(Topic ID: 115365)

Woz redemption pin unveiled


By lllvjr

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by blue95
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10
#51 4 years ago

I'm sure Jack will release more info... BUT... here's the skinny on it...

ALL this (and more coming) was planned by Jack from day one of JJP... The WOZ theme selection, the LCD, the redemption pinball idea, the Eplate card, was all part of the plan to get pinball BACK into arcades / entertainment centers. To get KIDS exposed to pinball, to further the hobby and the game of pinball. This is all part of his big master plan... Did it get sidetracked along the way - of course to handle getting WOZ done... NOW you will start seeing alot of things coming to fruition on this end.

The game programming is different, there are new animations for the LCD. It can be set on limited number of balls with easily attainable objectives... Make this ramp once, Kill the witch, spell a character, etc... all while earning tickets for each thing. AND the LCD will guide players what they need to do to win tickets. It's not just sticking a ticket dispenser on a game and chucking out tickets, this is INTEGRATED into specific programming geared for operators. Like everything else JJP does this not a half assed attempt - this is a well thought out and 100% effort to do it right. And it's not done - there are more things coming related to the Eplate card that will add online redemption / maybe internet connectivity / social media / etc... Jack can speak to that when he's ready. Again, was all part of the plan from the beginning...

The WOZ game is already making money on location - most times double or triple what other current games do. I sold a WOZ75 to a guy that put one in a bar (of all places) and since November he's brought in about $ 4,000 - $ 5,000, needless to say he was happy with that result. Typical story.

All future games will have this availability at some point as well. It just takes programming.

Bottom line, folks, it's another advance forward for JJP and it's good for pinball. It's going to exposure more young kids to pinball, and ultimately their parents as well. It's going to get operators to buy pinball again.

Hope this helps answer some questions until JJP / Jack can get more specifics out...

Oh and we have WOZ Standards, WOZ 75th's in stock and Hobbit LE's and Smaugs available for sale (day one orders) for those looking to buy... : )

Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements
Authorized Jersey Jack Pinball Distributor
Sales@PinballSTAR.com
570-357-0042

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

There it is...cutting a huge hole in side of cabinet ouch... Wonder if it's a rules and timer based?

It looks like all of the tickets are self contained in that unit, so at worst my guess would be drilling a hole for some cables to connect.

As for timed games, WhoDunnit had timed games. As did safecracker. I am still skeptical if attaching ticket spitters to traditional pins will make them that much more attractive to younger redemption-addict kiddie-gamblers. It still is totally not obvious what actions to take in order to maximize ticket wins (unless the playfield is redesigned), and it still looks like one of those "Old pinball thingies" that kids ignore.

Now replace the playfield with a screen, and then your dynamic playfield art can suddenly very clearly tell you what your simple goals are for maximizing tickets. Make that screen interactive with the ball, showing the kind of interactive gameplay these kids experience every day on their touchscreen devices, and I think you might have a pinball redemption winner!

Now if only there were a platform that had the versatility to offer deep games us traditional Pinheads love, technology kids love, and gameplay options that can dynamically change to adapt to both groups, thus satisfying the widest range of audience possible, and offering us unlimited possibilities for the future of the Hobby.

Surely all of pinside would be talking about that and not excitement or disappointment over which decades old theme the latest game offers.

Sigh.

#53 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Different programming..ticket dispenser... Timed game... Arcade operators here they come

image-180.jpg 74 KB

Am I missing something? This just looks like some tickets jammed under the coin door.

#54 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

It's sad, but I'd love to see a test program with pinball where you drop a coin in, the ball immediately auto plunges (no pressing start button), and you have 15 seconds to wack the ball around, and tickets come out. That would be a money maker most likely.

That's not too far from what we have. I suppose I could think about avoid the start button. Right now, you have to press it.

Quoted from ek77:

If you think all redemption games cost $10,000 plus I have a bridge to sell you.

Just all the ones that earn.

Quoted from PalomarAmusement:

Will this work with Hobbit too? If so can we get it factory installed on Hobbit?

The Pindemption system is part of our core coding, so yes, all games will support it. I don't know what the plans are for factory installation, we haven't really talked about it yet. No promises, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was an option.

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from Law:

Am I missing something? This just looks like some tickets jammed under the coin door.

The game at the show does not have a ticket dispenser, you are correct. It's just show. Kind of like this picture:

I still love ya, Steve

Rest assured, though, the game in our office does have a dispenser and it works just fine.

#56 4 years ago

(Redundant information deleted. Keith beat me to the response.)

#57 4 years ago

Just to clarify (for those that asked), Stern pins have had a ticket option. I was actually working on a TSPP yesterday which just has a ticket slot in one of the bill acceptor plates with a standard ticket hopper inside. Then of course a few years ago Stern unveiled the huge ticket hopper that mounts on the side of the cabinet (seen above). The problem with pins and tickets is that it wasn't their original purpose and Stern didn't do any real code/game changes or otherwise highlight the fact that you can win tickets (other than lousy banner in tournament topper spot), or how many. Kids who want tickets want them quick, they want them flashy, they want them cheap WoZ is flashy for a pin but it's still a pin, so I'll be interested to check this out and see how well it does at locations.

And as for other redemption games...yes they are expensive new. And if it's not, 99% chance its just an overseas knock-off that turns into a giant paperweight once parts fail (quickly) and you can't get replacements. I clicked on a few of those sub $4k whack-a-mole games and I've seen them all...junk junk junk.

But even more OT, I was messing with a newer ticket redemption game yesterday called Black Out. Friggin awesome technology...massive pass-through (transparent) display with a touchscreen overlay. I think most kids are overwhelmed by it though.

#58 4 years ago

Good times ahead. Hopefully it does well

#59 4 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

If you think all redemption games cost $10,000 plus I have a bridge to sell you.

When was the last time you purchased redemption equipment new?

#60 4 years ago
Quoted from ReplayRyan:

The problem with pins and tickets is that it wasn't their original purpose and Stern didn't do any real code/game changes or otherwise highlight the fact that you can win tickets (other than lousy banner in tournament topper spot), or how many. Kids who want tickets want them quick, they want them flashy, they want them cheap WoZ is flashy for a pin but it's still a pin, so I'll be interested to check this out and see how well it does at locations.

We definitely highlight the fact you can win tickets and when you get them during the game. We have changed the software so that tickets are goal-based not score-based or extra ball-based or replay/special-based. The game doesn't even show you a score, it shows you how many tickets you have won that game.

Maybe someone will get a video of it from the show.

#61 4 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

The game doesn't even show you a score, it shows you how many tickets you have won that game.

I think this will help.

Thanks the chiming in Keith.

I've watched my 9-year old son take a cup of tokens and lose them all inside of 2 minutes. They drop a coin in, they watch tickets come out. It literally is kiddie gambling. The less skill in the redemption game, the simpler and easier it is, will probably mean more earnings.

Quoted from pinball_keefer:

I suppose I could think about avoid the start button. Right now, you have to press it.

I'd think about it, just comparing it to the experience of other games. Drop a coin in, something happens immediately. I'd even test drop a coin and ball auto fires.

I'm being very cynical, but that is the state of redemption these days. And as a businessman, I'd have to follow the money.

#62 4 years ago

I know that this is for operators, but I think it would be cool to be able to switch back and forth between the regular software and the redemption software in a home environment. That way I could play with the normal code and my kids could play the goal-oriented redemption code. It might be more fun for them even without a ticket dispenser. Kind of like a "kid mode".

--Luke

#63 4 years ago

What a great idea. Hope it takes off like a rocket.

-1
#64 4 years ago

It's not that hard to teach somebody how do play the game when there is a screen on it. Make a semi-short 'how to play' video and play that as a part of attract mode.

Here's how to start the game.

Here's how to play the game. (hint: flipper buttons are still on the side)

Here's how to win tickets.

#65 4 years ago
Quoted from HighNoon:

I know that this is for operators, but I think it would be cool to be able to switch back and forth between the regular software and the redemption software in a home environment. That way I could play with the normal code and my kids could play the goal-oriented redemption code. It might be more fun for them even without a ticket dispenser. Kind of like a "kid mode".
--Luke

I was just thinking that, i think its a great idea and one of the Chucky Cheese type pins got one of these it would be great, but id totally go pop tokens in the thing for real game play. I'm sure its pipe dream thinking, but what if there was a code sequence that could be put in pre coin drop (like hit left flipper 5 times, right flipper 6, than hit start 3 times) that would let the next game be with regualr code. Im sure this is wishful thinking but, would be cool.

