I hope you play a Hobbit and then decide.

For me, I think Hobbit is more fun.

LTG : )

I have a WOZ with a Smaug on order. I think it will be hard to judge TH at this point. In a few months, when there is another update or 2, I think you will have a better picture. I do think that TH will be an amazing game. I love my WOZ and have no plans on selling it. Can you move any other games to pick up his option and keep both? Do you have to pay the full amount now?

Same here.....

It's impossible to judge a finished Pinball game code wise to one in the programming process. It's a gamble at this point, but I'd say get the Hobbit. I am a gambling man.

This will be an interesting thread. I've wondered which is the better pin myself, I'm going to buy one of them for sure. Op maybe add a poll? I'm leaning towards buying woz myself, but I think hobbit is a way better theme with amazing music. The woz playfield is so fun though and the code is very deep.

Will post a longer reply eventually but honestly I couldn't pick one or the other. I own both and think they are two of the best pins ever made.

I own WOZ and have played TH a few times, but as of now WOZ seems like the TZ of our generation. They basically let the designers do whatever the hell they wanted and then figured out if they could make profit. TH seems like it still has more features than most modern sterns but overall there is a big difference in fit/finish and features between the two games. If you want a fair comparison I think you would need to wait 2 years to see the finished code, but it seems like TH is fighting an uphill battle against WOZ.

Woz is my fav of all time! There is soo much so many shots. The hobbit is very cool too but not Woz. I love owning th. It really is fighting the up hill battle. I think the delay pissed people off so they are out to get them.
Looking forward to what th had to offer later with code.

Both are great!! You can't go wrong with either. WOZ is more polished, but Hobbit is getting there. Hobbit is really good right now.

Selling a RR woz is crazy talk. Lol. It has way too much going for it. If you love it, the grass isn't greener on the other side. Hobbit looks amazing, but not like woz is already. You may have just caught a new pinball bug that needs itched. If you have anything else to sell instead of woz, I would. Woz and TH look great together. That said, I'll get a hobbit asap when I have the money, but will never sell woz at this point.

I own both games.
They are totally different from each other, there cant be any realistic comparison between the 2.

I can tell you this:

My wife loves the WOZ and plays it regularly. She has a pretty good high score on it of above 600k.
The WOZ is fun, fast and immersive. The new Code is outstanding. She says that playing the WOZ is not like any of my other games at all. She hates fast brutal pinball and loves the WOZ. There is so much variety in the WOZ, she just loves it and has played enough that she is now sorting out the rules and having a blast. (I am not allowed to save my scores on "Her" game as they average over a million now each game )

The Hobbit™ is a shooters/players game. Its an adventure, you very much have to build the environment through the modes.
If you dont learn and complete the modes, the game will not offer you anything at all. This is the attraction for most enthusiasts (very much like the Twilight Zone).

My wife is frustrated by the Hobbit™(she also said that the TZ was a stupid game, which I owned for many years). She is a novice player and has difficulty making the shots on demand. She is stunned/awed by the music and artwork on both of the JJP games, but she will have to upgrade her skills to appreciate The Hobbit™ more.

However, she will play a game or two on the Hobbit™ become frustrated, and then put 10 games on her WOZ. She does play it a little, only I think to increase her shooting skills.

I have noticed that as she plays the Hobbit™ more, her scores on her WOZ are increasing. So, I think playing the Hobbit™ can make you a better player if you persist.

The game looks simple on the outside but can be incredibly complex, as you learn what to do.

You have to accurately make the shots on this game or you get nothing. But if you learn them and can make them, it's incredibly rewarding.

The Hobbit™ is a journey that has incredible battles to be won. The more I Master the modes, the more I become immersed in the journey and the adventure as it unfolds.

As an experienced player I find myself playing the Hobbit™ almost exclusively, other than a warm-up game or 2 on my ToM, to get me in the "zone".

As a novice player you will find there are tons of games out there that are fun and challenging for all skill levels.

For similar money, see if you can find a Medieval Madness in good shape (not MMr version) its another of my wifes favorites as well as the Bally/Williams Indiana Jones™. These games offer a lot of fun for any level of experience.

Just find the room for maybe 2 games in your home as 1 is never enough.

I own both as well and am an intermediate player.

First of all, I have to agree with some above that without final code it is hard to compare the two.

At present if I had to choose between the 2 I would choose the Hobbit as I believe it will develop into an interesting game and I find the WOZECLE I own to at this time be a chore to play. As The Hobbit may also develop into a slow moving mode game, it is new so I find it more interesting at present. The Hobbit does not have as many toys per se as WOZ, but the beauty of the art package, video, and sound more than make up for the lack of individual toys . the variability of the playfield with the 4 pop ups changes the feel of different modes.

