(Topic ID: 120230)

WOZ throne room scoring bug exposed


By PinballHelp

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Wolfmarsh
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

12
#1 4 years ago

With the help of Marcus Trevino and Josh Tidmore I was able to find and document the scoring bug that has been discussed as being used in competition. I feel keeping this exploit secret doesn't serve the community. It's better for everybody to know rather than just a select few. So here it is:

http://pinballhelp.com/woz-throne-room-bug-exposed/

In a nutshell, the exploit has to do with the second phase of Emerald City Multiball Jackpots. In order to use the exploit you do the following:

1. Start ECMB (Emerald City Multi Ball) by lighting all the character letters and locking 3 balls in the center/right ramp.

2. Complete the first phase of ECMB jackpot shots by hitting a character rollover and then shooting the right/center ramp. After all three characters are collected, you then shoot the throne room to approach the Wizard.

3. The second phase involves rolling over each character button (Tin Man, Scarecrow, Cowardly Lion) and then shooting the throne room to collect the jackpot/reward

You're supposed to hit each character + throne room to get a jackpot.

The Jackpot starts at 20k and then increases by 10k for each subsequent Jackpot, so ideally completing the second wave would yield:

20k + 30k + 40k = 90k total points for all three character jackpots in the second phase.

However, if you avoid hitting the second and third character rollovers, and instead keep shooting the throne room, you can rack up consecutive, cumulative jackpots in perpetuity (20k + 30k + 40k + 50k + 60k, etc.) theoretically scoring endless amounts of points and jackpots that keep increasing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fvVXoWA9ebc

#2 4 years ago

#wheresthecode

-11
#3 4 years ago

Totally sad making that public. All I can say. If indeed true.

#4 4 years ago

I think the general consensus is it's not very easy to exploit this bug. Possible? Yes. And relatively likely you could hit it accidentally, but to intentionally nail the throne room over and over without losing control of the balls probably requires a high degree of skill. There are probably some tricks that could be used to make exploiting the bug easier, but I think there's probably already a fix in the works.

Now that the exploit is known, people know what to look for. It's the right thing to do.

Otherwise, it would have been pretty difficult to spot it being used. An extra jackpot or three during multiball?

Will making this public affect operator revenue? I can't imagine anyone would seriously believe it would. Only a very high-end player could do this, and they're not the type that would exploit a location game.

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Totally sad making that public. All I can say. If indeed true.

Why is this sad?

It is an exploit that could give one player a HUGE advantage over an opponent.

And the video posted shows exactly how abusive the exploit can get during a game.

Now, it is a tough point to reach. But with practice, a player could reach the Emerald City MultiBall and quickly separate himself from his opponent, especially if the opponent does not know about the exploit.

In my opinion, exposing the exploit levels the playing field between players. And Tournament Directors can decide if they want to keep WOZ in competitions.

As a Tournament Director, I would be ok with WOZ in a head to head competition. The exploit still requires a tremendous amount of skill to reach and execute.

But even if a TD decides to keep WOZ out of his/her event, at least players would be aware of the reasons.

Marcus

#6 4 years ago

What bothers me about this is that the people that knew about the bug had no intention of letting anybody else know, even active tournament directors such as myself who own the game and use it regularly in tournaments. We used WOZ in the state pinball championships.

If someone had told me the details and said, "please use this to make sure the tournaments are fair but don't tell anybody", I would have done just that. But the attitude of a few, being unwilling to let others, even tourney directors, know about the exploit in order to keep their tournaments fair is what motivated me to want to publish it once I figured it out.

It's not fair to the community. Especially owners and tournament directors. So now everybody knows. And it will be unlikely someone will try to use this to give themselves an unfair advantage in a competitive scene.

#7 4 years ago

Guess having a choice whether to get screwed over or not is sad, then sure...it's sad.

Guess if you're one of the IFPA Elites that knew about the bug and were confident enough with your WOZ skills to use it, might be sad...for you.

