(Topic ID: 271935)

Woz stuck in attract mode

By RTS

1 year ago


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  • 57 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by PinMonk
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    There are 57 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 1 year ago

    Game has been idle for a couple of months while waiting for a new crystal ball display. Game worked when last shut down.

    Just turned on the game. Appeared to boot up normally and go into attract mode. New crystal ball display didn't light up, but all playfield lights look normal and lcd monitor in the head cycles normally for game over attract mode.

    The start button light is out and and pushing it will not start a game. The diagnostic buttons inside the door don't work either. Game is stuck in attract mode. Rebooted a couple of times to no avail.

    Is this some fuse issue? I checked under the hood and I see nothing out of place. Led's at all fuses are lit. All connectors are attached.

    What might be the culprit here?

    #2 1 year ago

    Looking at mine, there appears to be a molex connector joining the start, coin door, and test button wires with another connector. Did it come loose? Even if not, try reseating it.

    EDIT: It doesn’t appear the start button goes through the same connector, but I would still try reseating all related connectors in that area. I haven’t looked at the matrix, but it could be they share a common row or column.

    #3 1 year ago

    Maybe a ground wire somewhere came off on that line leading to those buttons when installing the new crystal ball . Is the plug on the new display plugged in ok . I’ve missed 1 pin before and maybe that is the reason the other switches are not working. I could be completely off though.

    #4 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Game has been idle for a couple of months while waiting for a new crystal ball display. Game worked when last shut down.
    Just turned on the game. Appeared to boot up normally and go into attract mode. New crystal ball display didn't light up, but all playfield lights look normal and lcd monitor in the head cycles normally for game over attract mode.
    The start button light is out and and pushing it will not start a game. The diagnostic buttons inside the door don't work either. Game is stuck in attract mode. Rebooted a couple of times to no avail.
    Is this some fuse issue? I checked under the hood and I see nothing out of place. Led's at all fuses are lit. All connectors are attached.
    What might be the culprit here?

    If you rest the playfield on the front of the machine (life and pull the playfield slightly forward and up) and close the coin door, can you start a game?

    #5 1 year ago

    I appreciate all thr responses.

    Quoted from Phatchit:

    Maybe a ground wire somewhere came off on that line leading to those buttons when installing the new crystal ball . Is the plug on the new display plugged in ok . I’ve missed 1 pin before and maybe that is the reason the other switches are not working. I could be completely off though.

    The game will work without the cb display. The display will only go one way. I think the cb display is unrelated. It wasn't working before but i could still start a game and get into diagnostics.

    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Looking at mine, there appears to be a molex connector joining the start, coin door, and test button wires with another connector. Did it come loose? Even if not, try reseating it.
    EDIT: It doesn’t appear the start button goes through the same connector, but I would still try reseating all related connectors in that area. I haven’t looked at the matrix, but it could be they share a common row or column.

    Rechecked all connectors and they're tight. The coin mech lights are illuminated so pretty sure power is there. I can test with a DMM.

    Quoted from PinMonk:

    If you rest the playfield on the front of the machine (life and pull the playfield slightly forward and up) and close the coin door, can you start a game?

    The answer is no. I saw you had a similar issue with v 5.05. I am running the latest software. I am slightly suspicious that the game is not completely booting before it shows attract mode. Not real sure.

    I recall Lloyd showing a way to short the cpu to boot the game. Not sure if that would be applicable here or if it would cause bigger problems.

    Apparently getting stuck in attract mode was a previous software issue that was fixed several versions ago.

    #6 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Apparently getting stuck in attract mode was a previous software issue that was fixed several versions ago.

    Re-check all USB connections (unplug and re-plug). There are some on the back of the motherboard and a couple on the power board right side towards the front of the case on the right.

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    I recall Lloyd showing a way to short the cpu to boot the game. Not sure if that would be applicable here or if it would cause bigger problems.

    I believe those instructions are only a few pages back from the last page in the WOZ thread.

    #8 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    Re-check all USB connections (unplug and re-plug). There are some on the back of the motherboard and a couple on the power board right side towards the front of the case on the right.

    I did. They were never removed so I don't really know how they could be loose. Game just won't cooperate.

    I thought to check behind the backglass for no useful reason but that damn thing is wedged shut.

    Sometimes this game can really suck. I'll be calling JJP tomorrow but their help desk hasn't been as good since Frank left.

    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    I did. They were never removed so I don't really know how they could be loose. Game just won't cooperate.
    I thought to check behind the backglass for no useful reason but that damn thing is wedged shut.
    Sometimes this game can really suck. I'll be calling JJP tomorrow but their help desk hasn't been as good since Frank left.

