Yep, that's the downfall of STLE as well, some douche giving it a 2 out of 10 and another guy 1.8 out of 10. CRAP. WOZ is a great pin it's just the theme, I always thought Evil Dead would have worked great with the layout, spinning house, evil tree's etc.

WOZ might have moved up in rank as there are now more game out there.

I would pick AC/DC against TAF any day of the week.

Please only vote on things the same way I do. Thank you

TAF is a classic. ACDC not quite in that category just yet. : P

Over 200 votes, and still neck and neck.

LoL!

Maybe if it were the original movie. But the sequel really didn't make any sense, and didn't pay much homage to the original characters, storyline and unique world. It was dark and badly-done 3D.

Music was cool. Light cycle scenes were cool (at least the first 3 hours of them).. lol

Eh, my wife and I both really loved it. But to each their own.

Just like pins.

I'm still a bit lost as to why this thread exists. It feels like WoZ owners need to reaffirm their purchase or something. The game is great, but not for everyone...Nobody gets upset or creates a thread when folks say they don't like other games like FH, TZ, CV, LotR, etc. Which, coincidentally, I don't really enjoy that much.

I think everyone feels the need to reaffirm their purchase. WOZ fans may just do it a bit more due to all the grief and ribbing they took because they had to wait for the game for 3+ years. -as they feel the need to talk the game up to justify the long wait.

Try telling someone like McCune that ACDC sucks and I'm sure you'll elicit a similar reaction - although ACDC much like WOZ certainly DOESN'T suck... Good pinball is good pinball regardless of the manufacturer.

Honestly, I don't think WOZ owners are very insecure about their games. I am not at all worried that people hate the theme or think the game sucks.

Regardless of peoples opinions, there are some facts that can't be denied. The JJP pinball platform is far superior to anything else out there. They're running true CD-quality 44.1Khz uncompressed stereo audio. Their level of control over the hardware is unparalleled at this point. Just the ability to adjust coil strengths in software allows their machines to do stuff that Stern has never done before.

For example, in WOZ, if you have haunted forest lit, and you send the ball around the orbit into the pop bumpers, you can press both flipper buttons together to deactivate the pop bumpers so the ball will more-easily fall into the collect lane. They have multi-ball modes with weak flippers or no flipper hold -- very fun and frantic. There are so many really cool things in this game that could not be done with Stern's system without major mods.

Honestly, a system that is this easy to manipulate will never hold much relevance in my eyes. Still shocked that others don't share this perspective.

So does Robin throw out the folks that rated a game a 10?

That seems to be just as much an "outlier" as someone who rates a game very low.

If not, its just adding even more subjectivity to the process....

Shouldnt everyone have that one perfect 10 game in their ratings?

Rating anything under a 3 or 4 just seems bitter.

I agree. But I didnt say a 10 is the same as a 1.... I said voting a game very low (which I would consider to be like under 5).

My only point is if they selectively throw out low scores but have no similar filter for straight 10's, then you cant say they are throwing out the extremes... just throwing out the low scores.

i think most agree the rating system (well, any rating system) will be imperfect, but this selective pruning of scores deemed too low just makes it more subjective.

Perhaps the rating scales should go from 4-10? Meh... lol...who cares

Pffft... who's ever really subjective...

When i miss 3 goddamn Super Jackpot shots in a row, I want to rate my ACDC a 1..... for about 10 seconds.... then I hit the starts button again, make the super skill shot and its a 10 again

One wouldn't have to throw out all 10's, just throw out the same number of the lows thrown out. I am not saying Robin does it this way, or does it at all, I never asked him. Just that this would be a way to do it. Drop the top 5% votes and bottom 5% and now you have a more realistic median.

once upon a time, he mentioned he either was or was going to. maybe it was just out-loud rambling.

I'd try to find where he said it, but there are so many galsh darn ratings threads, it would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

I was at the PHoF about 2 weeks ago and saw and played a WOZ for the first time.

Now I thought all of the games I played had the same general affliction, not very strong flippers. Not sure if they are set this way or the sleeves just need replacing.

So, I didn't find WOZ that great of a game...I only played 2 games. I enjoyed IM, WWF and LAH more. Not sure why, maybe it would have been more fun if I knew the rules or the flippers were a bit stronger.

Anyway, it's a pretty game and has a LOT of stuff on the playfield; but somehow I wasn't to really get into playing it.

Robert

WOZ = weak flippers isn't dead yet? If you play a WOZ and the flipper are weak, find the op and smack him. You can set them so strong you risk breaking plastics, it's a non issue.

i just feel the need to reaffirm my acceptance from everyone on pinside

i wouldn't toss out this 10

movie-10.jpg

It exists because there is a lot of irrational hate for JJP and WOZ. Hate being the key to me. Lots of people don't like themes on particular Williams games, but they don't broaden it to how all Williams games were made or all Williams games in general. Stern has had some stinkers, but people haven't written off the company or everything they manufacture. There appears to be that level of hate for JJP by some. They seem to be confusing WOZ as a first pin with JJP the entire company who is hopefully going to make a bunch of pins. Maybe it is the minority, but they're very noisy.....not sure. I don't think anyone has any problem with any differing opinion that has some thought or experience with a game behind it. Anyway - why does any thread exist I guess.

