Dam-You mean I can drink beer eat BBQ and play WOZ-Whoop Whoop

I played about 8 games and walked away not impressed. The plunger was weak and was even hard just to get to the top lanes. I hit the right ramp a lot and all it did was advance? Not 1 multiball in all games I played. The plunger for the left upper playfield was weak and took like 5 or 6 pops just to make it to the top left playfield and then the flipper there also seemed weak to not hit any targets. Very little LCD animations and all in all was a bore fest. $8000 for this machine, I'll pass!!

Wow that must have been ancient code or really bad game play. There are 4 multiballs in the game and 2 of the 4 are very easy to get. Quick 2 ball multiballs just by spelling "ball" and hitting the spinner.

It also sounds like the operator didn't adjust any of the coil values. They come set extremely low from the factory and must be tuned to each person's gameplay.

Next software update should boost default power values I would think. Definitely got a poor impression considering the code isn't up to date based on your description.

Not ripping on anyone but this seems like a horrible idea to have every coil adjustable, operators already don't make money on pinball and now it is their job to tune the coils ? Shit operators can't even clean a game on location !

I thought it was a great idea.

On a game like STNG, if you could make the upper left flipper just a little stronger, you can make the ramp shot easier.

LTG : )

Make them adjustable yes but why not have them set at optimum strength from the factory? It's all very odd. Weak plungers, VUKs and clunky variable strength flippers on brand new machines? Shouldn't everything just work and work well?

I would think Default should be a well playing game set at the right angle level. Not Low.. I'm sure they will address this issue in feature releases though.

They come set playable. It all depends on so many variables like pitch and operator preference.

Jim I bet the operator takes the time to set the price and the replay value & percentages so saying they won't adjust those doesn't hold water.

Also I don't know if this is a prototype game or a shipping game. That actually makes a difference.

I have no idea if this is a proto game or a shipping game. If the owner wants to contact me ill help them make it run perfectly but like anything else if the op doesn't care for the pin and its proper setup then you can't expect an enjoyable game.

For all I know the game could be leaning to one side and not level.

So setting the price settings is the same as test playing the game for hours to figure out each coil strength is the same thing ?

The same OP that will adjust the coils ?

Hours? Try 2 mins. Play 1 maybe 2 balls just to check them. Stop over exaggerating.

He makes a good point, though. Many ops, sadly, just slide the game out of the box, set it up and leave it like that. How many times have we seen games on location running the earliest code version for years, or not incorporating service bulletin fixes or other modifications that make a game play better? For example, a Funhouse on location here has the two left flippers wired backwards, so the upper flipper flips before the bottom one. When asked to change it, the operator said that it came to him that way when he bought it, so that's the way it's supposed to be. I have a bad feeling some ops might take that sort of stance on coils being too weak out of the box, too.

Ideally it will play pretty well out of the box to help avoid that. I, for one, will be tweaking mine to play just right before it gets a quarter dropped into it!

Unfortunately no one, not jjp or stern can fix a poor op. games need work and adjustment. They don't work the same in every location. They are adjusted to function perfectly out of the box. The defaults do change occasionally release to release as any games do but again if the op doesn't update, don't take care of their games don't put money in them. I've spoken to a bunch of ops who have them on location and they take a few mins (sometimes longer) and make sure it's playing perfectly before letting a coin drop.

If folks don't take pride in their work that's just sad. As much as Jim gives me shit just about every chance he can, he takes pride in what he does and the output shows that. There are restorers (and I use that term loosely) who's primary tool is a paper towel and some windex.

If I were an Op, and just bought ANY pin, I would take the time to tune the machine for the best play. In my mind the best play = the most earnings. It's just not good business practice to spend that much money on an investment and not take the time to optimize that investment's return potential... People should earn a living, not buy a living.

The problem is that lots of people purchase a pinball machine without knowing that they are a pain in the ass to set up and dial-in and keep functioning if you are not experienced. Maintaining a machine, especially a publicly playable machine on location, is not simple. Mechanical wear, software updates, wear prevention (cliffy!), routine maintenance and cleaning, and so on. Tough to learn that stuff on the fly without getting frustrated or overwhelmed.

It's not like most distributors warn any potential purchasers that these machines aren't "plug and play" like a lot of other high end video game or recreational toys. They want to sell those $6K-$8K machines and make some money. They don't want to scare off any novices. I'm sure many people including people who put games out on location assume that they don't really need to be maintained. Set it up, plug it in, turn it on, and you're done.

Obviously Pinside is mostly made up of experienced and savvy pinball enthusiasts. But there are scores of owners who basically never clean or update a machine once purchasing it. There are lots of threads here where people show a machine that's been in the wild and has been massacred and destroyed from countless hammering with little to no cleaning. In a few years there will no doubt be some WOZ machines that look like they went through acts of terrorism or biblical retribution.

Not always true on the streets.

LTG : )

Well, if I drop a dollar into a turd, I won't do it a second time...