The WOZ is clearly a lot like TZ (which I also own) and the Hobbit is really not like anything I own currently.

Neither game is fast paced and when I am strapped for time I find myself playing games like MET more and since I am often short on time. But I always like to get a few games on the Hobbit in when possible.

I expect you can always purchase one or the other if you want to wait until you play the Hobbit with full code or just sell your WOZ now and later regret that decision. It seems that JJP has sold enough for that to happen.

I went to pinfest few weeks ago with the primary intention of playing and then buying TH. However, woz was set up right along side. My daughter and I kept on being drawn over to woz, and both of us fell in love with woz. Standing next to each other, there was no comparison in my opinion. The quality of construction, commitment to detail, interactive toys, artwork, light show, depth of code (and innovative stuff like weak flipper and no hold flipper modes, etc) were all inarguably better on woz. The two upper play fields, the spinning house (and surprise drop door), the flying monkey, the wicked cool haunted tree pop bumpers, the ruby slipper flippers (that click there times before the ball saver), the crystal ball with display, the elevating witch toy, the castle doors and rescue miltiball, the callouts, the universal theme... The game is just absolutely ridiculous, with theme integration perhaps only matched by ij and lotr. I just can't fathom how this pin is not in the pinside top ten list, and wouldn't be surprised if it moves to number 1 at some point in time. The pin is just crazy awesome.

As for th, it's s a beautiful pin (smaug cab art is very cool, but perhaps bested by that of got le). I really wanted to love it, buts, aside from the orcs, there are really no interactive toys (I mean the dragon is pretty lame, at least with current code). The individually controlled drops are neat, but everything else was somewhat uninspiring. There just seamed to be too much empty space, and ultimately it just didn't move me viscerally).

Your results may vary.

I have the rrWOZ and love it...great game play, fantastic code, varying levels of challenge for lasting fun, solid piece of artwork with the display, cabinet, powder coatings, and the bright colors of the led's. I think it'll be hard to beat currently due in large part to the mature code. I've played the hobbit quite a bit at different locations, and it really grew on me. I originally was concerned with the open playfield on a widebody, but it really makes for some great shots, and as that code developed, it got even better. It will continue to improve (but I do enjoy it currently), But the best is yet to come for TH. The machine itself is just as visually impressive (if not more so) in comparison to the WOZ. The powder coating, led's and big LCD all embody the JJP impression, so it'd still look great as a stand-alone in a home or as part of a collection. The gameplay is different, but that's what I like about it...I wouldn't want the same machine as WOZ, but with Hobbit marketing. The adventure/progression of the game is fun, and JJP's proven track record of continually updating and improving code helped me make the jump into ordering a TH-LE. But if you're on the fence and have to make the call of one or another, I'd stick with the WOZ for awhile, and as TH develops and you actually get to play it more, you can always jump into a used one at a better price...or do the trade-up

This is a good thread,
I don't own either but I have a Hobbit Smaug on order.
My MMr arrived in January and I told my wife that's it now I don't need any more (have a TAF, TZ, CV and Getaway).
I sent my machines to a show and walked through the door and there was the Hobbit, brought there by Pinball Heaven UK. I fell in love, I wanted it, before I even played it, it was the most stunning thing I had ever seen.
Phoned the wife and she knows me well so she said just get it then!
I posted a review on Pinball Heaven's website saying how amazing I thought it was and next day got an email from the owner of Pinball Heaven saying thanks for the review and if you want one let's see what we can do.
I was straight on the phone and 5 minutes later placed my CV in as PX and he did me a good deal on The Hobbit.
We talked and I expressed my concerns as which is better of the JJP machines, WOZ or Hobbit.
To cut a long story short, I had read all the negative reviews on the Hobbit, all the rave reviews about GB and wondered if maybe WOZ is a safer bet than the Hobbit, my wife always thought it was great and she shows no interest in pinball other than liking my TZ more than any others even if she only has a go once in a blue moon.
I call to chat with Pinball Heaven and he says he has a woz and I am more than welcome to borrow it for a few months to see what I think(Top man!).
It arrives next week so I will be putting some time in on it and although I won't get much time on a Hobbit I have one coming so I feel I will know if I feel I have made the right decision.
I will add again when I have put some time on WOZ.
So thanks for staying through the pointless story so far but I've had a few beers (that's my excuse) and Hobbit/WOZ/GB has been on my mind since I did the deal.
I really feel The Hobbit will be great, something so stunning can't be bad surely?