#66 4 years ago
Quoted from CptAwesomest:

I was just thinking that, i think its a great idea and one of the Chucky Cheese type pins got one of these it would be great, but id totally go pop tokens in the thing for real game play. I'm sure its pipe dream thinking, but what if there was a code sequence that could be put in pre coin drop (like hit left flipper 5 times, right flipper 6, than hit start 3 times) that would let the next game be with regualr code. Im sure this is wishful thinking but, would be cool.

I don't see why that would be difficult. A "smart" player would know to look at the screen and follow instructions for regular pinball, hold whatever button when putting their coins in.

#67 4 years ago

It would be cool if you chose "regular" pinball and beat SOTR, you got to pick one of the "top row" prizes for your kid...

#68 4 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

We definitely highlight the fact you can win tickets and when you get them during the game. We have changed the software so that tickets are goal-based not score-based or extra ball-based or replay/special-based. The game doesn't even show you a score, it shows you how many tickets you have won that game.
Maybe someone will get a video of it from the show.

The problem is Pinball is too hard for the redemption market. Let's face it, these kids suck at pinball. Very few are going to be able to complete any goals and they just don't have the patience to learn. Redemption works on luck and the fact that no matter how badly you do, the game spits out a crapload of tickets.

#69 4 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

The problem is Pinball is too hard for the redemption market. Let's face it, these kids suck at pinball. Very few are going to be able to complete any goals and they just don't have the patience to learn. Redemption works on luck and the fact that no matter how badly you do, the game spits out a crapload of tickets.

Not entirely. I see kids put in token after token to get 2 tickets every time. That doesn't get you anything at the counter.

One of my boys likes to play skeeball. That's fine since it takes him a while to throw the 9 balls and he is getting something more than pushing a button out of it. I don't really care that he isn't getting many tickets there because he is enjoying the game, not the tickets.

On other machines, I've told them a few to not even try, or they have figured it out. A token down a ramp to get a single ticket gets old if the kid has any smarts at all. These things are basically coin-op babysitters and most parents don't care what amount of tickets the kids get out of it. I use them to teach my kids about comparing what is the best way to have fun, get tickets, or both. My kids tend to leave with some/several fun smaller prizes. Other kids I see, I know exactly how they will be spending their Social Security check in 70 years, pumping it into a machine in a casino.

#70 4 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Not entirely. I see kids put in token after token to get 2 tickets every time. That doesn't get you anything at the counter.
One of my boys likes to play skeeball. That's fine since it takes him a while to throw the 9 balls and he is getting something more than pushing a button out of it. I don't really care that he isn't getting many tickets there because he is enjoying the game, not the tickets.
On other machines, I've told them a few to not even try, or they have figured it out. A token down a ramp to get a single ticket gets old if the kid has any smarts at all. These things are basically coin-op babysitters and most parents don't care what amount of tickets the kids get out of it. I use them to teach my kids about comparing what is the best way to have fun, get tickets, or both. My kids tend to leave with some/several fun smaller prizes. Other kids I see, I know exactly how they will be spending their Social Security check in 70 years, pumping it into a machine in a casino.

I don't see this at all with kids. The redemption games that they play no matter what spit out a bunch of tickets(at least 20 or 30). Its about the tickets they can hold in their hands that makes them feel like they are good at the game. The more skill involved, the less they like the game. Two tickets don't cut it for them. Your kid is an outlier. You should be proud.

#71 4 years ago

When I'm with the kids at the arcade I'm pumping money into games for tickets to give them... I would happily pump them into woz for my enjoyment and there's after lol

#72 4 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

I don't see this at all with kids. The redemption games that they play no matter what spit out a bunch of tickets(at least 20 or 30). Its about the tickets they can hold in their hands that makes them feel like they are good at the game. The more skill involved, the less they like the game. Two tickets don't cut it for them. Your kid is an outlier. You should be proud.

I am very proud of my kids. They are a handful at times, but are very smart and caring.

