(Topic ID: 89075)

WoZ moving up the charts (now ahead of Tron)


By rai

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 397 posts
  • 90 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by QuarterGrabber
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Linked Games

Topic poll

“Which do you prefer?”

  • Tron 139 votes
    52%
  • WoZ 118 votes
    44%
  • Both equal 11 votes
    4%

(268 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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There are 397 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 8.
#1 6 years ago

I know the top 100 is popularity contest. But can WoZ really be better than Tron? Also the statistical difference is more of a toss up, but the actual rank has WoZ moving up past Tron.

I know it's like cheese fries or apple pie ( you can like them both) and they are both different types of games.

I am posting a poll not to ask which is better, but which you prefer.

#2 6 years ago

Both great games to be sure, but with the new code, WOZ has the edge. (And I think we're talking about Tron LE here, right? I think WOZ blows away the pro version of Tron.)

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

. (And I think we're talking about TRON LE here, right? I think WOZ blows away the pro version of Tron.)

Either Tron.

Tron LE seems the same to me as Tron Pro with Eli mod.

I don't see what's so special about Tron LE moving recognizer is cool and drop targets as opposed to stand up targets but not really like Tron LE is world better than Tron pro they are 97% identical as far as game play.

#4 6 years ago

I'm certain Tron loses some points simply 'cause it's HARD. Surely you've seen less experienced players barely get a score up in three balls. Plenty of people will get owned by it on location and just walk away.

#5 6 years ago

I'm not knocking WoZ as I don't have many plays under my belt, but to me, I love Tron a lot.

Anyway it's great to see JJP and others hopefully make great games as it can only push Stern to up their game. And it's nice that Stern still offers sub-$5k games I bought Tron for $4500 iirc.

#6 6 years ago

I've only played a little WoZ, but the theme of TRON alone gives it the edge in my book.

Gameplay wise, I think WoZ has more going on in terms of modes and objectives, but I have to be in the mood for that kind of play. TRON gives me the opportunity to work towards modes (SoS and Portal) while still being a classic score based game. That's not to say I don't ENJOY a deeper mode based experience, but the way TRON integrates the two is really quite incredible.

My votes goes to TRON, but like you said OP - it's almost purely a popularity contest given that both games are great.

#8 6 years ago

Had WoZ. Gone. Had Tron. Still do!

For me, theme is a big part. Yeah, you can love a game despite theme, but it's Tron man!

WoZ definitely has the technical advantages. Lots of gorgeous visuals and a goodies.
But Tron is, to me, much more rewarding. Lots of mods to do to it which is a biggie for me. Parts readily available from any number of sources.

#9 6 years ago

Both fantastic games. Great fun to play depending on mood. Game rankings were always meaningless. The only good in them is what people say about the game. Does it sound evenhanded? Or does it sound like someone trying to manipulate the rankings? But the numbers themselves are useless. Too much manipulation from both sides.

#10 6 years ago

I think the rankings are just as likely to go down as up:

Up till now, the VAST majority of these machines have gone to home collections.... hard to imagine anyone that waited 3 years for delivery to rate it poorly after that wait! .

So, as more get into the wild, you may see less emotional reviews/ratings....

But, then again, given the amount of hate-rating that goes on, its hard to give much credence to games like this that are lightning rods for emotional opinions .

The real test will be how many Woz's go (or dont go) up for firesale once TH starts shipping.

10
#11 6 years ago

Pinside ratings are a full on sham. Woz is a decent enough game but TRON dominates its=FACT.

Tumblr_ldp096Bgdl1qzilcq.gif

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

Pinside ratings are a full on sham. Woz is a decent enough game but TRON dominates its=FACT.

FACT=OPINION

#13 6 years ago

They are completely different pinball experiences. They cannot really be compared in any reasonable manner.

The very fact that tron le is rated lower than the pro should tell you something about what "happened" with the rating system with this title. if i need to explain it to you...

#14 6 years ago

why anyone puts any credence at all in the "rankings" is beyond me... they have zero validity (for any number of reasons)....

#15 6 years ago

So if the rankings are false why have rankings?

Why are they false?

How can someone properly ascertain what the top 100 machines are anyways ?

#16 6 years ago

Not a huge fan of either theme (always watched the annual airing of WOZ in my youth, wasn't inclined to see the Tron sequel but saw the original back in the day), but I like pinball machines for the pure fun-factor of the games themselves. (Stuff like theme, # of ramps, brightness of lighting, etc. are all secondary to me.) Tron is decent (and there's little actual gameplay difference between Pro and LE; the drops don't add much and don't affect the shot layout at all!). Good flow and pretty fast. But most of it is just shooting the same few lit-insert shots to start modes and score points. For me, WOZ has a lot more pf variety, stuff like the curved rainbow standups, the exposed pop bumpers, 2 challenging mini-pfs (Munchkinland is tough if you don't crank up the flipper strength!), side shots (BALL targets and spinner, wizard saucer), etc. And the outlane save modes are pretty cool. With the current software, the game packs a ton of fun and variety in the modes too--things like the crystal ball modes (reversed flippers, no-hold flippers, etc.), witch hurry-ups, hitting rollovers to light locks, fireball and kill the witch modes, tons of stacking possibilities. The game has SO much more variety and depth than tron, in both rules and shots. Lots going on at once in WOZ--progress in many areas, real variety in modes, etc. Tron seems fairly limited/linear in shots and strategy by comparison. So, for overall fun factor and variety, WOZ definitely wins here for me.