    You could try doing a full update again since that happens automatically at boot and should bypass whatever issue this is. That way if it's some kind of corruption of files, it should be fixed and you're back in business today.

    And yes, losing Frank was a major loss for JJP. He was GREAT in tech support. Loved that guy. They've lost two greats (Frank and Butch) and picked up one (Barry).

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    I recall Lloyd showing a way to short the cpu to boot the game. Not sure if that would be applicable here or if it would cause bigger problems.

    Doesn’t seem like it would be helpful in your case but here is the method.
    There is a header on your motherboard. In a normal computer this would have a power button and a reset button and a couple lights connected to it but not in a pinball machine.

    If the computer is on you can short the reset pin 7 to ground (5, 9, or 8 ) to reboot. If the computer is off you can momentarily short power pin 6 to ground (5 or 8 ) to turn it on.

    FE76FCEC-0996-4FDC-A269-A44D69D2BA7B (resized).jpeg

    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Doesn’t seem like it would be helpful in your case but here is the method.
    There is a header on your motherboard. In a normal computer this would have a power button and a reset button and a couple lights connected to it but not in a pinball machine.
    If the computer is on you can short the reset pin 7 to ground 5 to reboot. If the computer is off you can momentarily short power pin 6 to ground 5 to turn it on.
    [quoted image]

    The 2013 WOZ here had a reset button already wired to this.

    But I agree I doubt this will help, especially if he has attract mode running since that means the motherboard booted.

    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    You could try doing a full update again since that happens automatically at boot and should bypass whatever issue this is. That way if it's some kind of corruption of files, it should be fixed and you're back in business today.
    And yes, losing Frank was a major loss for JJP. He was GREAT in tech support. Loved that guy. They've lost two greats (Frank and Butch) and picked up one (Barry).

    I'll give a full update a try.

    #13 1 year ago

    Just a follow up. It wasn't able to reinstall the current code. JJP Support said it wouldn't update to the current code if the current code was already installed, so nothing happened there.

    JJP took me through the same old troubleshooting of unplugging and replugging connectors until nothing changed and the case was escalated.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Just a follow up. It wasn't able to reinstall the current code. JJP Support said it wouldn't update to the current code if the current code was already installed, so nothing happened there.

    If you put a new SSD in there, then do a full install.

    That would help you sort out if the SSD is the issue, or the motherboard locked up.

    LTG : )

    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Just a follow up. It wasn't able to reinstall the current code. JJP Support said it wouldn't update to the current code if the current code was already installed, so nothing happened there.
    JJP took me through the same old troubleshooting of unplugging and replugging connectors until nothing changed and the case was escalated.

    Pretty sure you can do a full install on older code, then bring it forward to the newest with a full install. I definitely downgraded when WoZ was having problems locking up on the 6.xx code with older machines, so I know it can be done.

    It'll take twice as long to do this, but it should give you a path forward.

    If you don't have an image and can't download an old full version, I have 6.06 and 7.01 ISOs that are older than current that should allow you to go back then come forward. Let me know if you need them.

    #16 1 year ago

    If you just want to see if the motherboard is working you can set it to boot from USB and run a Linux distribution from a thumb drive.

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    If you just want to see if the motherboard is working you can set it to boot from USB and run a Linux distribution from a thumb drive.

    If it's running the attract mode, the motherboard is working. Maybe not fully working on all ports, but working. That's more information than booting a linux distribution would tell you.

    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    If you put a new SSD in there, then do a full install.
    That would help you sort out if the SSD is the issue, or the motherboard locked up.
    LTG : )

    JJP Support said it wouldn't boot. And it didn't.

    But the reason could be due to some other problem. I can't use any diagnostic buttons to navigate on the screen if it did boot.

    I am still working with JJP support. We found a 1 amp fuse that was bad and I'm trying to find a replacement. I hope that's the issue.

    20200629_213138 (resized).jpg
    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    I'm trying to find a replacement.

    Automotive fuse. Hopefully you can source one local.

    LTG : )

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    JJP Support said it wouldn't boot. And it didn't.
    But the reason could be due to some other problem. I can't use any diagnostic buttons to navigate on the screen if it did boot.
    I am still working with JJP support. We found a 1 amp fuse that was bad and I'm trying to find a replacement. I hope that's the issue. [quoted image]

    This SAYS it's the right kind, but that fuse is kind of...ornate.

    amazon.com link »

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    We found a 1 amp fuse that was bad

    When you work with JJP, run this by them. If that fuse is F1 or F2 on the I/O board. Is so, it should be a 2 amp 32 volt fuse. On pages D-169 and D-170 in the manual that you can download.

    F1 is 12V for matrixed switches F2 is 5V for I/O board logic.

    I didn't see a 1 amp blade fuse on those pages.