Out of curiosity, where you are seeing these machines giving out a lot of tickets, is it a chain, or a one-off? My sample size is pretty small because there is only one place in town I will agree to go to. The others are way to insane for me to punish myself by sitting through for an hour or two. We go to a Peter Piper Pizza, which is a small chain in town, but I have no idea how far out they spread.

If there was one of these at the PPP we go to, I'd certainly play it. I give any tickets I win to my kids anyway, so for me, it would be about me being able to play a game format I enjoy, while being able to give my kids something that they could use to buy something they would enjoy.

#73 4 years ago

Many of the redemption places have moved to tokens & tickets on a card. You pay and get tokens added to your card, swipe to play and the virtual tickets you win go on to the card. Each game just has a little card reader with lcd screen that displays/adds up the tickets you win as you play. So you just add a card reader on the coin door much like a dollar bill or credit card reader, no damage to the machine. No tickets to restock in the machine, no tickets to count at the prize booth.
imagesVHI7F53Q.jpg

11
#74 4 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

The problem is Pinball is too hard for the redemption market. Let's face it, these kids suck at pinball. Very few are going to be able to complete any goals and they just don't have the patience to learn. Redemption works on luck and the fact that no matter how badly you do, the game spits out a crapload of tickets.

While I understand your cynicism, I don't really share it. I like to think we have some clue as to what we're doing, and pictures like this:

Prodigy?

make me think we're on the right track. She's in for 9 tickets already, can't see how much time is left (ENHANCE!).

#75 4 years ago

This is great, use the redemption angle to get the machines out to as many locations as possible, then have some way (flipper codes, etc.) for people to who want to play normal pinball to access the original game software.

#76 4 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

While I understand your cynicism, I don't really share it. I like to think we have some clue as to what we're doing, and pictures like this:
Prodigy?
make me think we're on the right track. She's in for 9 tickets already, can't see how much time is left (ENHANCE!).

girl_woz_tickets.jpg 56 KB

Just print the damn thing!

Is there a timeline on this? Nothing concrete, but a guess as to when I can start bugging my local ticket center to get one so I have something to do there.

-1
#77 4 years ago

Sadly, with current Florida legislation in place, this redemption Woz would be considered illegal in FL
Not a good sign for Florida F.EC. Operators as redemption is their bread and butter.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-claw-machines-20150110-story.html

#78 4 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

She's in for 9 tickets already, can't see how much time is left

Actually, it seems like the bigger problem is that most of the target audience needs step stools or a much shorter set of legs for them to have any chance of seeing the upper playfields. I'm hereby inventing 22" legs. Problem solved. You can just send me a check.

#79 4 years ago

Disney ditching claw machines, video-game
By Sandra Pedicini
Orlando Sentinel
contact the reporter

Disney arcades will stop issuing prizes
No more claw machines, redemption counters at Disney
Walt Disney World plans to stop dispensing prizes at its hotel video-game arcades, and Florida's ban on Internet cafes may be to blame.

Prize redemption counters at the resort's hotels, where kids turn in game points for toys and candy, are being closed. The hotels and other spots in the resort are also losing claw machines, the joystick-maneuvered games that inspired one of the most famous scenes in "Toy Story."

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Disney acknowledged it is shutting down the redemption counters and claw machines but wouldn't say why. Some in Florida's arcade industry, though, say Disney appears to be avoiding the threat of legal action after the state's 2013 legislation banning Internet cafes. In its wake, opponents of the legislation have sued Dave & Buster's and Chuck E. Cheese's, arguing their arcade games also violate the broadly written law. Final rulings not been made in those lawsuits.

"I'm sure Disney's the last place in the world that wants to get accused of operating a gambling house," said Michael Wolf, an attorney representing the Florida Arcade and Bingo Association.

The law spells out that people can't win more than 75 cents' worth of prizes for each game played, and that the games have to be operated by coins. Like many other family entertainment centers, Disney's arcades are activated by cards. With each game they play, people can accumulate credits on the cards that can be exchanged for things such as Hello Kitty plush toys, Disney princess purses and mini-air-hockey games.

cComments
@patrick.*** . I'm all for the seniors going to the internet cafe for their entertainment. Just tax or permit the business and let them operate. The casino's aren't losing that much money from these local sites.
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AT 3:29 PM JANUARY 12, 2015
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James Harhi, whose company JFH Technologies fills and maintains arcade games at the resort, said Disney told him "it's in their best interest to close these," because it fears legislation could be interpreted as outlawing the video games with prizes.

Harhi said that because Disney is removing so many machines that dispense prizes, he is laying off several of his company's employees, who make $15 to $17 an hour. Two have already been let go, he said, and he will probably have to lay off two or three more.

Disney is not laying off any of its own workers. A union representative said 22 employees who staff the counters are being put in other positions in mid-February.

Already, the Note'able Games arcade at Disney's All-Star Music Resort has gotten rid of its redemption counter. Disney still has the prize counters in five other hotels, including the Contemporary, All-Star Sports, All-Star Movies, Pop Century and Art of Animation.

The Magic Kingdom's Tomorrowland Arcade is closing Feb. 8, and games from there will be going into the hotel arcades to replace the ones that issue prizes for points.

The impending removal of prizes "kind of stinks," said Johannah Palasky of Philadelphia, whose 8-year-old son, Connell, played in the Contemporary's Game Station last week.

The Contemporary's Game Station offers dozens of electronic games, including Pac-Man, Frogger and Monopoly, and many of them issue electronic "tickets" for prizes. The more tickets you get, the better the gifts.

Connell wanted to save up points on his card for one of the bigger rewards.

"My son loves it," Johanna Palasky said. He wins "average arcade stuff, but they're happy to get anything."

State Sen. Kelli Stargel, a Lakeland Republican, filed legislation last week that would loosen restrictions on family entertainment centers, including allowing machines to be operated by cards, not just coins, and increasing the allowed value of prizes. Stargel tried passing similar legislation last year, but it did not make it through the Legislature.

Stargel, whose district includes Disney World, said Disney's lobbyists had not spoken with her about the issue. Stargel said she had spoken with other businesses, including one in her district, along with Chuck E. Cheese and Dave & Buster's. Those chains still offer prizes.

Mike Abecassis, who owns several family entertainment centers called GameTime in Florida, said he hopes Disney might wait to remove the machines in hopes the legislation will pass.

"We'd prefer for them to not take that away," he said. "It just makes our business less relevant in the state."

The 2013 ban on Internet cafes came in the wake of a multistate probe into Allied Veterans of the World, an operator that billed itself as a charitable organization for veterans but which gave only about 2 percent of its profits to veterans groups.

The legislation also limited arcades that catered to senior citizens and offered low-stakes bets and paid off in things such as Publix gift cards. Many of those "senior arcades" — represented by the Florida Arcade and Bingo Association — ended up closing.

Wolf, the arcade and bingo association's attorney, has subsequently filed lawsuits against places such as Dave & Buster's. Those are on hold pending the results of a related federal lawsuit, he said.

"For the Legislature to think gambling for kids is OK but not for adults was pretty hypocritical," he said. "That was essentially what we were setting out to show."

Shortly after the law passed, the arcade association also sent an investigator to check out Disney's hotel arcades. The investigator, Carlos De Varona, made a complaint to the Orange County Sheriff's Office about the games. A report said the Sheriff's Office contacted the Metropolitan Bureau of Investigation, which said there were no gaming-law violations. Suing Disney, said arcade association President Gale Fontaine, would have been "like trying to go after Goliath."

Still, Disney is likely showing "an abundance of caution" by getting rid of games for prizes, said David Ramba, a lobbyist who used to represent the arcade association.

"If I was their lobbyist, I would have told them to get rid of the machines too," Ramba said.

spedicini@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5240

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#80 4 years ago

Will only work in Holland if you get a beer for each ticket you have won.

#81 4 years ago

I could see them outlawing Crane games (they are gambling, there is no skill in a Skill-Crane), but Internet Cafe too?

Raise your hand if you want more government in your lives....

#82 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I could see them outlawing Crane games (they are gambling, there is no skill in a Skill-Crane), but Internet Cafe too?
Raise your hand if you want more government in your lives....

I think that if the general public knew the truth about crane games and some other rigged redemption games there would be quite the public outrage. Most people see it as a game of skill. But I don't really get the internet cafe ban.