Personally, I don't see this as an elite-difficulty bug to take advantage of. You're talking about less effort to get to "phase 2" of the multiball than it is to start the multiball itself. Once you're there, it's throne room, a rollover, and another throne room to start rolling. It's really going to come down to how generous the TR kickout is. If it's brutal...this isn't an issue. If you can catch the ball on EITHER flipper right out of the throne room....well.

#8 4 years ago

Thanks for sharing.

#9 4 years ago

Jeepers. When I heard there was an exploit I really wanted to know it. Now that I know... Well I can't hit the Throne Room during ECMB for shit. I get through the ramps, but then my skills let me down. There is no way I'm keeping 100% control to even come close to exploiting this

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Totally sad making that public. All I can say. If indeed true.

Why is it sad that it is public? Keefer will fix it. He is one programmer that we can count on.

#11 4 years ago

Put yourself in the programmers shoes is all I'll say and comment about.

I should add that I have no knowledge of the bug/exploit at all before this thread popped up. (EDIT)

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Put yourself in the programmers shoes is all I'll say and comment about.

It's hard to believe, but the guy is human after all. I don't see anyone that's all up in arms like "JESUS CHRIST DUDE WHY DID YOU DO THAT?"

Clearly, it's not intentional in the fashion it's being employed, and as deep as the ruleset is here, come on... I'm pretty sure that everyone here will keep loving his rulesets and the fact that he's going out of his way to get an update pushed through for it just shows his dedication, so I don't get your point, at all.

16
#13 4 years ago

If anyone is threatened by this bug, download this update (it only works on top of 4.10).

-1
#14 4 years ago

The game gets vaccinated. What's next, neutered!

#15 4 years ago

I don't know this game, played it maybe 3-4 times in early code, but from what I see this has to take place during a multiball, right?

So, after competing phase 1, enter phase 2, and while keeping one ball under control/cradled/out of the way, repeatedly hit the throne room, and avoid any other rollovers to avoid completing the specific collection requirements for each character. This allows the player to exploit the jackpot. Right?

Is it that easy to do with the glass ON? How does the throne kickout? Since we just saw some hand manipulation with the glass OFF, is the exploit actually executed by trapping on both flippers, making the throne from the left flipper, transferring the cradled ball right to left, catching the throne kickout on right, and repeat?

I guess my question is: Is it really an exploit, or just not the way the rules were intended? Seems to take some skill.

#16 4 years ago

Unintentional behavior, because the jackpot grows without limit. A hypothetically exploitative situation would be: 2 balls cradled on right, tap one up into the throne room, and if the kickout is friendly, it'll bounce off the left flipper to the right and back to a cradle for rinse/repeat.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

If anyone is threatened by this bug, download this update (it only works on top of 4.10).

I rest my case. Awesome.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballcorpse:

I guess my question is: Is it really an exploit, or just not the way the rules were intended? Seems to take some skill.

Definitely not intended based on keefer's feedback on the subject.

Thanks, Keefer, for your dedication to an enjoyable and balanced game, and taking care of the scoring bug.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

If anyone is threatened by this bug, download this update (it only works on top of 4.10).

Thanks for the update! I hope you're not upset about the reveal. I assume you were ready to release an update anyway.

To be honest, I would have contacted you first, but I've tried in the past and not gotten a response from you.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

Only a very high-end player could do this, and they're not the type that would exploit a location game.

Why do you think that they would not exploit location games?

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from Newsom:

Why do you think that they would not exploit location games?

And with the new ticket mode coming, that could actually be profitable if the bug existed in the ticketing version of the code,

#23 4 years ago

The bug has nothing to do with Pindemption™.

As far as people not exploiting it, of course they will. People like being dicks. I guess it's human nature.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Pindemption™

Yeah, I'm not going to call it that.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 42.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 64.00
$ 15.00
Playfield - Protection
Pin Mods
$ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 8,500.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 9,500.00
$ 16.95
8,100 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Arlington, VA
$ 120.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Concord, NH
7,900 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Elgin, IL
$ 48.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 165.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pixels Arcade Games
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
$ 50.00
From: $ 24.00
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside