(Topic ID: 47290)

WOZ Review from a Dark Knight........

By thedarkknight77

11 years ago


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  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by TheLaw
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#1 11 years ago

So my buddy Rascal and I finally made it up to Pinball Wizard to give the game that I have been bashing for 2 years a try............WOZ. So just to throw it all out there, let me start by saying Jack has made several mistakes along the way, all of them forgivable, except his first and biggest one.............betraying the pinball base by choosing WOZ as a theme for his FIRST game. The majority of pinball players are men and no one can deny that this was 100% ignored by Jack. Ignoring your customer base when you are starting a new company is foolish/pompas to say the least. That being said, let's get one thing straight, pinball does not need saving, pinball is alive and well. If anyone deserves credit for saving pinball it's the Stern team. Now that I got that out of the way..................On to the game. I played the game 15 times and watched 10 games by other people.

Appearance (Art/Lighting): The game is simple beautiful. The RGB LEDs and vast number of inserts make this machine look like Christmas. The play field and cabinet art work are amazing and both are a flawless execution of the theme. Those damn trees on the haunted forest pop bumpers are awesome, nice job Matt! I could go on and on, but all you need to know is that this game could very well be the most beautiful pin ever made................Even beating TOTAN, CV and TOM............Alright maybe it does not beat them, how about a tie. Overall Rating: 9.5, would have been a 10, but I had to take a half a point away off for those awful ruby red slipper flipper.

Sound: The stereo sound is impressive and because the speakers are at ear level, the sound projects right at you. There were a number of song changes throughout my longest 45,000 point game which was good to hear as I cannot stand, "We're off to see....Fk'ing shoot me." The call out kept to the theme, so there is not much to say. From a technical stand point the sound was a 10, but from a content rating, I give it a 7.5. As a person who listens to all types of music, I can tell you, you will never see WOZ music on my ipod nor do I ever want it on my $7000 pin. I don't care about technical sound quality, I would rather hear a homeless man playing Back in Black with a hair comb than listen to, "We're off to see the wizard." in perfect stereo.

Layout/Flow: The game is not original at all when it comes to layout/flow and if you can get past the theme, you will either hate this machine or love it based on flow alone. The layout to me is a TZ knock off, only worse. The mini playfields take up a ton of real estate and doesn't really contribute to the game. There are a few fun shots, but most are very long which can make the game seem slow. It's almost as though the team was so concerned with putting, "toys" in this game that they forgot what IM showed us, pinball doesn't need the BS to be great. My biggest concern is that this particular rating might get worse with the code up dates. Many of the magnets were not working and based on their location, I can see them having a negative impact on an already slow game. "Too much stop and go will kill the flow" and this game in it's current state already has enough. Overall rating: 7.0

Fun: Despite hating the theme and the fact that the games felt a little slow, I actually enjoyed playing all 15 games and it left me coming back for more. That being said, I am not sure I would be able to own it for long time as I like speed games. I think many people will buy it as a trophy pin, but it won't get as much play as the newer Sterns in the end. I can also see that Keith will be the "saving grace" for this pin. My guess is this will be his greatest programming masterpiece. The inserts alone make the rule possibilities endless, which will be a reason many will be drawn to it. Overall Rating: 8

Summary: To say that the JJP team created something special with WOZ is true, but to say the team created something better than what we had would be false. The JJP team has raised the bar on some elements in sound, system and lighting, but failed to truly innovate and pull these concepts together to create a revolutionary machine that raises the current standard. Although the LCD might offer something for the viewers, it really does nothing for the player. Pinball 2000's use of a LCD screen is creative, JJP's LCD back glass is not. In conclusion, despite theme, I give this game a solid 8.0, which leaves room for the rating to grow as the rules are not complete. At an 8.0, I feel I owe the JJP team an apology for all of the trash talk I have given them the last few years. This game is definitely something to consider when building a large collection and I look forward to seeing what they create with the Hobbit.

#2 11 years ago

OK the biggest question of all ...

How 'bout them FLIPPERS?!

#3 11 years ago

Fair rating. Just remember the code is missing some critical features that affect shots such as the magnet at the upper right flipper which catches the ball so a shot can be measured similar to the Venom shot in SM.
What you describe in your review reminds me of TZ. TZ is so unique that most pinheads that have a fairly big collection seem to have one that is not leaving. TZ is the ultimate pin to have to diversify a collection. WOZECLE hopefully will be my TZ.