I'm considering TH but down the road. I'm no , great shakes on woz either but the last 2 updates have opened the game up.

I have a few adjustment suggestions.
If you are on 3 ball games add extra ball for scores like 100k,250k 500k or something like that. If you have a stinker gAme you only have to endure 3 balls of discouragement. If you do well you earn more balls to get farther and see more of what the pin offers.

Also I adjusted hits to witch hurry up to make it somewhat attainable. I have only melted witch once and I know that's pitiful.
However I see more of what the games offers and its fantastic.

You should keep the woz give it more time.

Well said. I own both and it's hard to top WOZ with regards to what JJP put into the machine.

But, if the gameplay doesn't grab you, Hobbit might be a better fit and is still a lot of machine for the money compared to other new games on the market, IMO. If the main reason you don't like WOZ is the difficulty, you can try making it easier by closing up the out lanes a bit, adding ball save time, setting to 5 ball, making it easier to get extra balls, turning down the pop-bumper power, etc..

Since you weren't blown away with your previous Hobbit experiences, I would try to play it where it's set-up well and has the latest code to see if you like it more.

Price is also a factor. If you're taking over someone's Smaug pre-order at $7500, there's little risk in buying it and reselling if you don't care for the game. If you're buying at the current $9000 price, it's probably better to wait until the game is further along and/or pick it up later (maybe even HUO for a discount).

So are you saying you prefer Woz over Hobbit? Can you provide details as to why?

It's too soon to tell which game I will prefer overall.

I think WOZ tops the Hobbit in the "world under glass" category.

Hobbit tops WOZ in the video effects category.

They play very differently. I like both, no clear winner in that category.

I like where the code is heading in the Hobbit but the basic game has yet to be fully implemented, along with further rounds of polishing. I'll have a better idea once this is done.

For those on the fence. If you like the way WOZ plays, I would get that as it's a fantastic game with tons to explore and do. Give the Hobbit another 6 months to a year for the code to fully mature. I anticipate it will rival and/or exceed WOZ in some ways and vice versa.

My 2 cents: I own a WoZ LE and have a Smaug on order. I like WoZ a lot and it will not leave my collection any time soon anymore (sold it before but had to get one back).

The Hobbit has a lot of potential. Really a lot. If they keep up the updates it will be an epic machine. The problem with it is that a lot of people do not get the game yet. That has been with a lot of new machines. The fact that they all ship with uncompleted code adds to that fact. How many times did we see a game almost destroyed on here and after some time and some updates being praised into the skies ? Nobody can judge The Hobbit as it stands now as nobody knows what it will be after each and every update that JJP will make for the machine.

Add the fact that very few players make good use of the big screen on a JJP machine. It gives a lot of useful information and insight in the game. We have to learn how to play the JJP games as they are fundamentally different than anything before it. It has a big screen and you need to look at it. Not like the DMD games on which you could see some animations and your score only. It is like the status info pages of a DMD game, but live as you play. This is especially true for WoZ. The Hobbit has an extra LCD on the playfield which makes it a little easier to look at while playing.

My opinion is that you should not sell the WoZ before you get any decent time on a Hobbit. Go find one and play it. The gameplay cannot be compared to WoZ, just as you cannot compare the gameplay of say a Star Trek against a Lord of the Rings. They are just very different games and what one person likes very much, another person can dislike. Nobody is the same.

WOZ is one of the greatest pinballs ever made, period. Designers threw every trick in the the book into WOZ (save for a subway) and some... The code is simply amazing... It shoots like nothing else ever made. It's 10,000 leagues under the sea deep. Someone above said its this decade's TZ. I'd argue it is...but way better.

I've played quite a few games on TH... Not an owner...folks who are Hobbit die-hard a might love the story it presents, and that's fine, but the design (IMHO) isn't that interesting and the movies were just middling (if that) at best. The whole package is just kind of *meh* to me. This isn't to say that I'm a WOZ movie fanatic... But the story is a timeless classic the machine truly captures its essence.

OP... Keep your RR

We own both WOZLE and Hobbit both are great games but very different. We enjoyed the ride as Woz matured and it is truly amazing in presentation and gameplay. Saying that, if I had to sell one right now it would be Woz because after over two years of playing Woz it' s been great, but it's a lot of fun to start a new adventure. Hobbit is a fresh and exciting challenge right now and it is only going to get better as it develops .

