That is how I have been reading this announcement, enables a remake that will sell. Just glad it can have a positive effect on so many great games!

I'm on board for more things to do in MB Rick!!!

Any plans to do a TOTAN remake with the WPC 2.0 kit integrated straight from the factory?

Closed source is not the same as DRM "enabled". I couldn't care less if their emulator is closed source. However DRM says "our priorities are fundamentally different from those of hobbyists" to me. I'm sure there are other programmers who don't care at all.

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As in a licensed title (e.g. STTNG, IJ)?

I guess I'm the opposite, I'm excited of what this means for tourneys as it expands greatly the selection of "tourney-viable" games, code updates could do a lot to make games that were formerly kept out of PAPA and the like for various rule unbalances make a comeback.

Thanks for answering the questions. If I understand correctly, an extension, like TOTAN 2.0 would be okay, but a whole new game based on the IP, like "Revenge of the Genie - TOTAN 2" would have to be pursued separately and directly with the WMS folks…?

I'd love to see this as the current rules on TOTAN are the biggest thing keeping the game down. The layout/artwork is fantastic and with good rules it could be a top 5 game. I know CPR has the playfield artwork done and is close to running them but it would likely needed to be subcontracted to somebody (Mirco?) to produce enough games for a run. -I don't think CPR has the capacity to build 1000+ playfields?

Is Mirco doing the playfields for the MMR?

Doh, I was afraid you might say that Those could still be ported to WPC 2.0 right, just with no first party modifications? I assume if I wanted to modify anything, I'd have to basically start from scratch?

I get that...but at what point do you say it's gotten out of hand? When there's 4 different code revisions floating around, and all are considered "tourney viable"? I don't want to go to every different venue and the same game at every place has different rules. =|

I understand the objection to DRM in principle, but in this case what's the practical ramification? It's not like it's a transformative media like audio files or video or eBooks, where DRM could unfairly lock you into a platform (say Kindle etc). You're not going to take the software and run it on different hardware, this is a pretty closed system.

Again, just comparing it to TOTAN now, what is it that you can do with the existing game that you couldn't with this new system? If anything it sounds like there's actually a lot more flexibility than before. Just seems unfair to Rick and this project to say that DRM ruins it when that's the status quo that we've accepted for so long.

....some rule adders and a few of the features and art that never made the final TotaN cut would be nice! Actually all the games I was able to work on at WMS had a lot cut in the final months of costing....go Rick go! Jpop

Seems to me there wouldn't be 4, there would be 2, and one of them isn't tourney viable. Take TOTAN, no one is playing it in tournaments now, the rules aren't friendly for it. If it is in a tournament then it's only because it's using the known set of 2.0 rules that are.

I get your point about fracturing, but practically speaking it seems like it wouldn't be an issue, there would be just one tournament game set. MAYBE two if there was a "new TOTAN game" and a "old TOTAN game with new tournament adjustments", but if the new one had say, the new translite, it wouldn't be confusing.

I'm assuming at some point that someone will go to the trouble to code their own rules, not just run the official "2.0" PPS code....so maybe I'm playing a little devil's advocate here, but I still think it's a concern at some point if the tools to write new rules are modular and accessible enough for guys like me to write rules from scratch.

F--->Four--->Teen Baby!

THIS.

DRM makes things more expensive and less convenient for everyone (including the poor sap who has to implement it.) For what? To protect some 30 year old bitmaps and audio files that have been trivial to extract for at least the last decade? I guarantee that it won't work and will cost the end user time and money. I honestly appreciate what Rick is doing for the community with PPS but DRM does nothing but hurt your customers to fulfill some clause in a contract.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds with all this DRM nonsense. If you don't like it, it looks like there is an avenue to add your own rules from scratch with WPC 2.0 and there is always P-ROC. PPS is able to do some fantastically cool things having sealed this Williams deal and folks are looking at the worst of it. A kind of DRM was already on the original WPC platforms.

I don't like DRM either and I'm a huge open source advocate, but in this case, it sounds like PPS is already giving you an open avenue if you want to go do your own thing. Licensing sucks but it's not PPS's fault and I can't totally fault Williams for wanting to protect their IP.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. But PPS has done something amazing and I find it baffling folks are latching onto this DRM thing. Awesome updates done by PPS are better than absolutely zero updates, particularly on an aging platform with hard to replace components. I don't really see what the problem is.

I concur. It is not likely that someone would go to the trouble of building a pinball machine based on new hardware, say "Fables of the Arabian Knights"and want to shoehorn the code from TOTAN into it. If you expand the TOTAN code, you will likely need a TOTAN to run it on.

It would be unrealistic to expect a free for all with the existing libraries. The CCC project is just flat out awesome, in my opinion. I have no doubt that it and the BOP 2.0 project played a major role in getting this idea off the ground and I hope CCC is allowed to move forward just as BOP has. However, there are some things in the CCC code that could be a real issue for Williams (I am talking about the the tributes here) if they do not have some controls built in to protect themselves. No surprise that Rick has suggested that licensed games will need additional approval from the copyright holders.

I believe Rick deserves a lot of kudos for making this happen. It is great news for the pinball community.

I do get your viewpoint, I think there's probably a clause in my Ars Technica contract that says I have to hate DRM, because you're right, it ultimately burdens the end user and rarely proves all that effective. I'm just struggling to see see the practical downsides in this particular case.

Now all that said, to argue your side, isn't Capcom's DRM part of the reason the whole "build more BBB and Kingpins" was such a difficult endeavor?