I desire variety!

#4 11 years ago

Nice to see an honest review!

#5 11 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Just remember the code is missing some critical features that affect shots such as the magnet at the upper right flipper which catches the ball so a shot can be measured similar to the Venom shot in SM.

You lost me there. You have a Spider-Man and I have a Spider-Man. What am I missing here? "magnet at the upper right flipper which catches the ball so a shot can be measured similar to the Venom shot in SM." I don't understand that statement at all.

Are you saying that WOZ will eventually use a magnet that stops the ball above the upper right flipper...then it will hold the ball a bit and then release it so you can time your upper flipper shot better? If so....Roller Games would be a much better comparison....and I still don't see how a SM comparison fits in there.

To the OP. Nice review. I've played WOZ a few times. From what I have played (less play than you) I would agree with most of your points. Probably my biggest changes would be I care a bit less for the layout than you do and I have never cared for games with complex rules...so expecting it to be a super deep game says "overly complicated game that is a chore to understand" to me. When TZ and TSPP are games that something is getting compared to (which WOZ often does)...I'm pretty sure I'm not interested.

I prefer fast, easy to understand and most importantly, fun games. I don't really think WOZ will be known for any of these things. I know everyone enjoys different things so I'm sure it will be a great game for some people.

#6 11 years ago

Thank you for the ultra specific and well written review. Unfortunately, its tough to review the product at its current code level. But the analysis of the rest seems well though out.

#7 11 years ago

you have writing skills. i actually read the whole thing.
Interesting, fun and informative.
Thanks a lot

#8 11 years ago
Quoted from DugFreez:

You lost me there. You have a Spider-Man and I have a Spider-Man. What am I missing here? "magnet at the upper right flipper which catches the ball so a shot can be measured similar to the Venom shot in SM." I don't understand that statement at all.
Are you saying that WOZ will eventually use a magnet that stops the ball above the upper right flipper...then it will hold the ball a bit and then release it so you can time your upper flipper shot better? If so....Roller Games would be a much better comparison....and I still don't see how a SM comparison fits in there.

What I am saying is that you need the ball to be slowed up to have a reasonable chance to make the shot. I used SM as an example because most people know SM so they can understand how the magnet would do basically the same thing that the one-way gate does for the Venom shot. Also, with WOZ you don't know what you need to shoot yet because the code and inserts are not programmed enough. That all needs to be considered when evaluating WOZ gameplay in it's current state.

#9 11 years ago
Quoted from DugFreez:

I prefer fast, easy to understand and most importantly, fun games. I don't really think WOZ will be known for any of these things. I know everyone enjoys different things so I'm sure it will be a great game for some people.

Too bad your XMEN will probably never be easy to understand or flowing either.

#10 11 years ago

Good honest review. I don't totally agree with it, but you express your opinions very well.

#11 11 years ago

+1.. I think the review is spot on. With Keith doing the rules eventually it will be a game that will cater to a specific crowd that likes deep and complicated rules very well but others that prefer fast/fun/simple will dislike it and for those people it would be the novelty and collector in them that makes them buy.

I too love the execution of the layout more than the layout.

#12 11 years ago

I was with the OP. Don't have his writing skills but I'll say that agree with almost all of it.

Fun game... Will never own it. Just not my type of layout.

Congrats to Jack and team on their first release. Hope they continue to be successful.

#13 11 years ago

Sounds to me as though this pin will impress as originally hoped. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the theme may not thrill, but if the game looks as good as you say, it will likely be in many people's collections. With a nice deep ruleset, people shouldn't get bored of it any time soon.
Sounds as though there may be a few re-sales up front from people who were expecting something else but once it settles in, most may want to keep this indefinitely.
Time will tell. Can't wait for the Hobbit, especially based on this review of WOZ.
Thanks!

#14 11 years ago

I played the same game. I was very much looking forward to it but ultimately was very disappointed by it. Very Slow and boring w/ not much to do. This game has become (to me) the Pinball version of The Phantom Menace.

#15 11 years ago

If you like the theme or not, as stated, the artwork is just amazing. It is a beautiful pin to see in person.

