(Topic ID: 271935)

Woz stuck in attract mode


By RTS

13 days ago



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  • 36 posts
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  • Latest reply 2 days ago by RTS
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    #1 13 days ago

    Game has been idle for a couple of months while waiting for a new crystal ball display. Game worked when last shut down.

    Just turned on the game. Appeared to boot up normally and go into attract mode. New crystal ball display didn't light up, but all playfield lights look normal and lcd monitor in the head cycles normally for game over attract mode.

    The start button light is out and and pushing it will not start a game. The diagnostic buttons inside the door don't work either. Game is stuck in attract mode. Rebooted a couple of times to no avail.

    Is this some fuse issue? I checked under the hood and I see nothing out of place. Led's at all fuses are lit. All connectors are attached.

    What might be the culprit here?

    #2 13 days ago

    Looking at mine, there appears to be a molex connector joining the start, coin door, and test button wires with another connector. Did it come loose? Even if not, try reseating it.

    EDIT: It doesn’t appear the start button goes through the same connector, but I would still try reseating all related connectors in that area. I haven’t looked at the matrix, but it could be they share a common row or column.

    #3 13 days ago

    Maybe a ground wire somewhere came off on that line leading to those buttons when installing the new crystal ball . Is the plug on the new display plugged in ok . I’ve missed 1 pin before and maybe that is the reason the other switches are not working. I could be completely off though.

    #4 13 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Game has been idle for a couple of months while waiting for a new crystal ball display. Game worked when last shut down.
    Just turned on the game. Appeared to boot up normally and go into attract mode. New crystal ball display didn't light up, but all playfield lights look normal and lcd monitor in the head cycles normally for game over attract mode.
    The start button light is out and and pushing it will not start a game. The diagnostic buttons inside the door don't work either. Game is stuck in attract mode. Rebooted a couple of times to no avail.
    Is this some fuse issue? I checked under the hood and I see nothing out of place. Led's at all fuses are lit. All connectors are attached.
    What might be the culprit here?

    If you rest the playfield on the front of the machine (life and pull the playfield slightly forward and up) and close the coin door, can you start a game?

    #5 13 days ago

    I appreciate all thr responses.

    Quoted from Phatchit:

    Maybe a ground wire somewhere came off on that line leading to those buttons when installing the new crystal ball . Is the plug on the new display plugged in ok . I’ve missed 1 pin before and maybe that is the reason the other switches are not working. I could be completely off though.

    The game will work without the cb display. The display will only go one way. I think the cb display is unrelated. It wasn't working before but i could still start a game and get into diagnostics.

    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Looking at mine, there appears to be a molex connector joining the start, coin door, and test button wires with another connector. Did it come loose? Even if not, try reseating it.
    EDIT: It doesn’t appear the start button goes through the same connector, but I would still try reseating all related connectors in that area. I haven’t looked at the matrix, but it could be they share a common row or column.

    Rechecked all connectors and they're tight. The coin mech lights are illuminated so pretty sure power is there. I can test with a DMM.

    Quoted from vireland:

    If you rest the playfield on the front of the machine (life and pull the playfield slightly forward and up) and close the coin door, can you start a game?

    The answer is no. I saw you had a similar issue with v 5.05. I am running the latest software. I am slightly suspicious that the game is not completely booting before it shows attract mode. Not real sure.

    I recall Lloyd showing a way to short the cpu to boot the game. Not sure if that would be applicable here or if it would cause bigger problems.

    Apparently getting stuck in attract mode was a previous software issue that was fixed several versions ago.

    #6 13 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Apparently getting stuck in attract mode was a previous software issue that was fixed several versions ago.

    Re-check all USB connections (unplug and re-plug). There are some on the back of the motherboard and a couple on the power board right side towards the front of the case on the right.

    #7 13 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    I recall Lloyd showing a way to short the cpu to boot the game. Not sure if that would be applicable here or if it would cause bigger problems.

    I believe those instructions are only a few pages back from the last page in the WOZ thread.

    #8 13 days ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    Re-check all USB connections (unplug and re-plug). There are some on the back of the motherboard and a couple on the power board right side towards the front of the case on the right.

    I did. They were never removed so I don't really know how they could be loose. Game just won't cooperate.

    I thought to check behind the backglass for no useful reason but that damn thing is wedged shut.

    Sometimes this game can really suck. I'll be calling JJP tomorrow but their help desk hasn't been as good since Frank left.

    #9 13 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    I did. They were never removed so I don't really know how they could be loose. Game just won't cooperate.
    I thought to check behind the backglass for no useful reason but that damn thing is wedged shut.
    Sometimes this game can really suck. I'll be calling JJP tomorrow but their help desk hasn't been as good since Frank left.