#83 4 years ago

that's a much cleaner approach than the bolt-on ticket dispensers (right side of the cabinet) that I've seen for the stern machines

the tron LE at marvin's marvelous mechanical museum in farmington hills, mi has one

#84 4 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

But I don't really get the internet cafe ban.

reading that article, it seems like "internet cafes" in florida were just facades for senior gambling. I'm thinking the intent was not to stop college students from checking their emails or playing multiplayer games.

#85 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

reading that article, it seems like "internet cafes" in florida were just facades for senior gambling. I'm thinking the intent was not to stop college students from checking their emails or playing multiplayer games.

Sad how Pinball History repeats itself.

Under current Florida Law, if a pinball machine costs $1 per play, and you win a free game ( which has a value of more then 75 cents) this would be considered an illegal gamling device.

Didnt this happen to pinball back in the 70s or 80s?

#86 4 years ago

Yeah, this is why there werre "add-a-ball" editions of games, so there was no replay of value. Kind of a crazy distinction when you think about it.

#87 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I could see them outlawing Crane games (they are gambling, there is no skill in a Skill-Crane), but Internet Cafe too?
Raise your hand if you want more government in your lives....

That totally depends on how they're setup. My cranes are setup 100% skill and you can win a prize everytime. I have people who will win two or three prizes in a row. I spend a lot of time adjusting my cranes so that they're at the right level of difficulty to be fair to both the players but not so easy as to be able to just clear out the machine.

I actually think that running them on 100% skill helps the earnings because my regular players know that they can walk up and win a prize. They also know that they can win two prizes in a row so they don't stop playing after they win a single prize.

#88 4 years ago

All that room in the bottom of the cab and that's Sterns solution? Explains a lot.

#89 4 years ago

Punchy the clown set the standard for Redemption/ Pinball machines

Through the coin door it is operator adjustable as to the game mode choice, "Regular " 3 ball play or

"Redemption" One ball play with different sounds and point scoring and ticket dispensing.

It has two sets of leg mounting holes for adjustable height for either kids or adults.

Simple to understand rules with the two jackpots small and large that are hard to achieve.

Very simple to work on and very reliable. Punchy has been at Modern and gets just as much play as the other machines yet has had only one failure. Ball guide mount wore off.

Its a really nice jewel of a machine.

That being said, in my view redemption machines suck as the game play is boring and is designed for the play to last as long as it takes the quarter /token to land in the coin box.

Thats also the attention span of those playing them.

Pinball as a redemption machine will not recruit new players as those that play them in redemption locations only care about colors ,lights and how many tickets they can get asap so that they can buy the piece of cloth with eyes for a gazillion tickets.

Tickets are the only real thing they want and focus on like Pavlovs dog.

What would be done to real Pinball pros that can win thousands of tickets?

Would Keith Elwin be banned from playing, would his image be on the back box screen saying banned?

Not only that but the link between gambling and Pinball will once again rear its ugly head with councilmen seeking names for themselves. You know it will come no matter how preposterous it is,

Not to mention a new venue for down "Pinball" machines to be seen by the youth as who is going to repair them? Dave and Buster techs LOL

Has anyone seen the gum ball dispenser pins? Very small nothing really to do but flip the gum ball into an out hole to collect it from the dispenser. Its small and so simple that it would not really be associated with pinball by the youth as it is too detached from real pinball and easily forgotten.

Redemption mode Pinball machines are much closer to actual pinball which can confuse some youth.
If a kid has a house ball ball and doesnt get his cherished tickets or if the machine isn't working and he gets stiffed a ticket then the bad image of "Pinball" is engraved forever. Once again these kids want to simply hit a button on a light and get their tickets FAST having to play Pinball is just too much work for most of them sad as it is.

Redemption Pinball all seems good on paper until its thought through. Yes we all want pinball to be seen again but not in this format. Redemption /Pinball is not pinball it will more than likely only wind up bringing a negative image for Pinball in the long run.

Now wasn't that an uplifting post?

#90 4 years ago
Quoted from PalomarAmusement:

That totally depends on how they're setup. My cranes are setup 100% skill and you can win a prize everytime.

Yours and the ones in WA are probably the only ones in the entire country set for skill.

Even old ones, now used for candy dispensers, are usually set for "play till you win" so the kids can get something back.