#16 11 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

With a nice deep ruleset, people shouldn't get bored of it any time soon.Time will tell. Can't wait for the Hobbit,

To me it seems like there's a lot of contradictions:
A more feminine/girlie theme to "bring in new players"
but then
"flippers are fine, its just a ramp shot that will punish all but the perfect shot"

"a game that will appeal to a broader, nonpinhead clientele"
but then
"the deepest, most complex ruleset ever devised"

I know I'm oversimplifying a bit, but I see there being some mixed messaging going on.

BTW, I'm also MUCH more looking forward to the hobbit as I think its an easy win win:
a theme that appeals to more pinheads, and a game pinheads will appreciate.

#17 11 years ago

Excellent well-written review, thank you

#18 11 years ago

Thanks for the review, tdk! A very interesting read.

Quoted from damionrowe:

This game has become (to me) the Pinball version of The Phantom Menace ...

Isn't THIS the pinball version of The Phantom Menace?

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#19 11 years ago
Quoted from gearheaddropping:

Good honest review. I don't totally agree with it, but you express your opinions very well.

Same feeling exactly. Thanks thedarkknight77.

#20 11 years ago

Flippers have been fixed from what I experienced at Michigan pinball Expo. But that sound is piercing. The chimes and dings it does hurts the ears bad. Those high ends need to come down about 150%. or have an equalizer setting in the software, where the customer can adjust it themselves. But it's going down the road of BK right now, where the sound is terrible and you just want to turn it off, so you don't kick it down a flight of stairs.

I hate the theme and won't get one due to that alone. Hobbit I love, but won't be getting one, because of Jacks $1000 preorder price hike for no reason.

#21 11 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Flippers have been fixed from what I experienced at Michigan pinball Expo. But that sound is piercing.

Game I played at MPE the flippers were weak as shiz.
Agreed way too much high end, reminded me of LOTR....but worse.

#22 11 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

But that sound is piercing. The chimes and dings it does hurts the ears bad. Those high ends need to come down about 150%. or have an equalizer setting in the software, where the customer can adjust it themselves.

I agree with this. That "ding!" is so loud, clear and piercing that I involuntarily twitched every time it rang out over the loud, crowded MGC hallway.

#23 11 years ago

Well done review, as complete as possible at this stage. While most points are ultimately subjective, I don't think this comment is true:

"That being said, let's get one thing straight, pinball does not need saving, pinball is alive and well. If anyone deserves credit for saving pinball it's the Stern team."

I wholeheartedly agree that the Stern product over the last 2 years is vastly improved, both in terms of execution and theme, so that now customers are actually demanding product. And the return of Steve, Lyman, and George has no doubt played a significant role in that rebirth. But the priimary reason that these gentlemen are back is because of the competitive threat of JJP. In fact, there are now no fewer than 6 entities now claiming to be a pinball company. Moreover, we have also seen a growing # of pins on location.

Recall that only 3-4 years ago, Stern was putting up crap like BBH and the TRS and was literally on life support. So like or hate WOZ. I agree that it's not for everyone. But I absolutely give Jack credit for having the b***s to go into an industry that virtually everyone on the planet had chalked up to being dead.

#24 11 years ago

IM can also be put in that cheap feel and looking game. It's definitely part of the econo line. Especially the costco versions. That aspect is fine, for better quality, but is the quality enough to warrant a 200% price increase? I don't think so.

#25 11 years ago

Thanks for the comments, I tried my best, but clearly missed a few things. In total, I tried to use a 1-10 standard that aligns with the current rating I see on the top 100. WOZ falls in between 20-30 from my personal rating perspective. The issue becomes, would you pay $8000 for a NIB #25???? Most would not, most spend the big bucks hoping that NIB will be the next MM.

#26 11 years ago

Nice review, even if I don't agree with everything you said. Glad you liked it, you'll be more than welcome to come play the final product once I get mine.

#27 11 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

It's almost as though the team was so concerned with putting, "toys" in this game that they forgot what IM showed us, pinball doesn't need the BS to be great.

That was always my worry aboot it. For a first game you might want to just have a solid playable game, but they went the opposite way of widebody, 2 upper playfields, and that can come back to bite you. Then again that might have been just to come out super strong and get buyers.

#28 11 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Too bad your XMEN will probably never be easy to understand or flowing either.

