(Topic ID: 79147)

WOZ Throne Room clear chipping & connector fun

By iepinball

10 years ago


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  • 130 posts
  • 59 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by metallik
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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There are 130 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 10 years ago

Ha ha ha
Ho ho ho
And a couple of tra la las
That's how we laugh the day away
In the merry old land of Oz

Bzz, bzz, bzz
Chirp, chirp, chirp
And a couple of La di das
That's how the crickets crick all day
In the merry old land of Oz

We get up at twelve and start to work at one
Take an hour for lunch and then at two we're done
Jolly good fun

Ha ha ha
Ho ho ho
And a couple of tra la las
That's how we laugh the day away
In the merry old land of Oz

Ha ha ha
Ho ho ho
Ha ha ha ha ha
That's how we laugh the day away
With a ho ho ho ha ha ha
In the merry old land of Oz

Wipe down here
Wipe down there
And a couple drops of super glue
That's how we keep you young and fair
In the merry old land of Oz

Rub, rub here
Rub, rub there
Whether you're clear or brass
That's how we keep you in repair
In the merry old land of Oz

We can make a dimple PF smile out of a frown
Can you even powdercoat to match my gown? Uh-huh
Jolly old town

Chip, chip here
Chip, chip there
We give the roughest holes
That certain air of savoir faire
In the merry old land of Oz

Ha ha ha
Ho ho ho
Ho ho ho ho ho
That's how we laugh the day away
In the merry old land of Oz

That's how we laugh the day away
With a ha ha ha, ha ha ha, ha ha ha
Ha ha ha, ha ha ha, ha ha ha
In the merry old land of Oz

Ha ha ha, ho ho oh, ha ha ha
Ah ha ha

#52 10 years ago
Quoted from iepinball:

Yes, I have one but my point was why should I have to use it to remove something that should be easily removable. Very odd design decision.

Not odd, poor.

#53 10 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

If I were jack, I'd roll my eyes at all the nit picking. Games get worn down, clearcoat isn't forever. If you guys don't want your games to wear down, take out the balls.

Wow bold statement; never had that kind of wear on any of my sterns; just weird that it would wear in the home environment that bad.

#54 10 years ago

A Stern Tron or Xmen with no protection on the sides of the scoop will show wear and chipping within a hundred games. Holes like this above will last a bit longer, but any shot off to the side that still catches the metal scoop will dig into the clear and tear it up.

#55 10 years ago

I bought a cliffy for my XMEN and was in no hurry to install but after 100 or so plays the black line was starting to chip next to the hole. Wish I would have installed it right away to prevent the chipping.

#56 10 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

A Stern Tron or Xmen with no protection on the sides of the scoop will show wear and chipping within a hundred games. Holes like this above will last a bit longer, but any shot off to the side that still catches the metal scoop will dig into the clear and tear it up.

Quoted from musketd:

Wow bold statement; never had that kind of wear on any of my sterns; just weird that it would wear in the home environment that bad.

All joking aside, the clear coat on Sterns is so thin it would be difficult to tell if it was chipped

#57 10 years ago
Quoted from j69:

All joking aside, the clear coat on Sterns is so thin it would be difficult to tell if it was chipped

My STLE has a thick clear coat on it... I was extremely impressed with it!

#58 10 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

The real joke is the fanbois bragged about quality before machine one was ever done. They had no reference to even make such a claim. But many of them still defend against reality. God love them, everyone has to have a hobby.

Not quite true. Many people have seen the components and insides of a WOZ long before they were shipping (for example, at the JJP holiday party over a year ago)--stuff like the populated playfields, cabinets, speakers, cpu box, custom plastic toys, etc. The earlier announcements of thicker/more-ply playfield wood, extra clear, simplified coil choices (only 3-4 different ones in the entire game), etc., all were carried out. So there was some basis for applauding the improved build/component quality before the game was finished.

I've been supportive of JJP for several reasons: trying to make a better pinball game, redesigning weak components on the fly, adding bonus extras like the headphone jack, crystal ball display, quality sound system, etc. and to actually put more stuff on the playfield (instead of using cheapening parts and cutting pennies everywhere).

That said, JJP and WOZ aren't perfect. I've had a few minor tweaks to do on my game (a 7.5v version), nothing major but not flawless out of the box. Align an LED, lubricate the flying monkey transport, adjust a few coil strengths (easy!), tweak the pop switch sensitivities. And yes, there have been more significant problems reported and discussed, most notably the serial LED system (which was revamped after the first few months of production and is being completely changed with the Hobbit). And there are other weirder/less-obvious glitches being reported and fixed. WOZ is not perfect, but for something as complex as a pinball game based on an entirely new hardware/software platform, I think it's doing about as well as could be expected. And I expect to see far fewer problems for their second title--it's a learning curve and all the preplanning in the world won't prevent all the little things that can happen in the real world. But, when the glitches are ironed out, I still see WOZ as a refreshingly diverse and interesting game, with a more solid build and more thought put into the design than any pin title of recent vintage.