    You could try doing a full update again since that happens automatically at boot and should bypass whatever issue this is. That way if it's some kind of corruption of files, it should be fixed and you're back in business today.

    And yes, losing Frank was a major loss for JJP. He was GREAT in tech support. Loved that guy. They've lost two greats (Frank and Butch) and picked up one (Barry).

    #10 12 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    I recall Lloyd showing a way to short the cpu to boot the game. Not sure if that would be applicable here or if it would cause bigger problems.

    Doesn’t seem like it would be helpful in your case but here is the method.
    There is a header on your motherboard. In a normal computer this would have a power button and a reset button and a couple lights connected to it but not in a pinball machine.

    If the computer is on you can short the reset pin 7 to ground (5, 9, or 8 ) to reboot. If the computer is off you can momentarily short power pin 6 to ground (5 or 8 ) to turn it on.

    FE76FCEC-0996-4FDC-A269-A44D69D2BA7B (resized).jpeg

    #11 12 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Doesn’t seem like it would be helpful in your case but here is the method.
    There is a header on your motherboard. In a normal computer this would have a power button and a reset button and a couple lights connected to it but not in a pinball machine.
    If the computer is on you can short the reset pin 7 to ground 5 to reboot. If the computer is off you can momentarily short power pin 6 to ground 5 to turn it on.
    [quoted image]

    The 2013 WOZ here had a reset button already wired to this.

    But I agree I doubt this will help, especially if he has attract mode running since that means the motherboard booted.

    #12 12 days ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    You could try doing a full update again since that happens automatically at boot and should bypass whatever issue this is. That way if it's some kind of corruption of files, it should be fixed and you're back in business today.
    And yes, losing Frank was a major loss for JJP. He was GREAT in tech support. Loved that guy. They've lost two greats (Frank and Butch) and picked up one (Barry).

    I'll give a full update a try.

    #13 12 days ago

    Just a follow up. It wasn't able to reinstall the current code. JJP Support said it wouldn't update to the current code if the current code was already installed, so nothing happened there.

    JJP took me through the same old troubleshooting of unplugging and replugging connectors until nothing changed and the case was escalated.

    #14 12 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Just a follow up. It wasn't able to reinstall the current code. JJP Support said it wouldn't update to the current code if the current code was already installed, so nothing happened there.

    If you put a new SSD in there, then do a full install.

    That would help you sort out if the SSD is the issue, or the motherboard locked up.

    LTG : )

    #15 12 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Just a follow up. It wasn't able to reinstall the current code. JJP Support said it wouldn't update to the current code if the current code was already installed, so nothing happened there.
    JJP took me through the same old troubleshooting of unplugging and replugging connectors until nothing changed and the case was escalated.

    Pretty sure you can do a full install on older code, then bring it forward to the newest with a full install. I definitely downgraded when WoZ was having problems locking up on the 6.xx code with older machines, so I know it can be done.

    It'll take twice as long to do this, but it should give you a path forward.

    If you don't have an image and can't download an old full version, I have 6.06 and 7.01 ISOs that are older than current that should allow you to go back then come forward. Let me know if you need them.

    #16 12 days ago

    If you just want to see if the motherboard is working you can set it to boot from USB and run a Linux distribution from a thumb drive.

    #17 12 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    If you just want to see if the motherboard is working you can set it to boot from USB and run a Linux distribution from a thumb drive.

    If it's running the attract mode, the motherboard is working. Maybe not fully working on all ports, but working. That's more information than booting a linux distribution would tell you.

    #18 11 days ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    If you put a new SSD in there, then do a full install.
    That would help you sort out if the SSD is the issue, or the motherboard locked up.
    LTG : )

    JJP Support said it wouldn't boot. And it didn't.

    But the reason could be due to some other problem. I can't use any diagnostic buttons to navigate on the screen if it did boot.

    I am still working with JJP support. We found a 1 amp fuse that was bad and I'm trying to find a replacement. I hope that's the issue.

    20200629_213138 (resized).jpg
    #19 11 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    I'm trying to find a replacement.

    Automotive fuse. Hopefully you can source one local.

    LTG : )

    #20 11 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    JJP Support said it wouldn't boot. And it didn't.
    But the reason could be due to some other problem. I can't use any diagnostic buttons to navigate on the screen if it did boot.
    I am still working with JJP support. We found a 1 amp fuse that was bad and I'm trying to find a replacement. I hope that's the issue. [quoted image]

    This SAYS it's the right kind, but that fuse is kind of...ornate.

    amazon.com link »

    #21 11 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    We found a 1 amp fuse that was bad

    When you work with JJP, run this by them. If that fuse is F1 or F2 on the I/O board. Is so, it should be a 2 amp 32 volt fuse. On pages D-169 and D-170 in the manual that you can download.

    F1 is 12V for matrixed switches F2 is 5V for I/O board logic.

