I was convinced theme didn't matter to me, so I bought a woz. 8 months later I got rid of it. The game was ok overall, but the theme and code did nothing for me. Everyone is different. I'd buy an huo, you'll save money and not lose much (if any) if you sell.

Theme I'd rather have hobbit. Game play woz.

At this point in time, WOZ...and it isn't close to be honest. The Hobbit is great, but it's no WOZ. It needs some finishing touches to pull it together.

WOZ has better rules, code, and gameplay. But its theme and call outs get old after a few months in a HUO environment. I'd go Hobbit if I ever had to do it again.

Wizard of Oz by a HUGE margin. From code to layout, it's just a superior experience.

I just spent a weekend at a pin convention and put a lot of time on both. Both are great, but WoZ turned out to be my strong preference. Excellent layout, rules, lights, and gameplay. I like the theme of hobbit a lot more, but found the gameplay and playfield to be less interesting. Ended up getting a chance to buy a WoZ after the show and did so without hesitation.

I have both and would suggest WOZ, as others have said code and game play are better at the moment.

Have a good amount of experience with both....

Theme - TH without a doubt. Personally can't stand WOZ from a theme perspective and that kept me from getting one. My neighbor had one for a year and I put a lot of time on it. Just sold it recently because he and his family just didn't like it.

Play/Code - WOZ. WOZ has received incredible code support. As others have said, code is better, overall, on WOZ. TH has massive potential, but the support so far has not reached WOZ levels and that's being kind. If you are looking for a game that has easy and hard objectives, something for everyone (except perhaps theme!), deep code, great light show, etc. - then right now that's WOZ. If it's going to be your only pin, I would agree that the call outs and video clips will get old quickly. Especially if you're not a fan of the theme.

TH has a great light show, great sound, great video implementation, and the basis for what could eventually be great code. It is not there yet.

Neither machine would be considered a fast, flowy type of machine, like IM or similar. WOZ has "more" to shoot at, but TH is packed with shots, many of which are the individual drop targets.

Both machines, HUO, can be had now in the $7K - $7.5K range. Both weigh a freakin' ton so be prepared have help moving them!

I currently have TH and am hoping JJP ramps up code support for it. It is a beautiful machine and I really would prefer not to sell it.

Same here, I was excited when I got it last summer to see the clip of the updates and all that Keith was adding to the game - it was looking very promising. I was thinking at this rate JJP will have TH on par with WOZ no time.

And...then the code updates just stopped. And now I am concerned a bit. However, what I really think is that the next release will be massive and a 'game changer' - so I am waiting for that

Finished code > unfinished code
Woz>TH

TH has huge potential, but it's just not being exploited...yet. get a woz now and a hobbit later.

where are you located? find a distributor and play both for a bit. All (authorized) distributors are supposed to have each machine in production available for play.

if you are in the wisconsin area let me know when you would like to come by and check them out.

Hobbit all day long.

I can't decide, it's like choosing between if I like Ghostbusters or Back to the Future more! Can't compute....lol.

I really can't decide. I would say both are 2 of the most impressive pins I've ever played. Also more is still to come for Hobbit code.

Exactly what I was going to post. WOZ is also further along in the code process

Hang around for a bit; it'll get frosty in no time.

Freakin' noobs, man!

There is a map on this forum and pinballmap.com

https://pinballmap.com/cleveland

Level Two Games
(Game Room)
37319 Detroit Road | Avon
Bram Stoker's Dracula (Williams, 1993)
Doctor Who (Bally, 1992)
Last Action Hero (Data East, 1993)
NBA Fastbreak (Bally, 1997)
The Shadow (Bally, 1994)
Stars (Stern, 1978)
The Wizard of Oz (Jersey Jack, 2013)

Didn't see any Hobbits in the list.

WoZ unless you are a huge Tolkien fan. Hobbit is a great game but needs more code to feel as complete as WOZ.

Hobbit has so many modes, so much music, so many video sequences....I don't feel like it falls into the usual "code issues" pile of games. Yes, 5 Armies needs animation on the book and I think there should be some kind of reward or indication that you've completed an Arkenstone mode ....but aside from a few minor things, this game is brimming with deep & cohesive gameplay.

This is very true

personally, id' say neither. I don't like either one of them. If it's your first machine, you might not want something so complex anyway. Start off with a system 11 or something.

The short chart on The Hobbit is very pedestrian, however. Less variety than Wizard of Oz, by far.

Douche comments are inevitable.

it's not douche at all. if it's your first machine. You don't go and buy a game like LOTR,WOZ , TSPP or Hobbit. Way to much involvement. better off starting off with a gateway game that still has a lot to offer, like addams family or something similar. Something to get you used to modes and structure on how most games play. It was logical reasoning.

I love and play my TH regularly, its fascinating and amazing.

My WOZ however gets way more play. People like it and what it has to offer is more apparent visually.

The TH has deep modes and is a shooters game, its not as easy to see what its about from the surface, you have to really play it to understand and appreciate it.

Both are excellent choices but for novice or beginner players the WOZ is exceptional.