#59 10 years ago
Quoted from musketd:

Wow bold statement; never had that kind of wear on any of my sterns; just weird that it would wear in the home environment that bad.

It's not happening on every game....I've seen wear on ACDC Premium's that is not present on my own ACDC Premium. Should Stern games start showing wear in the shooter lane after a couple hundred games? That's why there are cliffys for those of us that are very picky about keeping are games looking new in typical ball wear spots.

#60 10 years ago

Delete post

#61 10 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

I hear the WOZ clearcoat was going to chip pinballs lol

Actually, this will be a moot point.

Due to "operator demand" the clearcoated playfields will be replaced with decals on future shipments... these are actually far easier to replace when damaged...

#62 10 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

Ha ha ha
Ho ho ho
And a couple of tra la las
That's how we laugh the day away
In the merry old land of Oz
Bzz, bzz, bzz
Chirp, chirp, chirp
And a couple of La di das
That's how the crickets crick all day
In the merry old land of Oz
We get up at twelve and start to work at one
Take an hour for lunch and then at two we're done
Jolly good fun
Ha ha ha
Ho ho ho
And a couple of tra la las
That's how we laugh the day away
In the merry old land of Oz
Ha ha ha
Ho ho ho
Ha ha ha ha ha
That's how we laugh the day away
With a ho ho ho ha ha ha
In the merry old land of Oz
Wipe down here
Wipe down there
And a couple drops of super glue
That's how we keep you young and fair
In the merry old land of Oz
Rub, rub here
Rub, rub there
Whether you're clear or brass
That's how we keep you in repair
In the merry old land of Oz
We can make a dimple PF smile out of a frown
Can you even powdercoat to match my gown? Uh-huh
Jolly old town
Chip, chip here
Chip, chip there
We give the roughest holes
That certain air of savoir faire
In the merry old land of Oz
Ha ha ha
Ho ho ho
Ho ho ho ho ho
That's how we laugh the day away
In the merry old land of Oz
That's how we laugh the day away
With a ha ha ha, ha ha ha, ha ha ha
Ha ha ha, ha ha ha, ha ha ha
In the merry old land of Oz
Ha ha ha, ho ho oh, ha ha ha
Ah ha ha

Really need a song about the Metallica update (lack of)

-4
#63 10 years ago

What the hell is going on with these playfields? What about the claims about quality? After seeing that damage I will not be buy a JJP game anytime soon. I'm guessing others are doing the same if they get played. My STLE still is looking great after 250 plays, why can't jjp games look the same? Who's doing the playfields??? Anyone know???

#64 10 years ago
Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

What the hell is going on with these playfields? What about the claims about quality? After seeing that damage I will not be buy a JJP game anytime soon. I'm guessing others are doing the same if they get played. My STLE still is looking great after 250 plays, why can't jjp games look the same? Who's doing the playfields??? Anyone know???

Nothing's going on with the PFs, and this damage is an anomaly - it's the first I've heard of it here or on the JJP board. Shit happens. And you weren't ever going to buy a JJP product anyway because you like to flame their stuff every chance you get.

#65 10 years ago
Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

What the hell is going on with these playfields? What about the claims about quality? After seeing that damage I will not be buy a JJP game anytime soon. I'm guessing others are doing the same if they get played. My STLE still is looking great after 250 plays, why can't jjp games look the same? Who's doing the playfields??? Anyone know???

Well, it's not all playfields. I'm one of the early orders. I play mine nearly every day. My playfield still looks perfect. But the problems that have been talked about lately made me order a set of protectors, that's for sure. At this point, I'm very pleased with the quality of my machine but a little preventative maintenance doesn't hurt.

I have to agree with StevenP. Even though WoZ isn't perfect, JJP is giving it a good go and future products should improve from here. Jack said all along that this was going to be the worst pinball machine he ever builds. I suspect those that are getting The Hobbit will see improvements.

-2
#66 10 years ago

Asking a question is flaming now?? So I should run out and buy a JJP game after seeing that image? Why? You don't know what I going to do so why make that statement? My buddy has issues with his WOZ and the support is useless. Seems like you parachute in every WOZ post and play clean up. I've got other games and none of them have that kind of damage. Actually how would you know what's normal or abnormal with WOZ playfields? What's your insight? Who's making those playfields?

#67 10 years ago

A select few Wozzers, as we have repeatedly seen, can be very SENSITIVE to any questions about the game. Denials, excuses, etc......

