I understand what you are saying. I cant see what about WOZ would scare techs away. Again nothing against you, you are one of the coolest cats on here.

I can understand people not understanding the architecture of the light boards yet, though I'm sure there are people here than can/do understand it once they see it.

From my experience, techs on location are parts changers, so I don't see anything different here...

Vid has been most helpful in helping me fix problems that made no sense. I've got to give credit to that guy. He is the best! He shares his knowledge selflessly in an effort to save people time and effort, but most importantly to save these machines from getting screwed up even more than they already are.

I appreciate that! I know all new pinball machines need a certain amount of tweaking to get them right, but to fix a problem and have it return the next day is what is probably frustrating pinball techs. I hate comebacks!

Yet????

It's been over a year.

JJP needs to issue a service bulletin and get the techs educated.

If they still want to mail out new boards, that's great; but 10 days down is BS.

Word.

I need somebody to polish my balls while I'm gone........

You're gonna have to make an appointment.

http://www.yamahat135.com/threads/anyone-who-is-using-9power.15660/page-2

The light boards are just about all surface mount. Is JJP going to issue a service bulletin teaching ops how to do surface mount soldering too? You're either forgetting that the boards are mostly surface mount or you're greatly overestimating the number of ops out there that know how to do surface mount soldering.

When Stern has trouble with surface mount boards, like the bell opto boards on AC/DC, they just replace the boards. Don't recall ever seeing a Stern service bulletin telling ops to replace a bad surface mount component on a board.

It's 2014.

No better time than the present to start

Replacing surface mounts is NOT a field repair. Asking the average op to do that is the same as asking him to never buy another game from you.

Back in the day when you took the Bally service class, they did not teach you to solder, they just taught you how to efficiently diagnose and repair Bally games.

Except pinball, just about all the board work done nowadays is surface mount.

Everybody from the the guy at the party store who fixes your Iphone, to the TV repair gents, they all repair surface mount all the time.

Jack is WAY underestimating most professional techs if he thinks they can't do surface board work.

Yep. I'm not questioning Vids level of service, your a good man Vid. Though in 1988 when the tech came to my house to fix Sinbad the family pin, had it had light boards at the time, through hole or surface mount on those light boards, as a field repair the tech would have swapped out the board and said, "your all done sir, that will be $180." To my knowledge, repairing a board regardless of what it's function is, is not done in the field. Easier to swap out and bring it back to the shop to repair it.

I'm pretty confident people will learn how to repair the light boards eventually.

Where you going to play it? The Dells?

Pinball board work is done in the field all the time.

Shorted coil driver transistors for instance. What tech has not replaced 100s of them in the field?

I don't think the issue with the WoZ LED boards is something that is repairable. I think the design is flawed and it requires extra components (a daughterboard) to fix, based on the other posts I've seen about it.

Could JJP just make the daughterboards available? Probably. Will they? Doubt it.

LED problem is fixed. I had a total overhaul in January and only froze once since. They sent me one redesigned board and I've been fine for months now. It was bad design that was rectified by the new EE Eric.

That's great to hear. The LED board issue sucks with some of the earlier games but its good to know JJP corrected it.

Eric is an AMAZING EE and his work quickly rectifying the few electrical related issues in woz shows that. Eliminating the resets and the light lockups & blow outs. He's a star.

That's awesome to hear. I remember reading about the issue on the JJP Google Group a while back and it was interesting reading Eric's comments about it.

Ive been to Modern a lot. WOZ has been down once I think. Therefore up around 90 % of the time. That said, must be some lighting issues with that particular game, as my friend's freshly unboxed WOZ looks like a freaking electric rainbow compared to the one at Modern. Modern's is definitely missing out on some lights and lacks some cool flasher effects that my buddy's has.

Re: robust. It's still a piece of machinery. Things are going to wear and break. WOZ feels more solid than any Stern I own or have played. I personally don't like Sterns rinky dinky pop bumpers for example. And Sterns shooter lane wood/clear and mechs really suck bad.

= early game + Tim. If it requires special effort, is he going to do it?

WOZ is a new architecture. Under duress at every turn by design. The kinks will get worked out, and then this new architecture will be as bullet proof (ha ha) as new Sterns. Stern's are based on fairly ancient tech platforms right? I'd hope they're more reliable than a 3 year old company using proprietary, next gen tech.

Why do you think its taking Stern so long to release their new platform? Maybe it's because they don't want to be eviscerated in print daily for how much it sucks. And they provably realize that it's going to take alot of attention away from new game/code development to have to fix and troubleshoot all the problems that they expect to have with their next gen platform.

You and Tim are probably like two peas in a pod! When you two get together do you see who can make the most crumudgeonly faces and come up with the best put down for any pinpunks that come in the door?

Probably another very early WOZ that never got the right fix.

Feeling solid and reliability unfortunately have little to do with each other. I owned a BMW M5 that had a rock solid feel but had more bugs than all my other cars combined. I understand Stern machines have issues as well. I stand by my previous comment...

I’m the owner of the WOZ in question. First off, I’d like to apologize that the machine has been down on any occasion that you have visited. Trust me, it’s as big of a disappointment for us as it is for you. Anyone who plays the pins here knows that we strive to keep all of the games in excellent condition. In fact, our goal is to have each game at 100%. At the moment the WOZ playfield is a little dark, as we have several light boards on order, but we are trying to keep up with them to the best of our ability while also servicing the rest of the arcade. Some may say that having it turned on is all that matters, but our standards are higher than that, so in our eyes it’s unsatisfactory.

I am happy to say that both Lloyd and Sal from JJP have been fantastic. They’ve sent every light board that needed to be replaced thus far, and I can’t thank them enough for all of their help. Perhaps getting a full set of boards would help eliminate future issues, and it’s something that we are going to try to work with JJP on in the near future. I think everyone wants to see this game do well, as a new manufacturer to the pinball market should be welcomed whole heartedly by the pinball community. Thanks to all those who support the location, and with any luck WOZ will eventually be at 100%. In the mean time there are five other pins that are working great and are just waiting to be played!

Jon

Good to hear the update and that they are working with you!

More bugs than all other cars combined.

E60 m5 was a buggy car. F10 m5 is a dream.

It's a dream for the service center.

This should be top priority. Seems as if when they go they cannot be repaired. Maybe because it's a poor design and surface mounts are hell to change.

Haven't seen anyone discussing massive issues with the f10/f10 m5. The e60 on the other hand asside from being hideous it was a bane to keep running.

Car's I've owned...obviously.

That would be one of those cars that I refused to work on because it was more trouble than it was worth. Not that it couldn't be fixed, but because they don't want to pay you for your time.

You guys need to define what you're arguing about. Board work as in transistor or a cap? Sure, not a big deal But a surface mount chip or something like that? Not likely that's being replaced at a bar.

WOZ is a completely new and innovative system, so of course there're going to be some hiccups. The few times I've encountered WOZ's on location, they've been working fine. Mine has worked without a hitch since I set it up, though I can't say the same for my MET LE magnet boards, or my XM LE aux boards (yep, plural on both) or... (do I need to continue?).

I think we can see from who started this thread, his relation to Stern, and who's stirring the pot in the thread (usual WOZ haters), as to what the true agenda is.

Pinball machines need service. Always have, always will. Lloyd is always available for support, and as far as I've heard JJP has worked with every failure under warranty. Not sure we needed all this...

A million connection BGA is not going to be done in a bar, but a regular surface mount SOIC is doable with a little hot air rework station (and yes, I know some guys do it with a pencil, lol).

But all this is besides the point.

Has ANYONE, even at a well lit workbench, with a Metcal hot air rework station, fixed a broken WOZ light board?

Or is it always 10 days of downtime to receive replacement boards?

Easily Metallica. Nothing else has really been close lately.

From Mechslave on what's your favorite game at the moment thread.

So Jon, what did Derek mean when he said he got that for you?

I mean it sounds like he is saying he is your dealer, but its a bit unclear.