THAT^^^^^^^^^^

I don't

And this^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm a bit lost as to your point. Did you notice that the originator of this thread owns a Tron not a WOZ?

What I care about is gameplay, theme, sound, and art (gameplay being the most important). Tron is one of my favorite pins due to how fun it is to play and the theme appeals to me. While I think new code for WOZ is very well done I do not like the layout or flow one bit. Two upper playfields covering up a quarter of the upper playfield really does nothing for me. I've put in a very good number of plays and I really wanted to like it, however, after playing it extensively I've come to the conclusion that the pin and it's layout, theme, and art package is just not for me. Great code can't overcome a layout I don't enjoy.

Please no one get upset just one dudes preference we all like what we like no big deal. I should probably note, I care very little about 'ratings' and give them little to no consideration when I am playing pins or deciding which I like enough to buy.

No, but I wasn't really thinking about that. Why does it matter that it's pulled ahead of TRON of all games? It just feels arbitrary is all.

I don't think WoZ is a bad game, I just didn't have fun when I played it. I wouldn't say no to playing more of it, but I have no desire to own one.

The alleged "hate" of WOZ and JJP is way overblown by many WOZ owners. Criticism of WOZ and/or JJP does not equal hate.

WOZ and JJP HATER!!!

No problem Dude. I have a similar problem with Spiderman. I so want to like the game, love the theme, overall look of the machine and the way the playfield shoots. Just don't enjoy the rules.

No matter how good the other aspects of the game are, they can't overcome rules that I don't enjoy.

No a hater example would be like you going to every single XM thread and making it all about you and how much you hate the pin. I just realized how poorly humor comes across on a forum like this. I'm just kidding around/giving you a hard time please don't take offense.

No, it doesn't, but it's funny how the guys that have dogged WOZ for years are usually the ones who protest the most when someone claims that JJP haters actually exist.

Notice, I said JJP haters, not WOZ haters because I don't think it has as much to do with the actual game, as it does with the company and the WOZ fans that defend the company.

It's no mystery. Just go to any locked JJP thread and look at who posted inflammatory remarks and who gave those remarks a thumbs-up. Same people, thread after thread.

Edit: I gotta say though that I think it has died down and most of that stuff is in the past.

^ Don't expose RobT like that. it's bad form.

I couldn't have said it better myself… In fact I am not allowed to say this without getting a ban warning! Ohhh, it must be so nice to be a moderator!

Agreed. Their method of controlling the machine is far more superior. Using a PC based platform is pretty much industry standard for controlling machines (robots, conveyor system, auto sorters etc.) I firmly believe this type of platform is the future for pinball, it's just a matter of time before all makers move to it.

Sure, I owned a TAF, and a ACDC. My opinion is objective. I prefer ACDC PRE. No biggy. .
However, if I were collecting art and themes....TAF all day.

I guess it mattered to the OP who owns the Tron. Perhaps he can chime in as to his motivation for starting the thread.

Wow. SM has just about the best ruleset ever written! Different strokes. What's not to like?

Ah, sweet irony.

So you admit that at least I am an equal opportunity "hater", since I can do it to both Stern and JJP.

Yet, a lot of WOZ owners think I'm a Stern fanboy and hate anything to do with JJP, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Edit: BTW, X-Men blows.

Everyone nut punch Rob when you see him

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Probably because you havent played my TRON pro yet.

I don't enjoy the 3 shots, then 6 shots then 9 shots, etc...required to advance through each of the villains. Feels like chopping wood. I had someone who loved the game give me a tutorial on how to play the game, for example, gettings points by locking in shots for multipliers, etc... and honestly, I can no longer remember all the details.

Lyman has a style for making intricate rule sets that are based on scoring objectives (shot multipliers, playfield multipliers, etc.). If I hadn't been given the tutorial, I don't think the game would have given me enough guidance to discover the intricacies on my own. I tend to like seeing something new in the game more than getting a 3x shot bonus. Perhaps if there was some fanfare or indication to accompany the 3x shot bonus I would feel differently.

So, I enjoy deep games like LOTR, but for some reason don't find the style of depth in Spiderman fun.

Thank you.

Played plenty a Tron Pro in my day...great game but don;t think it'll ever reach a 10 for me.

Not "a" Tron pro, I said "my" Tron pro!

Nah, I know that some people can't wrap their head around the awesome rules of AC/DC. after all it is a very complicated game

What is funny is how the WOZ crowd conducted themselves when AC/DC was first debut , the WOZ group was laughing and pointing fingers because AC/DC looked so lame to them.

Did you guys see that AC/DC is #5 ?

So I'm assuming you Bedazzled it and dumped a case of Legos in there or something? Sprayed it with the finest French whore scent and all?

I did see that, and luckily if we've learned one thing from this thread is that ratings matter the most!

But I love Tron more than lamp!