It's pinball, stuff does happen, no matter who the manufacturer is.

Hopefully, all things eventually get worked out soon, and JJP makes many new games.

Kudos to those who bought number one, and even more kudos to those still waiting on game number one.

JJP number three could hit it out of the park, waiting patiently......

#68 10 years ago

I wasn't being sensitive - his post was just silly. It's one thing to talk about the RGB board problem...that's a big maintenance issue that I would never jump in to defend. But this is the first PF clearcoat issue and he's making it sound like there's a big PF issue. Ridiculous. It's like me trying to infer that all Stern flippers fail because one person's flipper went bad in the first few months. That would be just as stupid.

Asking a question isn't flaming...unless there's a malicious intent and negative inference in the tone and based on the poster's past history. And here, there clearly was.

#69 10 years ago

The playfield on my WOZ still looked like new after nearly 400 plays... No signs of wear that I could find.

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#71 10 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

The playfield,on my WOZ still looked like new after nearly 400 plays... No signs of wear that I could find.

I had to read thru way too many posts to find this one. The first thing we need to figure out is if this is chronic, or a one off. Or maybe there was a certain pattern to issues.

So far I see one issue and one that doesn't have an issue with the clear coating.

How about the others out there? Maybe I missed other posts that had this info? To me that is the place to start....with the facts.

#72 10 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

The playfield on my WOZ still looked like new after nearly 400 plays... No signs of wear that I could find.

Look again and look closely. I put a flashlight on mine and sure enough it's all chipped up. Mine was built 11/18/13 and I only have about 250 plays.

Now it's not really a big deal for me but it's there. I also checked the VUK hole that goes to the castle playfield on the left and it's really bad! It's all cracked up and about to fall away. The cracks are about a half inch long. There is a good size chunk (about the size of a quarter) about to flake off. Get your protectors on now. It's too late for me.

#73 10 years ago

I wonder how reclearing the pf would work with all these new types of switches on the pf.

#74 10 years ago

It's hard to get a picture but here is my damage to the castle VUK hole. Don't think a protector could have saved this.

IMG_3297.jpgIMG_3297.jpg

#75 10 years ago

I have some weird wear at the state fair stand ups. I'll take a picture tomorrow but it almost looks like its wearing right through the silkscreen.

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#76 10 years ago
Quoted from PappyBoyington:

It's hard to get a picture but here is my damage to the castle VUK hole. Don't think a protector could have saved this.

IMG_3297.jpg 163 KB

Wow, that is some real wear for 250 plays!

#77 10 years ago

Mine looks new, roughly 300 plays, built 11/23/13, full set of Cliffy's on before the first game was started....

#78 10 years ago

I bought a WOZ playfield at a show.

I guess I could put a serious clear coat on it, but I worry the $200 playfields were seconds of some sort?

Anybody know?

#79 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I bought a WOZ playfield at a show.
I guess I could put a serious clear coat on it, but I worry the $200 playfields were seconds of some sort?
Anybody know?

I have one as well. They were being sold as seconds,but never really got any answer as to why or what part was the problem.

#80 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I bought a WOZ playfield at a show.
I guess I could put a serious clear coat on it, but I worry the $200 playfields were seconds of some sort?
Anybody know?

I don't know which one you purchased but JJP definitely sold seconds designated as "wall art"".

#81 10 years ago
Quoted from JIM_Z:

I have one as well. They were being sold as seconds,but never really got any answer as to why or what part was the problem.

If the difference was minor, I could clear the one I have, then sell it so someone who would send me theirs, that would get cleared for the next person....

Downtime would be minimized because the replacement playfield would be completely cured and polished to a mirror.

#82 10 years ago
Quoted from toro1966:

Mine looks new, roughly 300 plays, built 11/23/13, full set of Cliffy's on before the first game was started....

What about your Castle VUK hole? I can't see how a protector can stop that?

#83 10 years ago
Quoted from PappyBoyington:

It's hard to get a picture but here is my damage to the castle VUK hole. Don't think a protector could have saved this.

IMG_3297.jpg 163 KB

That is a surprise.

#84 10 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

Steel ball bearing Vs Clear coat.
I will bet on the ball every-time.

Steel ball bearing also wins at rock-paper-sccisors.

#85 10 years ago

To me it looks like the clear coat is not bonding with the playfield surface very well. If thats the case, you could have the clear coat popping off the playfield over the entire surface eventually. Its obvious since as you can see once you have an edge crack, you then start to lose larger flakes of clear coat. Could be bad prep work, could be the wood itself might not have been entirely cured, clear not mixed properly..etc. Either way , for people defending this type of wear over such a short period of time are dead wrong, there is no way you should have this type of wear over 250 game or even 1500-2000 games. Ive put 250 games on a machine before in probably 4 days.