    LTG : )

    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    When you work with JJP, run this by them. If that fuse is F1 or F2 on the I/O board. Is so, it should be a 2 amp 32 volt fuse. On pages D-169 and D-170 in the manual that you can download.
    F1 is 12V for matrixed switches F2 is 5V for I/O board logic.
    I didn't see a 1 amp blade fuse on those pages.
    LTG : )

    Good eye Lloyd. It's F1

    It is a 1 amp but they specifically said to bump it to 2 amp when I replace it. This is an early model ECLE.

    #23 1 year ago

    So the 2 amp fuse did not solve the problem. Further diagnostics found voltage levels too low on the I/O board, and too high on the sound board. Awaiting further instructions on how to proceed from JJP.

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    So the 2 amp fuse did not solve the problem. Further diagnostics found voltage levels too low on the I/O board, and too high on the sound board. Awaiting further instructions on how to proceed from JJP.

    Wow, this is a crazy one. Sounds like maybe a bad power supply.

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    Wow, this is a crazy one. Sounds like maybe a bad power supply.

    This game has had one thing or another keeping it on hold since January. New playfield, new 2.0 light boards. New crystal ball display. And possibly new circuit boards.

    The cabinet is still original however.

    #26 1 year ago

    I'm not making much progress with JJP support.

    The help desk doesn't know what to do and is waiting for answers from other engineers at the company. No timetable.

    This department is definitely struggling. The primary troubleshooting advice has been to check all connectors. Then check voltage. After that, we hit a dead end.

    #27 1 year ago

    Sorry did you do a full playfield swap then start having more problems?

    Lots can get shaken out over time after such a big project....

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from BC_Gambit:

    Sorry did you do a full playfield swap then start having more problems?
    Lots can get shaken out over time after such a big project....

    Playfield swap was years ago. Worked very well afterwards.

    2.0 lighting upgrade was just a few months ago but had no problems booting or playing games after the upgrade. The playfield inserts all work perfectly now still. Game looks like a normal game in attract mode.

    The one difference when i boot up the game is it never does the device test showing the witch and monkey before it settles into the game over / attract mode.

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Playfield swap was years ago. Worked very well afterwards.
    2.0 lighting upgrade was just a few months ago but had no problems booting or playing games after the upgrade. The playfield inserts all work perfectly now still. Game looks like a normal game in attract mode.
    The one difference when i boot up the game is it never does the device test showing the witch and monkey before it settles into the game over / attract mode.

    I'd swap in a different computer ATX power supply and see if that fixes it. Easy swap, and you're back in business if it works. The atx power supplies in these 2013 WoZ units are pretty cheapo ones. Seven years is probably past its life expectancy.

    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    I'd swap in a different computer ATX power supply and see if that fixes it. Easy swap, and you're back in business if it works. The atx power supplies in these 2013 WoZ units are pretty cheapo ones. Seven years is probably past its life expectancy.

    Can't i just test the voltage output? The game had spent 95% of its life turned off.

    #31 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Can't i just test the voltage output? The game had spent 95% of its life

    Sure. Check it on the motherboard connector (there are a number of 3.3, 5, and 12, both plus and minus) and also the 5v output connectors with the molex connectors on them that would ordinarily go to drives in a computer.

    #32 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    Game looks like a normal game in attract mode.

    Quoted from PinMonk:

    I'd swap in a different computer ATX power supply

    I can’t think of a failure in the power supply that would have the game running fine in attract mode.

    #33 1 year ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    I can’t think of a failure in the power supply that would have the game running fine in attract mode.

    F1 is 12V for matrixed switches

    If that 12v is too low the switches don't work, which seems to be the problem he is having. So if that 12v output from the ATX supply failed or is failing that would result in the issue he's seeing because the machine will be blind to any switches.

    #34 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    F1 is 12V for matrixed switches

    12v likely runs the fan on the processor and we know that’s running or it would shut down within seconds after booting.

    A power supply tester would be cheaper than another power supply. Free if OP has a multi meter and can google the pin out.
    amazon.com link »

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    12v likely runs the fan on the processor and we know that’s running or it would shut down within seconds after booting.
    A power supply tester would be cheaper than another power supply. Free if OP has a multi meter and can google the pin out.
    amazon.com link »

    If it's undervoltage the fan spins slower. It maybe be on a middle ground where some 12v stuff appears to work and others refuse.

    1 week later
    #36 1 year ago

    Here is the latest on my machine.

    JJP has requested that I send in the I/O board for diagnostics and necessary repairs.

    I'll report back on the progress. I've been warned it could be another couple of weeks.

    1 month later
    #37 1 year ago

    RTS any update on your issue? I have exactly the same issue. It has sat idle until today and now it is doing the exact same thing as yours.