This thread is funny.

PRODUCTION games that are currently shipping should be set to ideal values out of the box (I certainly haven't heard otherwise yet). So... are we really then arguing that giving the machine owner a chance to fix a potential coil strength problem with a choice of 32 settings on a coil-by-coil basis - whether it be due to particular setup, low/high line voltage, years of wear or simply personal preference - is a HORRIBLE IDEA? Really? No one's saying they come out the box at 0 and you have to figure out the magic number. Of course there are "average" defaults that should work, just like new Sterns come out of the box "playable" and you can then choose from general low/medium/high coils in settings.

Next you'll be telling us that leg levellers are a bad idea, because every machine should come set to a perfect 6.5 degrees from the factory, and to hell with unlevel floors!

For whatever reason, the same batch wants to pull your chain.

We still do not even know if this is a prototype or a production game.

Same group every time. And the arguments are frail and weakly pointed but i digress.

If anyone knows who the op is I will try and talk to them about turning up the coil juice.

JJ send them my way and I will help them tune every facet.

So, I can't comment ? Some of you woz guys are pathetic !

I for one can't wait for the masses to get their games so we can stop this secret club shit !

They come set "extremely low"? Why?

Wait.. Low or playable?

How about "ideal"? It is clear that operators generally do very little. Why wouldn't the game be set to optimal settings and then if the operator wanted to mess with it for some reason they could? Sending out a game with coils set "extremely low" doesnt make sense.

I love this comment. "You didnt like the way the game played so you probably suck".

Would it have better to say: "I am sorry you had a bad experience playing WOZ. Unfortunately I cant tell what version of the game you played and if it was an early production game, that could explain your less than ideal experience. Rest assured current games have been fine tuned to address these issues"?

.

They come set absolutely playable but lower on the scale of available settings. It's up to the owner to determine the strength.

Again same few folks.

Alex,

Any idea when Jack expects the next shipment of production boards?

Yep, I admit to not being very good at pinball, but that's why I play, to get better and mostly have fun. The whole point is that a $8000.00 pin should play well out of the box. It's not like this thing has been routed and played to hell. Isn't this why all you people play pinball? To have FUN... All I'm saying is that this machine was not fun and that's my opinion, I'm entitled to have one!

Absolutely and I'm sorry you didn't have fun on the game. Many factors play into how a game plays. Almost no game will be flawless out of the box. At the bare minimum they need to be leveled. I'd love to help the op tune it and have you give it another go.

From my personal experience, Alex know of which he speaks and is a great go to person on all things WOZ.

I'm pretty sure this is the WoOz that was at the RMPS, so this would be one of the first production games.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Is the next 12 game shipment scheduled yet?

Randy

Old school ops take games out of the box and raise the back levelers as high as possible and lower the fronts as low as possible. The might level it for floor issues once delivered and then adjust the roll tilt to prevent someone from raising the front of the game either with a 2x4 or leveler adjustment. Remember, ops need to make money.

Yeah I can def see both sides but most Op's are horrible at setting up pins and just dont care. As a new pinball maker I would make sure my pin was playing its best before I sent it out into the wild. This is where you are going to be judged. I have come to the conclusion myself that I do not judge a pin by playing it at an arcade etc (not completely anyways). But a lot of people like the op on this forum have a hard time looking past a bad setup. I almost didnt buy an AFM a few years back because I played it at an arcade and it played terribly! Went ahead and bought my own anyways and set it up right and it was night and day. What I'm saying is JJ should set these up to how he feels they play the best and send them out (because that coil setting is something new and is a nice feature). I mean you guys are the creators. You should know whats best. At least a really good starting point, especially for OP's. Anyways I havent tried a WOZ yet but the arcade here is getting one soon that I am excited about checking out. I really hope WOZ is a success because I cant wait for The Hobbit!

I thought the game was $7,500 with a early order price of $6,500.

You can have an opinion, just like they have when they respond. They got your message and are just saying that the machine may not be tuned. Many people have mentioned that every NIB machine is going to need some tweaks.

If it's not the LE, it's $7000.

The LE had 3 different prices depending on when you ordered: $6500, $7000, $7500.

Even the standard version was $6500 for a while as well.

I don't remember the LE price of $7,000. I thought it went from $6,500 to $7,500.

Yes, it went to $7000 before jumping up to the final price. Below is a quote that was at the bottom of the update that we received on June 11, 2011:

"The last day to receive the current Pre-Order Price of $6,500 is June 30th

On July 1, 2011 the Pre-Order Price will increase to $7,000

On August 1, 2011 the price will increase to $7,500"

I've been on this crazy train from the begining so I tend to remember a lot more than I should.

I don't believe that you want to start going for the right ramp until you're ready to lock some balls. I've only played about six games on it, but that is my preliminary impression of that portion of the strategy.

WOZ

A game to argue about but never ever play

Looks like its day to show us what's it's got will be here soon.

Live in Colorado Springs good to know.