X-Men's flow is great if you can make your shots. I'm not a very good player, but I luck into some great combos on it from time to time.

As for being easy to understand...as a whole it should eventually be about as simple as it gets: Beat hero modes to get to Danger Room. Beat villain modes to get to Dark Phoenix. They have some un-needed qualifications in the game now, but I think that is just in place to block the unfinished wizard mode for now. No big road map or crazy qualifications to study while you are cradling the ball. Where X-Men needs some work is using the inserts properly to better convey what shots are needed to beat each mode. The last update has come a long way in this area and has really done a good job of displaying what needs to be done, even when a Hero and Villain mode are stacked.

#29 11 years ago

Very good review! I can't wait to play it next week!

#30 11 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

That was always my worry aboot it. For a first game you might want to just have a solid playable game, but they went the opposite way of widebody, 2 upper playfields, and that can come back to bite you. Then again that might have been just to come out super strong and get buyers.

Kind of disagree. As a first game they need to stand out in any aspect they can from Stern. And I'm not bashing Stern there at all as they have "solid playable games". But not much point going to the time and effort to manufacture whats already available no?

#31 11 years ago
Quoted from Hobbypinball:

Kind of disagree. As a first game they need to stand out in any aspect they can from Stern. And I'm not bashing Stern there at all as they have "solid playable games". But not much point going to the time and effort to manufacture whats already available no?

I definitely think that's a big reason why Jack decided to go with a widebody. One hadn't been made since last millenium.

#32 11 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I definitely think that's a big reason why Jack decided to go with a widebody. One hadn't been made since last millenium.

My thoughts exactly.

#33 11 years ago
Quoted from Hobbypinball:

But not much point going to the time and effort to manufacture whats already available no?

Yeah basically that's what my last sentance was aboot. They tried to go balls to the wall and jam pack a ton of stuff into it...and I can see the point of that for sure. BUT when you do that you are running a risk.

#34 11 years ago
Quoted from balloukevin:

In fact, there are now no fewer than 6 entities now claiming to be a pinball company.

But, if I pull my van up to the local distributor to buy some games to route , there is only one entitie actually making games; STERN.

#35 11 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

But, if I pull my van up to the local distributor to buy some games to route , there is only one entitie actually making games; STERN.

Vid your vernacular is not correct more that one company is making games. Only one company has NIB product available for possession. But the times are a changen' ...................

#36 11 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

But, if I pull my van up to the local distributor

....

..who has a game to sell?

no, what has a game to sell.

Who does?

What.

That's what I'm asking...

#37 11 years ago
Quoted from pindome:

Vid your vernacular is not correct more that one company is making games. Only one company has NIB product available for possession. But the times are a changen' ...................

You are both right.
WOZ will ship soon enough (hoping)
But Stern is only one with any games were you can pay money and receive a game.

#38 11 years ago

I think i final can describe what i dont like about the layout. I knew i did not like mini playfields, but the rest i was not sure of why it did not grap me.

Now i know. Wen you remove the two mini playfields. And then look at the shot lay out, then it feels like a normal body number of shots into a widebody cabinet. Resulting in slow balls when a target is missed.

That whole rainbow standup target area could be 3 different shots. Its taking to much place. It would be awsome if there was another ramp underneath going the house and then up, or a subway, or a loop.

Left side i am missing something too. I am not sure yet how that area will be play at the end.

I bope i am wrong but i am afraid that the gameplay is just not for me. And i hope the honbit will have more different shots in the playfield and not like on woz that the miniplayfields take all attention.

#39 11 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

I am not sure yet how that area will be play at the end.

That's what I always wonder aboot overall. Hard to tell if it has good shots if you don;t really know what to shoot at.
As for not having enough shots for a widebody I can;t quite follow that one.

#40 11 years ago

Ok, well, i tried my best to explain what i mean in english the best i could.

Maybe gameplaywise its some sort of feeling. Sme you like and some you dont. And its to hard to explain in words why sometimes.

I tried but it seems i failed this time, .

#41 11 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Ok, well, i tried my best to explain what i mean in english the best i could.

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear enough. I hear what you are saying, but the amount of shots per width of the game doesn't worry me personally. IJ is a wide body, which I love, and doesn't have a ton of shots. JD is an insteresting game...and sometimes I think it has too many shots

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