    #38 1 year ago
    Quoted from crashnt20:

    rts any update on your issue? I have exactly the same issue. It has sat idle until today and now it is doing the exact same thing as yours.

    I have been dealing with JJP over this issue for way too long.

    After futile troubleshooting over the phone, JJP requested that I send in my I/O board. They've had it over a month, and I was just told last week that they never tested my board, but sent me a new board which I have not received yet.

    There's no guaranty the new board will resolve the problem since they never confirmed anything specific had failed on my board.

    So, the short answer is, I'm still working with JJP and waiting to get my game working again.

    #39 1 year ago

    The replacement board arrived. JJP said my original I/O board was fine (nothing tested out of ther ordinary.)

    So I called and got the okay to plug in the replacement board and when I turned on the power, instant burning smell and the cabinet filled with smoke. I feel the troubleshooting is haphazard and random. No true progress.

    It's worse than before. Fuck this game. The technical support has been less than stellar. 6 weeks waiting for the replacement board was a complete time waste.

    #40 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    It's worse than before.

    It may not help. I am truly sorry the way this has gone.

    Maybe give Jack a call ?

    LTG : )

    #41 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    The replacement board arrived. JJP said my original I/O board was fine (nothing tested out of ther ordinary.)
    So I called and got the okay to plug in the replacement board and when I turned on the power, instant burning smell and the cabinet filled with smoke. I feel the troubleshooting is haphazard and random. No true progress.
    It's worse than before. Fuck this game. The technical support has been less than stellar. 6 weeks waiting for the replacement board was a complete time waste.

    Losing Frank for support was really bad.

    #42 1 year ago

    Sorry to hear about your woes. Now that something smoked, check all the boards over for a burnt chip. If you pinpoint the problem, that may help remedy it.

    #43 1 year ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    It may not help. I am truly sorry the way this has gone.
    Maybe give Jack a call ?
    LTG : )

    I've thought about calling Jack, but Jim in tech support is still trying to work through it with me. It's just taken way too long and it feels like there's been no progress. I'm losing confidence.

    Quoted from PinMonk:

    Losing Frank for support was really bad.

    Totally agree. Frank was awesome. Troubleshooting was always organized and methodical.

    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Sorry to hear about your woes. Now that something smoked, check all the boards over for a burnt chip. If you pinpoint the problem, that may help remedy it.

    I'll confirm with Jim at JJP tomorrow. Maybe it'll help locate the problem. My old board didn't fail like this and I suspect the damage is on this replacement I/O board.

    This replacement board was someone else's refurbished board; it wasn't a new board. .

    #44 1 year ago
    Quoted from RTS:

    I'll confirm with Jim at JJP tomorrow. Maybe it'll help locate the problem. My old board didn't fail like this and I suspect the damage is on this replacement I/O board.
    This replacement board was someone else's refurbished board; it wasn't a new board. .

    I mention it because I had a chip fry on my I/O board, and Butch was able to look at the traces and determine that a surge hit it and exactly where the surge came from. Of course, Butch isn’t there anymore, but it may help someone determine the cause.

    #45 1 year ago

    Just got off a call with JJP. The new thinking is that my hard drive is bad.

    I will be sending my original hard drive and purchasing a replacement. I will also be sending in the replacement I/O board that fried immediately after powering on the game and hopefully get back my original working I/O board.

    It will be a bit longer to see if replacing these items will get the game working again.

    #46 1 year ago

    Definitely sounds frustrating. I am curious to see what eventually fixes the issue.

    Good luck.

    1 month later
    #47 11 months ago

    Here's the 3 month update on my Woz.

    Game is still dead, but I've got Barry working with me now and I'm feeling more confident it will get fixed

    Apparently there was a recent staff change in tech support.

    #48 11 months ago

    Barry was the BEST at AP. Him being hired by JJP was a great move for them and took a little of the sting out of JJP losing Frank. You're in good hands.

    #49 11 months ago

    I am excited that yours is getting fixed and its good to hear that they had a staff change at JJP. I have been emailing and calling them for the past month and have not received a call back or email back from them. What do they think is the final problem?

    #50 11 months ago
    Quoted from crashnt20:

    I am excited that yours is getting fixed and its good to hear that they had a staff change at JJP. I have been emailing and calling them for the past month and have not received a call back or email back from them. What do they think is the final problem?

    Honestly, I'm basically starting all over.

    I received my original I/O board back after it was determined there was nothing wrong with it. I got a new hard drive, but I'm working with Barry now and he wants to get back to my original starting point.

    I will report back next week after we check everything again. He suggested it could be something as simple as a bad connector. This whole thing has been the worst troubleshooting experience since I've been in this hobby. But Im still positive the game will get fixed.

    There are 57 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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