why would JJ put such an incomplete game at a show, so late in the game? these are supposed to ship next week.

something doesn't sound right.

So when is this game suppose to Ship?

just overall lack of code. i was expecting to hear a review of a finished game with awesome modes. just disappointed i guess.

Not even close. A proper setup TZ will play ALOT faster than those two games that were setup.

Those games couldn't have been more than 5.5 to 6 degrees. I think you could swap the front and rear legs and not notice any pitch change!

Has this ever been properly explained? Every single show. Every single video, the game is never setup with a typical pitch. Why is this?

it has to be the flippers - if you can't get the strength then you have to reduce the pitch. The problem is the misinformation that is given. The flippers are fine - but those who have played know they are not where they should be.

I just think they're playing their finished code "close to the vest". Maybe they want those of you who've purchased this game to experience the finished package first. So the first real "finished" game, will be when a customer receives it.

I can respect not giving away all of the gameplay until release, but the yellow brick road still in attract mode is pathetic. I'm sure everyone expects more by now. Thanks for the info, with several programmers onboard now whats the holdup?

If that is true why would Jack not come out and say that? Putting out the same test game over and over just stirs the pot and pisses buyers off. I mean, honestly.. does any buyer not feel a little bothered by this?

I'll be glad when they finally get all the little 'bugs' out of this pin and get that code completed!

Jack's response on JJP group:

One had older code yesterday, They both have 58p today.

Code 58P:

Some of what I know is:

- Multiball system fully implemented.

- Power options added for most coils in the game, including bumpers,
slings, flippers, and poppers.

- Started implementing audits.

- Added trough popper and auto launch coil to coil adjustments.

- Ball save options

- option to release balls held in 3 ball lock or not

- Added a bunch of shaker motor stuff. The shaker will currently go
off when hitting the castle doors, shooting the throne room popper,
going around the house upper playfield (stronger each time), and all
the ECMB lock/start animations.

I'm just taking a shot in the dark, guys, because the reality is I think there should be more to see than that. Only Jack knows for sure. I'm just gonna pull up a seat and watch this unfold, whether it's good or bad it should be interesting.

I would be a little concerned, only in as far as how much longer will it take to complete. This is why I would be extremely hesitant to go all in on The Hobbit. I'd really have to love a theme to be patient enough to wait years.

Deja Vu all over again.

Your telling me. Very Disappointed.

Not me par for the course

That seems like it may take years! My biggest problem is that those of you that slapped down 6500 in the beginning still seem to not have a clue when your pin is coming. That is just wrong. There should be constant communications with the paid customers. Liquidated damages would of been a novel idea! If you guys don't get your pin in 2013 a refund 500 bucks!!! I still want this pin but the whole deal with schedule really isn't cool for the guys that have paid. That is a lot of money!

All JJP needs to do is hire people that know what their doing!! The flippers aren't the problem, it's the placement of the ramp. Way to far back. The game seems far from done. IMHO

This doesn't look like the kinds of change log you want to see if you think the game is going to ship with completed code in a couple weeks - from an xmen owner. Was that really what was on the owners forum or your summary of what you see different?

I was thinking the exact same thing! If that post was supposed to be comforting in some way...it wasn't.

I'll play it in a few more weeks at MGC. I'll see how it is for myself.

I get the holding back features maybe.. But audits (from post above)? That's more of a core framework thing (game independent) that there'd be not a good reason to hold back short of it actually being in work.

It shouldn't matter if it's far back. I don't have any problem hitting the Alpha ramp on STTNG, and that's about as far of a ramp shot as I can think of on any game.

Hmmm. We have been sincerely promised pins will ship in March. Either they are coming out with very bare code or Jack has something up his sleeve. Strange one. Programming light shows should be relatively straight forward at least

If games are shipping soon, why do they have to be secretive at this point?

I just hope they start shipping. My regular won't show up until august anyway.

He has said that games will ship this month so it won't be great PR if they don't.

Neither will shipping it with incomplete code.

See numerous threads bashing Stern on that subject.

Also see numerous WoZ threads where people said that JJP would never release a pin with unfinished code.

They are?

The sky is not falling. I'm sure Keith's code on his own machine is A LOT further along than this. However, it is probably not fully tested. What is Keith to do - send out code that is farther along but may contain bugs or other issues? No, he sends out code that is tried and true, and "safe".

How far along is the code REALLY...? Nobody but Keith and his team knows, and they are pretty busy right now! Since Jack has committed to shipping the games this month, there will be a REAL game to play. However, that game will be getting enhanced over the year I am sure, because Keith and the team will make it the best game possible.

