 6 years ago

Is it possible to post this agreement so we can see it ???

#417 6 years ago
Quoted from Bonnevil69:

Is it possible to post this agreement so we can see it ???

why would they post a legal agreement here???

#418 6 years ago

All kinds of companies post legal agreements online. Most do actually. Sample contracts are pretty common in the business world. I send off sample contracts about once a week. Especially standard ones.

#419 6 years ago

Or perhaps you cant post it on your website. It would really be benificial to anybody getting into writing thier own code for an existing game. Maybe if they see it, it will entice them to start a project. Or maybe if your being ureasonable the community of programmers and designers can help make it fair.

#420 6 years ago

The dude gave out his phone number, if anyone is serious they know what number to dial.

#421 6 years ago

It really is a simple request.

#422 6 years ago
Quoted from Bonnevil69:

It really is a simple request.

Rick has said many times, if you have a project that uses WMS IP which you wish to license, contact him and present your project for review. It is not a complicated process.

Do you have a project you are currently working on that uses WMS IP? Relthman made a great post summing it up. If you want more clarification, send me some info about it and I can probably tell you at a glance what you are up against.

Aaron

#423 6 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

And designed and made his own ("simple") driver boards, and is/was working on Frank pinball... Not sure what happened to that last one.
This thread is actually filled with some heavy hitters.
Mark/Snux, for example, designed the System 11 driver board for P-ROC, extended the PinMame source to allow running on real P-ROC'd/System 11 hardware, had made a ton of progress on his DMD conversion of F-14 (F-14 Second Sortie) before deciding to start over, and is now playing with Adafruit trinkets in his machines.
http://www.youtube.com/user/snux1000
These guys are too modest.

Love that radar effect!

Aaron

#424 6 years ago

Its worth checking out Marks F-14 Second Sortie just to look how nice the cab is turning out. Looks amazing

#425 6 years ago

I don't want to derail this thread (any more than it was already), so when I get the F14 back I'll post a thread here with a bunch of photos. I can't claim the credit for the work on the cab as I don't have the skills, tools, space or time to do it but I'll be doing the playfield swap and all the P-ROC work.

You can read more about the cab here :

http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?topic=1060.0

And one taster photo :

image31 (Small).jpeg

#426 6 years ago

1) I am happy I have a FH

2) What a clever use of tech to breath new life into these old pins.

Kudos!

#427 6 years ago

Any chance on a Gillian's island 2.0?

#428 6 years ago

What are you using for a distro on the BeagleBone? Every once in a while I get a little tempted to work on an optimized minimal system for the BeagleBone or Raspberry Pi for home-brew machines, but I pretty quickly remember how much I hate hacking Linux.

1 week later
#429 6 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

Guys ... I will give you an idea of what does work pretty easily as an example - the Dutch Pinball guys came to me with a proposal - an overall solution for the customer - code, artwork, hardware, etc, all the pieces, how they want to price and then sell it, how they would like it sold, etc. Those were pretty simple conversations, and then we put an agreement together (which can now be duplicated) and the rest is history, so BOP 2.0 is now happening.
So, as all the posts have said, if you are not using (or contributing to people using) ANY wms IP, then do whatever you want however you want to, if you are using wms IP, then best to contact me to see if this falls into the 'we care' realm and then best to have an idea of what you would like done with it. And of course giving away or making available wms IP is just not going to fly now that we have opened up a door with wms to do it legitimately. I'm not sure when people are given a way to utilize wms ip, then the posts take a larger percentage of trying to figure a way around it, that was not the goal, but a way to create upgrades to games for people to enjoy.
SO, you have my phone number 408-891-7878 or email me at rick@planetarypinball.com so if you have any questions, please call and we can discuss.
thanks,
rick

Seems like the contention is mostly from the fact that there are a few projects that happened before there was any legal avenue for this. Nobody pursued those and they matured. Now a new system that those projects don't really fit in is *likely* to become available "soon" and all the sudden those projects are being threatened much more heavily.

Might be nice to just grandfather the existing projects into legality to create some community good-will somehow and call it a day on those. *shrug* Otherwise, well, it seems the ugliness is going to continue and nobody benefits.

Or maybe it's just CCC. The difference with BOP 2.0 is they wanted to sell it and believe they can make money doing so. Eric never wanted to sell CCC and just did it for fun and it exploded. Now he, and those running it, are getting threatened. But it doesn't HAVE to be that way.