My wife plays the WOZ every day and feels like she is mastering it. Prior to getting my WOZ she never played pinball or only showed a casual interest and I have several of the top titled games and am in on the AFMr.

She also likes the IJ and my Farfalla.

WOZ is much, MUCH more difficult than The Hobbit.

I have both and they are my best games. I owned woz over 2 years TH only 6 months.
I play TH more. Guests go play woz first a few games then camp out on TH.

I don't have the theme hang ups other's do on this forum. I would be hard pressed to choose one over another. Great previous comments on both sides.
Good luck .

You're misreading your audience. First time buyer clearly wants to buy a brand new JJP machine. His two choices are WOZ and Hobbit. If he was interested in an old game, he'd ask about old games. This is a new collector...and new collectors in 2017 buy NIB games...they're not picking up projects and old games off Craigslist like we used to. Things are different now.

WOZ is definitely a drain monster! I closed the outlanes to the easiest setting and that has mostly tamed it as well as added a few seconds to the ball saver. So I agree that it can be really tough.

TH, I just pretty much left it factory and I think its less of a drain monster by comparison. People love the easy, early beast multiball. Its setup really nice code wise.

Still however people are drawn in to the vibrant colors and dual upper playfields of the WOZ to the extent that they want to give it a try in spite of their beginner skill levels.

The other pins in my small collection that get a lot of play are MM and ToM.

That being said Im all in on the AFMr and I think the standard playfield width and vibrant colors and Martians will also be a hit in my home.

Plus I have wanted one for a long time

This has been my experience with the small group that might play my games.

another option (if you have the time) would be to go to the Allentown show this weekend. looks like it is a 6.25 hour ride each way, but there will be a couple of each machine there as Joe from PinballStar has an amazing booth.

http://www.pinfestival.com/

that's the whole thing. new people come in and think they have to buy NIB JJP or stern. You get more fun out of something older than most of this NIB crap. They need to have more of an open mindset, instead of thinking NIB is the only way to go.

I have an huo met pro and a 24 year old sttng. Having way more fun then when I just owned a 9k woz.

That's not what he asked for, though.

New collectors can't find projects like we used to. They also don't want to buy from a rando with no warranty.

If they buy an old game from a dealer, it's alms of as much as NIB. So they go NIB. Answer the guys question or go to another thread.

Buy a NIB from Stern and you have yourself a project...

I was thinking more...

LOL...well that's why *I* don't buy NIB from Stern anymore ...but newbs are THEORETICALLY buying NIB cuz they want something new that works...but...well....yeah lol

The only thing I like better about The Hobbit is the art (and theme I guess). It's one of the most beautiful machines ever made. Otherwise, WOZ is a masterpiece. I can replay it forever and not just because the code is deep (I get bored of TSPP after one play). Play them for yourself of course but the poll overwhelming favors one over the other for a reason

I agree. My first pin (and only so far) is a JJP machine NIB. My next will likely be WOZ 2.0 (I guess NIB too, but I may go used WOZ with the new boards in a few months)

WOZ has been the least reliable game I've ever had. I can't speak for TH in a home environment but I know JJP has ironed out most or all of the bugs in the newer games. I like TH game play better too. Count this as a vote for TH based on this being your first game.

You're right.

I got my first machine around 2004, and you know what? It was an NIB LOTR. Great first pin purchase. So deep, so fun, so immersive, I didn't feel the need for another pin for another year. Now if I got one of those old pins I grew up playing, then ya - I would of had to buy 3-4 to fill the void that one NIB delivers.

JJP isn't much better. People still have problems with their games that are still trying to resolve. Node problems on WOZ are still happening for the early birds. Every manufacturer has problems. Nobody was exempt from problems. NIB doesn't mean it's not going to need work. personally a used game from a knowledgeable collector, that has been bulletproof, is usually way more dependable and plays better than a NIB.

Hobbit to me is "try to combo a shot, but oops, there's a popup head in my way" It's a troll or orc or goblin or whatever but I hate it, so I have to hit it, then get the ball back under control to make the next shot.

It might be deep but the design is uninspired. YMMV.

LOTR is epic for many reasons, including the fact that the movie theme is 10x better than The Hobbit. It's a rush when you stacking modes properly (I'm not talking stacking something ridiculous like 6 modes -- that's unnecessary in any pin) -- but starting Gandalf vs. Saraman, then Fellowship multiball to try to complete 2 at the same time. You get to Gifts from the Elves to cash in. Plus you can have Gollum waiting in case you drain to get a ball save and restart multiball.

It's an epic game and the perfect "long game of pinball" experience.

The game doesn't have a combo system & the beasts are something you want to shoot to get Multiball.

You can set the Beast difficulty so they don't pop up so much.

Wait for Dialed In. I've played all three and as far as gameplay I think DI is by far the best.

Yeah I just me combo as in the "flow" sense

Nope - JJP makes a far superior product today with a better warranty. If the op goes nib, the quality difference is night and day.

guess someone didn't buy WOZ when it came out.