    I didn't see a 1 amp blade fuse on those pages.

    LTG : )

    #22 11 days ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    When you work with JJP, run this by them. If that fuse is F1 or F2 on the I/O board. Is so, it should be a 2 amp 32 volt fuse. On pages D-169 and D-170 in the manual that you can download.
    F1 is 12V for matrixed switches F2 is 5V for I/O board logic.
    I didn't see a 1 amp blade fuse on those pages.
    LTG : )

    Good eye Lloyd. It's F1

    It is a 1 amp but they specifically said to bump it to 2 amp when I replace it. This is an early model ECLE.

    #23 11 days ago

    So the 2 amp fuse did not solve the problem. Further diagnostics found voltage levels too low on the I/O board, and too high on the sound board. Awaiting further instructions on how to proceed from JJP.

    #24 11 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    So the 2 amp fuse did not solve the problem. Further diagnostics found voltage levels too low on the I/O board, and too high on the sound board. Awaiting further instructions on how to proceed from JJP.

    Wow, this is a crazy one. Sounds like maybe a bad power supply.

    #25 10 days ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    Wow, this is a crazy one. Sounds like maybe a bad power supply.

    This game has had one thing or another keeping it on hold since January. New playfield, new 2.0 light boards. New crystal ball display. And possibly new circuit boards.

    The cabinet is still original however.

    #26 10 days ago

    I'm not making much progress with JJP support.

    The help desk doesn't know what to do and is waiting for answers from other engineers at the company. No timetable.

    This department is definitely struggling. The primary troubleshooting advice has been to check all connectors. Then check voltage. After that, we hit a dead end.

    #27 10 days ago

    Sorry did you do a full playfield swap then start having more problems?

    Lots can get shaken out over time after such a big project....

    #28 10 days ago
    Quoted from BC_Gambit:

    Sorry did you do a full playfield swap then start having more problems?
    Lots can get shaken out over time after such a big project....

    Playfield swap was years ago. Worked very well afterwards.

    2.0 lighting upgrade was just a few months ago but had no problems booting or playing games after the upgrade. The playfield inserts all work perfectly now still. Game looks like a normal game in attract mode.

    The one difference when i boot up the game is it never does the device test showing the witch and monkey before it settles into the game over / attract mode.

    #29 10 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Playfield swap was years ago. Worked very well afterwards.
    2.0 lighting upgrade was just a few months ago but had no problems booting or playing games after the upgrade. The playfield inserts all work perfectly now still. Game looks like a normal game in attract mode.
    The one difference when i boot up the game is it never does the device test showing the witch and monkey before it settles into the game over / attract mode.

    I'd swap in a different computer ATX power supply and see if that fixes it. Easy swap, and you're back in business if it works. The atx power supplies in these 2013 WoZ units are pretty cheapo ones. Seven years is probably past its life expectancy.

    #30 10 days ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    I'd swap in a different computer ATX power supply and see if that fixes it. Easy swap, and you're back in business if it works. The atx power supplies in these 2013 WoZ units are pretty cheapo ones. Seven years is probably past its life expectancy.

    Can't i just test the voltage output? The game had spent 95% of its life turned off.

    #31 10 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Can't i just test the voltage output? The game had spent 95% of its life

    Sure. Check it on the motherboard connector (there are a number of 3.3, 5, and 12, both plus and minus) and also the 5v output connectors with the molex connectors on them that would ordinarily go to drives in a computer.

    #32 9 days ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Game looks like a normal game in attract mode.

    Quoted from vireland:

    I'd swap in a different computer ATX power supply

    I can’t think of a failure in the power supply that would have the game running fine in attract mode.

    #33 9 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    I can’t think of a failure in the power supply that would have the game running fine in attract mode.

    F1 is 12V for matrixed switches

    If that 12v is too low the switches don't work, which seems to be the problem he is having. So if that 12v output from the ATX supply failed or is failing that would result in the issue he's seeing because the machine will be blind to any switches.

    #34 9 days ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    F1 is 12V for matrixed switches

    12v likely runs the fan on the processor and we know that’s running or it would shut down within seconds after booting.

    A power supply tester would be cheaper than another power supply. Free if OP has a multi meter and can google the pin out.
    amazon.com link »

    #35 9 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    12v likely runs the fan on the processor and we know that’s running or it would shut down within seconds after booting.
    A power supply tester would be cheaper than another power supply. Free if OP has a multi meter and can google the pin out.
    amazon.com link »

    If it's undervoltage the fan spins slower. It maybe be on a middle ground where some 12v stuff appears to work and others refuse.

    1 week later
    #36 2 days ago

    Here is the latest on my machine.

    JJP has requested that I send in the I/O board for diagnostics and necessary repairs.

    I'll report back on the progress. I've been warned it could be another couple of weeks.

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