--Donnie

#430 6 years ago
Quoted from djb_rh:

Seems like the contention is mostly from the fact that there are a few projects that happened before there was any legal avenue for this. Nobody pursued those and they matured. Now a new system that those projects don't really fit in is *likely* to become available "soon" and all the sudden those projects are being threatened much more heavily.
Might be nice to just grandfather the existing projects into legality to create some community good-will somehow and call it a day on those. *shrug* Otherwise, well, it seems the ugliness is going to continue and nobody benefits.
Or maybe it's just CCC. The difference with BOP 2.0 is they wanted to sell it and believe they can make money doing so. Eric never wanted to sell CCC and just did it for fun and it exploded. Now he, and those running it, are getting threatened. But it doesn't HAVE to be that way.
--Donnie

that same kind of BS happens with other stuff. With PC games with mods / remakes some people don't make a issues out of it others make a big deal out it and the end uses are the ones who get hurt.

#431 6 years ago

There's just got to be a way to compromise that makes everyone happy.

I know Rick's probably unhappy because he wants to remake CC but everyone keeps saying "I'm in, as long as it'll play CCC!!!" And Rick's hardware can't do that. And Rick may have a right to stop CCC on the basis that it reuses some WMS art (I'm not sure, but that *seems* to be the case), which would mean NOBODY could get CCC. Which would, in theory, help his cause toward selling CCR, especially if he extended the code to something similar to CCC, at least.

But it's going to piss off a lot of people in the community to go that route. And to what end?

Why not see if there's a way to convince Eric to port CCC to the new hardware? As in "here's some free hardware to do the port, and if you do it then we'll forgive the current work that's out there and you can support both as a 'free' add-on to CCR." I mean Eric may not go for it, but maybe it's a start to making EVERYONE happy rather than this rift. And if this road has been tried before, well, keep trying. The thinly veiled threats of "yet" are unsettling to those of us watching at home. The problem with quoting the Nintendo vs Galoog (or whatever it was) is that Galoog was making enough money to defend themselves. Eric is just trying to give away cool work.

On the P-ROC topic...

It would have been cool if Fast's hardware was really just a beaglebone plugged into a P-ROC, but apparently they wanted to do their own hardware for one reason or another. Gerry's tweaked by that, and I can understand why. But at the end of the day, nobody is evil for doing that. They apparently have their reasons, and they had a right to do it that way if they wanted. Sure would be cool if the Fast software could run on a beaglebone plugged into a P-ROC, but I'm guessing architectural differences will make that hard enough to do that they won't see enough value in it. It'll be interesting to see which platform shakes out as "better" for the enthusiast to create their own game. But the fact that the Fast stuff can be used to mod existing games (assuming that really does happen) gives it a bit of a leg up...

--Donnie

#432 6 years ago

What we are doing is trying to encourage several tracks:

- Enhanced games running 6809 object code on your hardware (per Bug Fixes thread started months ago (ex: we have CC with enhancements (DMD frames, Code fixes, etc) that we will be testing and adding further things ... running on existing WPC hardware (not 2.0)

- WPC 2.0 Games which can be either 6809 Emulated Code -or- higher level language code which can use enhanced Audio, and DMD (color, etc), as well as playfield enhancements, etc.

The above variations 'can' run on MMR platform (it's running a beaglebone), or other platforms (like FAST, probably others, etc), but the result is updated games for existing games with existing hardware, as well as 2.0 games taking advantage of lots of new features and capabilities on more advanced hardware.

rick@planetarypinball.com

#433 6 years ago

rick... any updates on what extensions might be included in FH? also any decision on 2.0 for either TOTAN or CV ?
for what is worth, my vote is for TOTAN.

-2
#434 6 years ago

Hey guys, jump through these hoops we created just because we paid WMS some money for their "intellectual property" that is of legal drinking age.

And of course giving away or making available wms IP is just not going to fly now that we have opened up a door with wms to do it legitimately.

Well then maybe you shouldn't have done that.

#435 6 years ago
Quoted from djb_rh:

Why not see if there's a way to convince Eric to port CCC to the new hardware? As in "here's some free hardware to do the port, and if you do it then we'll forgive the current work that's out there and you can support both as a 'free' add-on to CCR." I mean Eric may not go for it, but maybe it's a start to making EVERYONE happy rather than this rift.

I have never met Eric before in person, but I did contact him to see if there was any interest in doing a port. At this point, I don't think he has any interest in doing so.

Quoted from djb_rh:

On the P-ROC topic...

It would have been cool if Fast's hardware was really just a beaglebone plugged into a P-ROC, but apparently they wanted to do their own hardware for one reason or another. Gerry's tweaked by that, and I can understand why. But at the end of the day, nobody is evil for doing that. They apparently have their reasons, and they had a right to do it that way if they wanted. Sure would be cool if the Fast software could run on a beaglebone plugged into a P-ROC, but I'm guessing architectural differences will make that hard enough to do that they won't see enough value in it. It'll be interesting to see which platform shakes out as "better" for the enthusiast to create their own game. But the fact that the Fast stuff can be used to mod existing games (assuming that really does happen) gives it a bit of a leg up...