I'm an owner of both. Both are great games. The Hobbit gets played all the time now, and WOZ sits dark. I love WOZ, so it's not because I don't want to play it, but I want to "learn" the Hobbit more. Woz is complete. Hobbit is good but not finished regarding code. I saw great potential with Woz at the beginning, and I see the same with Hobbit. Which do I like more? Ask me in a year when the code for Hobbit is complete. Try playing both, but keep in mind, Hobbit is in early stages of code. If you don't look for the potential, in Hobbit, it wouldn't surprise me if you chose WOZ. For me, neither are leaving anytime soon.

I'm a new owner of both. Picked up Woz after TH. Both are fresh to me.

If you are looking for the game that's better right now, not potentially better, it's Woz. I think the layout with two upper playfields, along with the finished rules is superior.

The only thing better about TH right now is the implementation of the LCD. The coding needs improvement. It's too much multiball, and pop ups.

The potential for TH is real, but not certain. Woz is real right now. If you are looking to get just one of these today, I'd get Woz.

The games are different, so having both would not be redundant. But it makes sense to wait on TH and see where it ends up.

I own TH only right now, but I am budgetting to get WOZ early next year. I love both of them

Interested as well. Played enough woz iwondering about hobbit played it in earlier stages at expo. Anyone ??

I recently bought a hobbit and am now looking for a woz. Jjp games are very impressive. Woz seems like a much harder game with faster ball times, the hobbit is an adventure, very immersive. Its hard to appreciate both on route in loud environments. They both shine in a home environment.

Update from post #17. I bought TH 2 months ago. Woz has very cool features and lighting is exceptional. However both are awesome and in my personal wheelhouse.

I pre-ordered both pins. They arrived late in their build cycle and had later software installed. Both are great games for very different reasons. Right now I enjoy playing the Hobbit more...a true 'shooters' pin. Honestly I never thought it would turn out to be as much fun as it did. Great game IMO...my current favorite.

Does the hobbit have complete code yet or is there still more to update. Just curious as i just bough TH!

My Hobbit came with 1.90 code. There is a beta 1.94 version available. I'm waiting for the finalized 1.94 version before I attempt to install it.

Keith from JJP said there is more to come regarding coding for TH. Wasn't specific on how many more releases we'll see, but there will be more without a doubt.

I'm on 1.3 / 1.31 / 1.3x at the moment. Have 1.94 beta but haven't installed it yet - was waiting for a formal release.

In my opinion, both machines are great. Different playing experiences for sure. I think WOZ is easier to grasp and is more of a family-friendly pin for what it's worth. TH is more of a player's pin and requires more attention. Kids/people who aren't interested in TH as a theme will probably not really bond with the machine and will probably not end up liking it. I happen to love it, and I'm a horrible pinball player. My neighbor has WOZ and I love it too. We are contemplating swapping his WOZ for my LOTR, just to keep our meager line-ups "fresh!"

Both are gorgeous machines that have great light shows, awesome deep code, great video, etc. If TH as a theme interests you, I say go for it. If not, then I would recommend you spend some additional time playing it in the wild, if you can, before you buy.

These machines are no longer chump change so if you're unsure, better to do what you can to experience it before you buy.

Just realized I am responding to an original post that happened 8 months ago!!! Decision, whatever it was, has probably already been made!!

I am no longer an owner of both. TH is gone. Despite the depth of rules and book modes, it was just too much multi-ball and pop-up monotony. Yes, I know we can adjust the frequency, but it still felt monotonous trying to work toward the arkenstone modes. TH will improve with new code, but I am moving on.

TH just felt too exhausting to play. I thought the most interesting shot was sinking the two gobble holes for the extra ball. In contrast, I can walk up to Woz and always feel there is something interesting to achieve that isn't too far away. It doesn't require the duration of a monotonous multi ball before you attain something interesting.

TH just stopped drawing me in.

This is my situation exactly. I had both, but now only have WOZ. A GB prem took TH place and it has been played 10 times as much. TH is cool and beautiful, but the gameplay just didn't do it for me.

My thoughts exactly. I used the money from TH to buy a Met Premium and haven't looked back.

I own both and WOZ is amazing and will never leave my collection. I was thinking about selling The Hobbit, but truthfully, I cannot stop playing it. The sound on the Hobbit is one of the best ever, the game is just so immersive. The video clips are incredible, it feels like all 3 movies are contained in the video. Sure the layout could be better and there could be better programming for the modes, but overall I like the game a lot. I've decided JJP games are top notch and I am in no hurry to sell either. I also own a GB premium and honestly it's difficult to compare all three because they are so different.