I agree. TOTANs are hard to come by. Especially nice ones. There really weren't that many made and I'm sure many have fallen into ruin over the years. At the right price I'd be very interested in a TOTAN remake with WPC 2.0.

I'm sympathetic to your point of view (hell I spent the 2000s writing punk songs about IP law) but that ship has sailed. nobody's sadder than me to say the war is over and the good guys lost. the opportunity was there in the late 90s/early 2000s, as most content distribution went digital and its cost shrank to near-zero, to implement a new way of thinking about things like IP, copyright, distribution, ownership, etc, but that's not what happened. I don't even like the term "theft" as applied to copying something where the original is still there (like copying a file), but that's another battle lost. I get that the idea of intellectual property is far, far older than the internet, but the opportunity its emergence provided was probably the last great flashpoint for reforming how we thought of IP.

anyway, the modern marketplace from the top down is designed to function with the assumption that companies are leveraging protected intellectual property, and that they must protect it or risk losing it. I don't like it, but companies have to play by the rules as they're currently written. can't hold that against PPS.

TotaN remake...hmm.....Jpop

So my MMR will ship with one of these new boards and 2.0 code, right?

Sorry, I think I'm the only one complaining about the DRM and I'll leave it be after this. I personally do already have a P-ROC and that's a great community for anyone doing their own machines. It's the community that spawned BOP 2.0 and CCC, two amazing projects that asked for forgiveness rather than permission when it came to building something on top of old IP. JPop can tell us what's missing from TOTAN, but he can't add it because he doesn't code. If WPC2.0 is locked up too tight we'll soon be seeing "where's the TOTAN2.0 update?" threads to go with along with all the Sterns.

We can blame none other than the Walt Disney company for the concept of IP. Originally in the USA copyright law was intended to perform like patent law; new works were supposed to be protected for a much shorter time so that we could enjoy a rich public domain. Now, the "public domain" (movies, books, etc) essentially consists of only properties created before the 1940's.

I don't have a problem with the DRM in this case; Rick is under no obligation to gain the admiration of the open source and hacker world.

Two days ago during Pinburgh A division finals, players & commentators spotted old code on Star Trek pro. Keith Johnson tried to stack super modes and only got one. They updated the code between rounds.

Tastes good doesn't it?

I agree. A big part about producing the "2.0" games is to do the best we can to truly enhance the experience and not just shuffle it all around and tack on additional modes, etc. just to sell stuff. Anyone interested in participating can PM me in the meantime while we get our site wrapped up.

Aaron

I never thought I would say this, but if they released a Totan remake with updated code to make it a deeper game, I would have to sell off some other pins to get it. The code is the main reason I have never had any intentions of pursuing one.

We had a blast talking to people at the booth. My voice is still pretty gone! The portable pin was such a fun project. When the hardware gets so simple, you can focus on doing new things in games. My mistake was thinking I would have the time to get it all wired back up during the downtime at the booth. I was adding all the RGB LEDs and cleaning up wiring so not enough people got to see it running. But it spent most of its time flipped over anyway to show how easy it is to wire up.

Here are a handful of pics from chicago (where we first showed it) and one of Dave showing in our booth in Texas.

Aaron

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Whatever leaves our hardware is received by the native hardware in the exact same manner it would have received it before. We support all display types out of the box. Segment, DMD, LCD (we even had visitors at the both describing how they would be able to use our driver board to add EM style scoring to their more modern custom game. love that!) So Color DMD would work just the same. I think there is an opportunity for tighter integration in the 2.0 stuff. Anyone with Color DMD can PM directly as well.

Aaron

It was greatly overshadowed by the MMR updates. As we were packing up to leave the show, word had got around the show and people were coming by to learn more.

Aaron

Is that Ben giving you the thumbs up?

Will be interested to see what you guys do with this.

The BBB is optional. It was the design choice because it provided plenty of connections and was well suited as a mounted micro pc. The usb connection enables any computer to interface with the board, using any language they choose.

To note as well, the hardware can be programmed and then have the PC removed. Obviously the game software would be absent, but you have what I call "physical prototype mode" basically it playing like an EM. I love this because it means I can wire up some flippers in minutes. I then have my lower playfield running and my whitewood custom playfield blank up top and now i can get working on my shot lines. Use cardboard, foam, plastic etc. All of this with a line of "game code" which I like because I tend to be more of a physical prototyper. (is that a word?)

Aaron

Okay, but point is, it was immediately corrected. They didn't MEAN to have it on old code. People are human, last I checked SETI hasn't found anything and the robot apocalypse hasn't happened yet...that's not what I was talking about...clearly. They have how many games in there? =|

Sorta like a SDK?

That's awesome, to be able to get a flipping proto up and running.

This is all so overwhelming, but in a good way.

1000s of guests and only one short video of Predator, too.

Those Texans don't share nothin'.

Call it my nerdy starstruck moment! I am been a huge of Ben's, so getting the thumbs up on the portable pin that nobody thought I could pull off in 2 weeks time was awesome!

Quote from Kevin @ Skit-B when I told him what I was trying to do, "um, yeah you do that. if you get it to the show I'll buy you a beer."

Now thats a challenge!

Aaron

Nice. This is the attitude we need a lot more of in the community. People that want to get things done not just go with the status quo and say OMG YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE OF "WHATEVER"!

Thumbs up.

T2 please.

If PPS or FAST wants to donate a controller setup to Spaceballs, I'd return the favor by contributing to the API/SDK.