#91 4 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

What would be done to real Pinball pros that can win thousands of tickets?

We did that once, gave some kids about a billion tickets from Tron.

Quoted from Eddie:

Now wasn't that an uplifting post?

I only come here for amateur Joel Osteen, WTF????

joel-osteen.jpg
#92 4 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Now wasn't that an uplifting post?

It's also based on history and doesn't address the way we're handling it at all. It's a new product; we'll see how it does. Most of us have been around the industry long enough to have a pretty good idea of what we're attempting and doing.

#93 4 years ago

If this will bring pins into places like Dave and Buster's, great, but I agree with the sentiments that this still won't get kids to play pinball. You can dumb it way down for kids, but you still have the complexity and reliability issues of a pinball machine for operators to deal with.

If I'm a kid, this thing would have to spit out 50 times what I'm used to getting for something simple like hitting a ramp. Otherwise I'm going to walk right past it to the next machine with flashing lights where all I have to do is hit a button while the lights spin around and I hold my little hand covered in pizza grease and orange pop waiting for my ten tickets so I can go buy a little box of Nerds candy when the party is over.

#94 4 years ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Would Keith Elwin be banned from playing, would his image be on the back box screen saying banned?

The fact that someone like Keith Elwin could dominate a ticket dispensing Wizard of Oz would be the reason that these machines would be allowed to exist at all outside of Las Vegas. It becomes a clear demonstration that it is a game of skill versus a game of luck. Operators would celebrate the existence of people like Keith, but hope Keith never visits their arcade.

Last I checked, arcade basketball are also games of skill and I don't think they have any problem making money for operators, despite players like this:

#95 4 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

Compare coin pushers to WOZ coin pushers have fore to five coin slots to feed the game WOZ has one compare the price of four or five to the price of a coin pusher.

FOUR!!!

Fore is the skin on your nether parts. Or what you yell after you just hit a crappy golf shot and are about to skull someone with a ball.

#96 4 years ago
Quoted from nosro:

Last I checked, arcade basketball are also games of skill and I don't think they have any problem making money for operators, despite players like this:

Holy crap, that was not what I expected!

#97 4 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

I don't see this at all with kids. The redemption games that they play no matter what spit out a bunch of tickets(at least 20 or 30). Its about the tickets they can hold in their hands that makes them feel like they are good at the game. The more skill involved, the less they like the game. Two tickets don't cut it for them. Your kid is an outlier. You should be proud.

Woz was made for hard core pinball player even if it pays out it has to be a very different game no one enjoys having a game kick there ass time after time as it would do to a six year old. The 90 second time may work?

#98 4 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

Woz was made for hard core pinball player even if it pays out it has to be a very different game no one enjoys having a game kick there ass time after time as it would do to a six year old. The 90 second time may work?

I think this is where we need to withhold judgment until the final product is released. It's been made clear that the rules will be different. How different remains to be seen.

If you ask me, JJP already got this ticket redemption concept started on the right foot by picking a theme that is not centered around the interests of middle aged men.

- Theme
- Physical design
- Rule set

There's no sense passing judgment until all three are in place.

#99 4 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

Woz was made for hard core pinball player even if it pays out it has to be a very different game no one enjoys having a game kick there ass time after time as it would do to a six year old. The 90 second time may work?

THEIR!!! Unless your ass is over there.

Oh, this could be fun.

#100 4 years ago

And I quote with the last line being significant.

Quoted from Eddie:

The link between gambling and Pinball will once again rear its ugly head with councilmen seeking names for themselves. You know it will come no matter how preposterous it is,

In my post I was saying that it is the operator that was more than likely to limit the play of an expert player.

I used to work as a Carny as a Ride forman and ran a 22short range. The midway games owners would ban players that won often on their games. Or limit them to one play per day. Carnival Midway,Dave and busters its still the same business only one is more polished.

The machines for operators are to make money.

Having someone wining tons of tickets even in front of people watching means nothing as a draw.
I can elaborate from experience but this isn't the thread for that.

Don't get me wrong I hope they succeed I think that would be great but I only think that if it was successful it would have been done long ago its just gaming natural selection.

I think the RandD and other costs for this would have been better suited to a new pinball machine or for Pinball advertising in places other then Pinball related media.

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