Deadlines are the bane of a software developer, but we have no choice but to live with them and produce the best product we can in the time we are given. I am sure the pressure is on to ship SOMETHING as soon as possible, and they will. How full-featured will it be? I don't know, but I am confident it will get better with time.

There is no benifit to holding back any basic functionality. If it was complete it would be on the machines at the Ohio show. These trade shows are where companies want to show off their products building excitement and most importantly driving additional sales. For people that think they would hold back functionality to surprise people that have already paid in full at the risk of loosing new customer dollars are sadly mistaken. Business is about making a profit and every bad impression of their game has the potential to drive prospective customers to a competing product. The amount of overhead that has been accumulated since this venture has began must be astronomical, can you imagine just the payroll? these are not low wage employees and they have been getting payed for years without the benifit of any regular company profits. The pre sale dollars can't support those expenses for this period of time. So I say no way he is holding back to surprise anyone.

Ignore user...it's just a troll post. Seriously, there are a ton of games with ramps that far back. This guy loves to troll the WOZ topics and bash. That being said...the state of the code is disappointing. In the end I believe we'll get some truly awesome code, but it looks like it may be a while. Many people's patience is wearing thin in the meantime though.

Bit of a sticky wicket.

I don't think that's it....this is purely speculation, and I don't know jack about programming....but here's a theory. Could it be that programming all the different modes, light shows, animation, etc are "modular"? For example, maybe Keith has all these great modes programmed already - but can't implement them into the functioning gameplay code yet for one reason or another...or maybe he tried but found some structural bugs so he "placed them aside" to reprogram things so everything will work correctly and bug free? Once those things are worked out, the finished modes can then be then dropped in? I dunno...just a thought. I have to imagine he had the whole game plotted out in one way or another - it's not as though he reaches a certain point and says "OK, now I'm going to start from scratch on this mode...OK, that mode's done, now I'm starting the next one from square one".

In case that was confusing as hell...my theory is: More "pieces" are done than we've seen, but the "puzzle" just needs to be assembled.

my theory is they are where they are - nothing hidden behind the curtain. its not like any part of this project has gone good. Remember when we were told that the delays were because some part was missing from a vendor... last memorial day? Come to find out this game is barely programed - its just a case of bad project management - it happens, you learn... but as I posted in another thread I am officially in Anger mode.

This is disappointing. My chin is up however.

My money is that the code will never be 'finished' as they will have to focus on the next project to stay alive.

I hope for everyone's sake that I am wrong, but ...

Chris

Well, I would like to see things further along, but I can wait until the game is done. I am confident WOZ will be worth the wait. No worries here.

Not the most logical because programers have nothing to do with art and such. The next game is not due out for years - they have to simply show a playfield to get that next deposit funded.

The next project isn't slated to be released until the Hobbit 3 comes out in Dec 2014 so JJP needs WOZ to be complete and successful to stay alive. I believe that it will be completed and will be a incredible game, but it will likely take more time and resources than anyone has anticipated. Without a successful and "complete" WOZ there will be no 2nd game because consumer's won't have enough confidence to put money down on a 2nd or 3rd JJP title. We just need to be more patient, which is tough considering how long the wait has been up to this point!

Not a programmer myself, but if the "game rules/modes" are that far behind, then my guess is they have much more fundamental programming issues they've been dedicating their effort to at the OS level. They are essentially focusing on the API's for the game (WOZ) needed for it to access pieces of the OS. The OS should not be unique to each game (WOZ or Hobbit). Does anyone know the status of the OS itself. It's Linux based correct? - but that doesn't say much as they could have considerable Dev/Programming work on the OS itself before ever getting to WOZ the game.

My concern on Hobbit then is that its just a "re-skinned" WOZ. I'm fully supporting this, not bashing JJP, just thinking out lound.

I would agree - when I was at the expo, by the end of the night the game was a bit of a mess, they had to turn it off every few minutes to fix problems on the LCD.

You guys have the patience of saints. I'm not sure if Jack realizes this but JJP's greatest achievement thus far is the dedication of his customer base.

Looking in from the outside I really want this project to succeed. But if I had bought in I'd be out of my mind by now.

Yeah, and people still think the green lucite topper is what will ship with their LEs.

you are probably correct. i'm not a programmer but i see how our programmers at work function, i work closely with them sometimes. sometimes they will copy and paste code into our program which are already implemented into the program in one of our other warehouses. so it's completely possible they are working on multiple sections of the code, waiting to plug them in when they are ready. i don't beleive they work in a liniar fashion when code writing.