#86 10 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

Steel ball bearing also wins at rock-paper-sccisors.

Wins best in Claymore's.....

#87 10 years ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

Its obvious since as you can see once you have an edge crack, you then start to lose larger flakes of clear coat.

You mean like this?
WOZ_ClearChip.jpgWOZ_ClearChip.jpg

As a follow up, I checked my audits again. I had 573 recorded hits to the Throne Room since the most recent update. Before that I had maybe 25-30 games that has audits wiped since I got my game right around the time 1.24 was released. I went poking around the other holes in my game to see how they were looking:

WOZ_CrystalVUK.jpgWOZ_CrystalVUK.jpg
Crystal Ball VUK is showing the same wear as the Throne Room VUK. Again, nothing a Cliffy could help with.

WOZ_CastleVUK.jpgWOZ_CastleVUK.jpg
Castle VUK

Then I saw the drop target hole, and had to take a photo of it. No wear, but some globs of "clear":
WOZ_DropTarget.jpgWOZ_DropTarget.jpg

#88 10 years ago

Castle VUK looks pretty good. I wish mine was that nice

#89 10 years ago
Quoted from PappyBoyington:

Castle VUK looks pretty good.

For now of course. I can already see the clear splitting very similar to how yours did, which the photo doesn't show very well. Going to come off in big chunks.

#90 10 years ago
Quoted from iepinball:

For now of course. I can already see the clear splitting very similar to how yours did, which the photo doesn't show very well. Going to come off in big chunks.

Probably and I can't think of anything we can do to stop the spread. This could end up being very nasty.

#91 10 years ago
Quoted from iepinball:

You mean like this?

As a follow up, I checked my audits again. I had 573 recorded hits to the Throne Room since the most recent update. Before that I had maybe 25-30 games that has audits wiped since I got my game right around the time 1.24 was released. I went poking around the other holes in my game to see how they were looking:

Crystal Ball VUK is showing the same wear as the Throne Room VUK. Again, nothing a Cliffy could help with.

Castle VUK
Then I saw the drop target hole, and had to take a photo of it. No wear, but some globs of "clear":

WOZ_CrystalVUK.jpg 97 KB

WOZ_CastleVUK.jpg 115 KB

WOZ_ClearChip.jpg 175 KB

WOZ_DropTarget.jpg 235 KB

The clear around the drop target looks really uneven and globed on which is amazing if the PF was flat when sprayed. I don't know how you could get it that uneven if you tried.

Thick clear looks awesome but it also cracks and chips faster than a thinner coat IMHO.

#92 10 years ago

The reason it is chipping is not because its layed thick. For instance my EATPM was sprayed mad thick, probably equivelent to 4-5 coats. The game has probably around 1000 games on it and there is no sign of wear in any area of the playfield and there are no playfield protectors anywhere on the playfield. The machine was sprayed with a qualty clear coat by someone who knows what they are doing.

#93 10 years ago

The latest batch of pics is pretty telling of what might be going on, clear pooled heavily around the edges of holes. If something catches and edge like that if it isn't adhered to the hole itself well its just going to break off and possibly take some art with it. Seems like they should have done a little cleaning up of the holes before polishing and assembly.

#94 10 years ago

Usually the clear coat avoids building up around holes (creating a funnel around them), so that drop target pic with the globs is very interesting

I'd be very curious to see the process that created those globs.

#95 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Usually the clear coat avoids building up around holes (creating a funnel around them), so that drop target pic with the globs is very interesting
I'd be very curious to see the process that created those globs.

I was thinking the same thing based on reading your playfield restoration guide. I do sometimes get a little overhang around holes that I take care of with a file or sharp countersink.

#96 10 years ago

Here is the wear at the state fair stand up targets, and no the targets aren't rubbing. There's at least a credit card thickness between the playfield and the target.

image-446.jpgimage-446.jpgimage-339.jpgimage-339.jpgimage-659.jpgimage-659.jpgimage-324.jpgimage-324.jpg

#97 10 years ago

That looks more like a printing error or physical scratch than a repetitive wear problem.

#98 10 years ago

No. See all the white powder on the text? That's my screen printing rubbed off. Plus, I would have seen it when I cleaned the area to put the target decals on.

#100 10 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Here is the wear at the state fair stand up targets, and no the targets aren't rubbing. There's at least a credit card thickness between the playfield and the target.

image-324.jpg 202 KB

image-339.jpg 164 KB

image-659.jpg 190 KB

image-446.jpg 200 KB

That looks like normal wear, because the clear tends to be thinner around holes and cutouts.

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