people weren't paying $9,000 for NIB pins prior to the last downturn.

Pinball was in a different place then.

A whole lot of air in the balloon now

A lot of chicken on the bone

Hey, Shlockdoc...here's the equation for you as I see it:

You're loaded+You live in Jersey=Drive down to Lakewood and pick up a WOZ. It's an incredible machine and worth the money. I wouldn't sell my ECLE for less than 8 or 8.5k, and a lot of people feel the same way.

Go pick up Yzfguy and come over to my house for some beers and WOZ. You're always welcome at my place, as I think you know.

Now go ahead and down vote me. I'm almost disappointed when it doesn't happen at this point. (You and Rarehero are responsible for 95% of my downvotes. It's cute, all the attention I get! )

Ok so I don't expect WOZ going down that much but why has JJP raised the price of WOZ after selling so many WOZ's? Their R&D is already paid for, design, coding etc so why raise the price? Theoretically the cost should be lower.

I don't know whether to upvote you or downvote you. I hate when that happens.

YOU DOWNVOTED ME AGAIN!!!

F**********************************************ck!!!

(I'm about to take this to the basement...)

It seems VERY few are selling. JJP has been directly reaching out to some of my locations and soliciting them to buy WoZ. keep in mind as an operator this pissed me off to the point that I will NEVER buy one. Doubly pissed me off since I am friends with the local JJP distributor and they are reaching out while trying to cut him completely from a local sale.

Gotta love these asshats trying to cut both their own distributors and operators out of the equation in a single move.

On topic, used Woz are already selling on the down turn and I have had 2 in good condition offered to me for 7 k in the past 3 months.

They bought 2 $4500 pins. Same dif. Pin peeps have fun money.

I think once Hobbit is out WOZ will prices will drop fast.

I could have bought a beautiful LE for $7000, but I turned it down. Not because of the price, but because of the title. WOZ may drop in price, but I don't see it dropping below $6500. If you are ok with the title, the game has too much to offer vs. other games.......not too mention what it costs to buy it new.

I am a buyer at $5500

But they made A LOT of them. Right now it's the only JJJP game so people are holding on. Just looking at the titles coming out in 2016 and it's hard not to see WOZ dropping fairly hard. It's a theme that just can't compete with what's coming. People are gonna have to free up capital with almost 10 games coming in 2016.

I really don't think it will 'drop fast'. Sure it may go down over time, but I wouldn't hold my breath for a 6K machine anytime soon.

I think WOZ's will all be selling for 6K by the end of 2016. People we have 10 new titles coming out this year all with themes far more appealing than WOZ. It's gonna drop.

There's not many Nib woz's left, so it's supply and demand. The remaining that are available get A JJP factory warranty, and I guess JJP feels they are worth more than any other new pin on the market, which I agree with.

I turned down 3 offers from $6500-$7200 for a Standard I have over the Holidays.

Sure, a random game will enter the market over time for lower...but a consistent
supply near all buyers...I just dont think so.
Why sell this masterpiece for a Spiderman VE?...

Everything is increasing in costs this year...mail, interest rates, etc....

Sure, we all want a bargain, but at some point if you want one, why make yourself crazy?
Grab a good one at a Fair price, play the hell out of it, and if your good, youll get
your money back, or close.

Or grab any of the CC giving $500 or more back for 5K in purchases, and you are safe all around
to enjoy, and pay it forward....catch and release....

Why? A single game has never caused a value drop another. A game makes its own reputation and then its value is based on that specific title's supply and demand. Did any of Stern's post LOTR all-star titles like Tron or ACDC cause LOTR to drop? Nope.

You have a very closed minded view of the pinball market. WOZ may not be an appealing theme to some - but clearly it was to others, as they sold plenty. Some owners bought that one game for their family and in their house it shall stay. Most pinball buyers aren't hardcore hobbyists who buy every game and constantly need to sell to make space for another.

MMR killed MM! There are like 11 WOZ versions, surely the eventual rerun will kill it in 15 years.

Lol I knew someone would bring that up. Same game doesn't count lol

I think the potential place that Hobbit could cause the price to fall on WOZ is that it will make it so WOZ is no longer unique with the huge LCD screen and such. Kind of the same phenomenon seen with location play where a game's earnings surge when it has some new technology (ex. when solid state games first released, or when DMDs first released), and eventually slowing back down when that technology becomes the standard.

Now, how that philosophy shifts from location play over to game ownership, we shall see. I also agree with you that many people own WOZ not because the gimmick, but because it's a great game, and I'm sure a good chunk of those people actually do like the theme and family friendly nature of the game, so taking that into account, I don't really expect the game to take a very big hit in price once the Hobbit releases.

Personally I'll be just as interested in WOZ no matter what happens with Hobbit. Like you pointed out with your examples of Stern's big hits, just because another hit comes out doesn't stop the past one from being good.

The game didn't really "cost" those pre-orderers $6500.

With their money tied up for 3 years, in some cases it could have "cost" them MORE than what they go for now....

Regardless, thats a false starting number to base your math on.

btw- plenty doomsayers predicted WoZ would drop like a rock once the early adopters got bored of it and its slow game play and the torturous music started to outweigh the novelty of the LCD.... That still hasn't happened. Seems like a keeper for those that have them.

i *DO* think that a good number of Woz owners will swap out for TH (if it proves to be a winner), but not to the level to drive prices anywhere NEAR what you're suggesting.

The one exception could be if the economy mets down, but then ALL pinball machines will drop in value- not just WoZ.

I think allot of WOZ owners can't wait to have the Hobbit sitting right next to their WOZ.... And better yet Pats game on the other side!

I'm getting both. WOZ is pretty good but a "WOZ" with pop up trolls...I just couldn't resist.

Key word: was

Go try and buy a NIB standard for less than $8K. I doubt you can do it...

We bought WOZ partly because of the theme. Sure, it's not a theme everyone loves but the Wizard of Oz is something I have fond memories of watching as a kid, my wife as well. Reading some of the theme-hate comments (for lack of a better description), it seems that some people just want so-called 'manly' themes. To each their own. I'm less interested in the Hobbit theme despite also appreciating it. I actually love the LOTR theme but theme game becomes a grind, to me. I'm excited to play TH, and it might even make me want one, but assuming its release will suddenly tank the value of WOZ just doesn't follow. WOZ has a lot to offer anyone, toys, gameplay, looks. DOn't see that changing because other games come out. Then again, I'm a fan of games from every era and still find some EMs I favor over many DMD games.

Rare I have to teach you how to discuss with people without personally insulting them with your lead in. Let me ask you a question. Real simple question. When in the past 15 years of pinball buying / collecting have 10 titles shipped in one year?

Follow up question: Name me another LE that had 1,000 units made and then another 1,500 made that held it's value.

Also, this is all SPECULATION my friend. You can't say I'm wrong, you're right. By the end of 2016, we shall see what WOZ's are going for. I say closer to 6K. You say no. That's cool. But no need to say my mind is closed and yours is open.

We are going into uncharted territory in 2016 and it's going to shake this market up like never before. Nobody really knows what's going to happen.

Years from now when there are several games with a lcd screen. Right now it's in its own category. If there are several lcd games and they're all better play, cost the same and have a better theme, nobody will care about oz anymore.

You would be a fool to buy a NIB WoZ today at NIB prices. Hell, I think you would be a fool to buy a WoZ today at all... have you played it?

HUO ones go for upper 6's and Standards even less. Closeout soon...

Come on Kaneda. Rarehero wasn't insulting you by saying you were close-minded. If you think WOZ has an unappealing theme, you are close-minded. Just watch the Youtube video of that guy getting a WOZ for Christmas for his family. Many people still think WOZ is a great theme especially for a family that doesn't want Alien or RZ around the little children. I'm single and in my 30s and I think it's a great theme.

I don't know. I picked up a RR not too long ago and the family loves it. For the first time I was able to stack a crystal ball mode, castle multiball and a munchkin mode. It was VERY intense and exciting. I think when you get the game rocking and stacking stuff it is ridiculously fun. Trying to manage a multiball with 2 upper playfields AND keep it going whilst you have a 2x scoring (it was lights-on mode so it was visual overload) was very difficult and fun. As far as price....I have no idea but I'd doubt we see a RR much less than $7k for a nice HUO version. There is just too much going on in comparison to other pins all the while pinflation continues.

Time will tell and it doesn't really effect my personal situation either way.

I agree, it's the only game JJP has released in 5 years and i'm guessing that there would be less topics on pinside about woz this past few years if Hobbit and the Lawlor game were being played in gamerooms. I don't know about price drops, but there would be a lot less discussions about it.

WOZ is awesome. Best game I've ever owned...probably my favorite pin of all time.

I can't help it that you've only ever owned WoZ and Shaq Attack...

Kaneda if I wanted to insult you I'd call you a fartybutt. I made a statement and backed it up. In your usual narcissistic fashion, you made it about you.

Let me try again. You have a "sheltered view" of pinball - you think the entirety of pinball buyers is represented by the hardcore hobbyist types you see on Pinside or at shows. Your conclusion is that we're all ADD fickle types who want every new game and have to constantly sell the old ones. Sure some people are like that - but there are so many different types of buyers for these machines....10 new games coming out this year is meaningless. Not everyone wants all 10 games. Maybe some do and can afford it and have space. Lots of different people and financial/space situations.

Why is your theory specifically about WOZ? Why does WOZ lose value due to the new games coming out? Why not TWD or GOT or ACDC, etc? While
It might turn out to be true that SOME people will sell games to fund new games - there are thousands of titles that may be sold, not just one. The only way prices drop drastically is if tons of one title is up for sale and no one wants it ....see Avengers and TF. Those games didn't drop because of impending new games - they dropped cuz they had a bad rep, lots were for sale, and few wanted. Games make their own reputation. WOZ will drop if more people want out than in, end of story.

Think trade both people can walk away thinking they got the best deal

That is true. I almost traded an old game + cash for a WOZ which essentially would have made it a $4500 WOZ for me....but I couldn't bring myself to lose my old game lol

You've been spending WAY too much time at work.

@VolunteerPin,

Yes! Getting stacked MBs with balls on the upper playfield takes skill and control to new levels not available in any other game I can think of. You can literally have three or more balls to control with three flippers on three different playfields, all at the same time. It is a challenge and a blast of one I tried to wrangle last night during a CB/EC MB stack with Twister going.

You've been saying that same BS since it was released. You were WRONG. Admit it and walk away like a man. At this point the only time you should be opening your mouth on the topic is to switch feet.

Since its release? Hell I was telling everyone years before the release to keep their money and wait for it to become available before buying it but so many thought it would be rare and hitting 10k... no 12k per what Jack told everyone. Now they can be had for about what they were preordered for just like I said... and dropping.

You're finding ECLE's for 6500 HUO? Doesn't seem like it. There aren't many/any for sale. So again, just to switch feet.

I guess your business of flipping pins and taking advantage of the unknowing has taken a downturn. Sorry about that.

You talking to me or JJP???

I actually don't think WoZ is going to drop in price.

(I don't care if it does, Pins aren't investments for me, they are toys and I like my toys.)

Some people, I think, think that the moment Stern slaps an LCD on a pin (even a good one with an awesome theme) - it will shatter the WoZ bubble. I don't think there is a WoZ Bubble. I know some people hate the theme but you know what - some people love the theme and not all of them have bought, yet and many-many people haven't even seen the pin in person or know it exists at all.

Scarcity will drive the price up. Specifically, I think RR's will stay the same or increase a little but I think the ECLE's will see the real increase over time - going for about the same as the RR. As production switches to Hobbit at the factory, the supply of WoZ's will dry up.

I *think* JJP's production facility is agile enough to retool quickly between games but I don't know that the supply chain is going to support that agility by the time Hobbit's are rolling to the boxing line and Pat's game starts up later. I don't know when 'later' is but I see them having their hands full producing Hobbits and Pat's game for the near future, which will dry up the WoZ supply.

Then there's the stern-effect. As those prices rise, so will the rest.

Does anyone know how many WOZ's have been built Total, or each variety?

My Revenge from Mars has fucking holograms dancing around the playfield!!! Remember when every game that came out before that dropped to $100?