We decided to create a platform to provide a solid foundation for integrating new features and technologies we thought would be fun to have in pinball. We also designed our platform from the beginning to be fun for making customs but solid enough to grow with the designer and sustain them through to a commercial release.

It has been very exciting to talk to many of you in greater detail as we continue working through our other hardware and software. Hearing about challenges using other hardware or in attempts to roll their own or limitations in a software only approach, we are stoked to get hardware into the hands of more people to see if we are doing something right! Personally, I have met some of the smartest people I know through this pinball adventure and I dont expect that to stop anytime soon!

We have been working hard to make sure that challenges that should be solved in hardware, are solved in hardware and those that should be solved in software, are solved in software. That may sound a bit "duh" but since we were starting from scratch we had the opportunity to make sure that this approach creates a solid flexible platform and not just, for example, get a game finished that we were working on.

Still plenty of work to do, but keep an eye on fastpinball.com as we will be adding more details in the coming days...

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Post edited by fastpinball: left out a word

#436 6 years ago

When do you expect to start selling your product?

#437 6 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

When do you expect to start selling your product?

Working out final details with parts vendors now in preparation for volume production. Our plan is to get all that lined and then offer a pre-order with a defined shipment window, to help gauge interest and guide the size of the initial run.

I will post an update here when we add the details to our site about availability of the FAST WPC/S Controller. Should have tidbits we can share soon about some of the hardware we are working on!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

3 weeks later
#438 6 years ago

be interesting to know what you guys solution to the BBB supply constraint is when you can only buy a handful at a time. 26 weeks supply constraint lead times on parts. 3000 a week production for the entire world supply. places like mouse had a 10k+ backorder at one point.

#439 6 years ago
Quoted from BloodyCactus:

be interesting to know what you guys solution to the BBB supply constraint is when you can only buy a handful at a time.

You know, maybe not the best time to use that acronym, I had to read that sentence a couple times.

#440 6 years ago

Newark claims to have 100 Beaglebone Blacks in stock (manufactured by them, but identical.) Other places have a handful in stock, but for bulk buys there are still 3500 backorders at Mouser and 0 stock plus unknown backorders at Digi-Key. Maybe since PPS is ordering 1000+ they can just have them built, or maybe they planned well ahead and stockpiled them.

#441 6 years ago
Quoted from ecurtz:

Newark claims to have 100 Beaglebone Blacks in stock (manufactured by them, but identical.) Other places have a handful in stock, but for bulk buys there are still 3500 backorders at Mouser and 0 stock plus unknown backorders at Digi-Key. Maybe since PPS is ordering 1000+ they can just have them built, or maybe they planned well ahead and stockpiled them.

Gotta be careful with those "identical" ones

#442 6 years ago

They seem to be kosher - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/beagleboard/cwRP7JC7lM0/g6ZRDYUL-bcJ but since Newark is only producing 500 a month it's probably moot.

#443 6 years ago

if they've got a constant supply, thats cool. I just know how constrained they have been. Texas Instruments been stating 26 weeks lead time on some of the compnents. production is at max and they are doing only like 3000 a week for the worldwide supply. its crazy. everyone wants a beagle bone black! hopefully they have a line on some.

#444 6 years ago

Why would they sell them with a beaglebone? I would have thought that finding a beaglebone was our problem, not theirs. Plus, I already have one, so I wouldn't want to be forced to buy more.

2 weeks later
#445 6 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Why would they sell them with a beaglebone? I would have thought that finding a beaglebone was our problem, not theirs. Plus, I already have one, so I wouldn't want to be forced to buy more.

The Beaglebone Black is not included by default. Including it as an option was just as a convenience for people. We can also pick them up in lots when we can to make finding one easier when we can.

#446 6 years ago

Hey everyone! We have been super busy but I wanted to add a quick post to let everyone know that we will be doing a talk tonight at the nwpinballshow.com at 5pm Friday (tonight) w/ Matt Christiano joining us. We also have a booth at the show and a couple games in the booth with hardware in it. Come check it out!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#447 6 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Hey everyone! We have been super busy but I wanted to add a quick post to let everyone know that we will be doing a talk tonight at the nwpinballshow.com at 5pm Friday (tonight) w/ Matt Christiano joining us. We also have a booth at the show and a couple games in the booth with hardware in it. Come check it out!
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Live stream link
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nwpinballarcadeshow

#448 6 years ago

Missed the talk at NWPAS. Did anyone make it and what were the highlights?

#449 6 years ago

There is a video from that talk you mention.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/48499143

#450 6 years ago
Quoted from horseypin:

There is a video from that talk you mention.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/48499143

Looking fwd to upgrading to FH 2.0

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