Fact: He can speak for himself. Someone that sells a NIB may not be a dealer. Occasionally selling 2 or 3 over time can still fit the description of collector. After all, some people buy them as trade bait for older grail games. But hauling 5 to a show? All the NIB FS posts he makes?

And seriously, there is nothing wrong with someone selling a lot of NIB games. But that still sounds like he is a Stern dealer, and a Stern dealer starting this thread is weak. And even weaker if he sold them the game he question.

In all honesty, this is pointless to even discuss since the pins around me on route are neither repaired in the field or in the shop lol

Haha. Good ol pinside detective work.

I had an Avengers LE which was originally intended to be put at the park. After a lot of problems with Avengers I decided it may not be the best game for the location, and since I had a little extra cash I really wanted to try and trade it for WOZ as I knew everyone would be happy to see it on location. I ended up doing a 3 way trade which included Derek and another party. So no, he's not my distributor or dealer. He is just another Pinsider who I worked out a trade with. In my opinion, Derek is a guy that is very passionate about the hobby and wanted to help out a fellow pinhead with a trade. He wanted Avengers, I wanted WOZ, and we worked out a trade that benefited all three parties.

I can honestly say that if it weren't for Derek, WOZ would not be at the park right now. So, he may sell a lot of Sterns, but he also helped get a WOZ into the wild for others to be able to play. I'm just disappointed to find out that he came over to support it and it wasn't working. Anyone who comes to play pinball deserves to be able to play pinball! I'm working on it tho...I'm hoping to reach out to Lloyd and Sal early in the week to try and get a whole set of boards for it. Then it should (hopefully) be smooth sailing from there!

Hopefully that answered your question
Jon

I would like to say though that Knobles is the only place near me that has working pins, it was nice for a change. I got to play WOZ before I got mine so that was cool and Star Trek was pretty cool to play also. Nice work guys I appreciate it. I wish I could have spent more time there but we were on the kids schedule.

Are you dense? He's not a stern dealer I told you that. He's not a dealer of pins in any capacity. He is a collector. I love how the JJP guys come on here and just make up nonsense that can be proven wrong easily. Stop trying to take attention away from the fact that your light boards are garbage and do something to fix it rather than sit here crying on a forum.

14396083407_69c855af24_k.jpgWent to Flipper McGill's today in Idaho Springs, Co. Found this when I walked in. Bummer.

Oh well theres a pretty nice 24 year old game next to it running like a champ! Rudy was pretty innovative for it's time, since innovation apparently is an excuse for constant breakdowns let me ask you, was Rudy working? He may have been missing entirely but just curious!

Painful ! Hopefully Jacks guys can get this worked out .

Dark machines, no good. Get them fixed!

So Derek is or is not a Stern dealer?

I did a little more digging and some of the guys at Stern know Derek. I also talked to JJP and he and he knew Derek. I'm very confused that Derek got WOZ to Jon and then sold some NIB Stern games and he's not a Stern dealer. Seems strange to me.

So I got to the bottom of this. I talked to Derek and we arranged a tentative future trade for AMH. Damn now this guy is dealing Spooky games as well. Oh and he was trying to sell that Rush machine and some Bally and Capcom games.

So I think Derek is ?

A) A pinhead
B) A Broski
C) A nice guy
D) A hobbyist that helps people out
E) Crazy Pinball Nut
F) Supreme Brosiah

There is one where my son works and it is always working. I play the game all the time and love it.

Yes Josh, I am dense. And this topic strayed quite far without me pushing it. I hate making posts like this one. Responding to someone who calls me dense. My gut reaction is to call up Derek's topic history and post links to all the NIB Stern games he has been selling. How can I not call him a dealer at that level? Disprove it all you want. But if it walks like a duck... And so because of that I thought the topic was unfair. How many pictures of broken Stern games on location should I post as a JJP supporter? And how would those ones be treated? I think we all as a group could easily fill the first 3 pages of Pinside with "dead machines on location" reports, but that might get a bit boring. If someone not selling NIB Stern games had posted it, I'm not sure there would have been any hubbub. I would have read it (it mentions WOZ) and said to myself "Game on location has issues, shocker" and moved along.