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

So if the rankings are false why have rankings?
Why are they false?
How can someone properly ascertain what the top 100 machines are anyways ?

so that people can look down at their e-penis and feel good about themselves...

dunno... i'm guessing that 99% of people haven't played even half of the games on the list, if that...

#18 6 years ago

Poll says different=FACT

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I am posting a poll not to ask which is better, but which you prefer.

WOZ

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

So if the rankings are false why have rankings?
Why are they false?
How can someone properly ascertain what the top 100 machines are anyways ?

I think it a relative ranking, +/-15 spots for any machine in my opinion.

#21 6 years ago

The rankings don't mean a ton to me, except in broad general senses. Like does WOZ deserve to be a top 20 game? I think so. Leaving out the JJP BS, the broken lightboards, all that nonsense, the actual game is designed differently, it's not a cookie cutter. The art is legit and well done, it's full of toys and tricks to keep you guessing, has the RGB lights, etc. It's got a really deep and varied rule set now with 3.0. The LCD backglass is pretty cool. I think it's gonna look primitive once they figure out how to utilize it better, but that's okay, as new games come out you adjust the rankings. My guess is if JJP sticks around and keeps making games that WOZ starts to drop as they top it. In the meantime it's their state of the art game and has a lot put into it.

So yeah, sure, top 20, sounds fair to me.

It's just pointless to get into a comparison with any specific game. Tron is super simple compared to WOZ, sure. It's also frankly a hell of a lot of fun, with more satisfying shots than WOZ. You don't need "deep rules" to have an awesome game. Every session with a pinball doesn't have to be an epic journey. Keefer likes those. TSPP, LOTR, WOZ, that's his style. Glad we have him. But I don't always want to play a Keefer game. Sometimes I want things to be fast and simple and hard. With Tron I have to make myself stop hitting the Start button, or I'll just keep playing over and over after it continually hands me my ass. That's the mark of a good game if you ask me.

If it was as simple as "most toys and rules wins!" then the rankings would be easy enough to figure out with a slide ruler.

#22 6 years ago

I own WOZ and there is no way I would ever say it's better than Tron. It's just a different fun game but not even close to the adrenaline rushing silky smoothness of Tron.

Tron LE wins market value too. Tron LE was 5.5K new, now it's worth at least 10K. WOZ was 6.5 new to the preorder people but now it's worth 7.5? maybe? I realize they only made 400 Tron LE's but if you included all the pros it's probably close to the WOZ production. Tron Pros are up in value too. Not that value is the only measure of a good game but in this case it's something to consider.

#23 6 years ago

I can say that Rankings are pretty accurate on game 1 being better than game 100. It's still opinion, yet an opinion I often agree with once I decide for myself. I can look at rankings and say. Hmm. I've played this and like it so this one will probably be just as good. But to take two games within 2 spots on the chart and assume the difference in score couldn't possibly be the fact that someone completed their survey with a quick click to gain Pinside Karma is absurd.

#24 6 years ago

Woz is fun, but TRON is MAGIC!

#25 6 years ago

I've tried to like Tron but I just don't currently. The theme and game play don't excite me. Really love WOZ especially with the 3.0 software, gameplay, art, etc.

#26 6 years ago

After playing the WOZ 3.0 code it was really fun and felt complete. Hard to compare the games. Different layout, standard vs widebody etc. I would give Tron the edge.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from PappyBoyington:

TRON LE wins market value too. TRON LE was 5.5K new, now it's worth at least 10K. WOZ was 6.5 new to the preorder people but now it's worth 7.5? maybe? I realize they only made 400 TRON LE's but if you included all the pros it's probably close to the WOZ production. Tron Pros are up in value too. Not that value is the only measure of a good game but in this case it's something to consider.

LOL at all the value talk...not really worth considering IMO. While value is nice, it's not that indicative of a games merit in fun factor and playability. If that were the case The Shadow would be a $10k game.

#28 6 years ago

tron-daftpunk-suckitwoz.jpg

#29 6 years ago
Quoted from retired_user_101:

tron-daftpunk-suckitwoz.jpg 28 KB

Funny! I only voted to disagree because, well, I disagree.

#30 6 years ago

Haven't had enough time on WOZ.

Tron is a pure class act though. It plays great, sounds great, looks great. So it's already ahead in the sound category IMO.

#31 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Haven't had enough time on WOZ.
Tron is a pure class act though. It plays great, sounds great, looks great. So it's already ahead in the sound category IMO.

it also tastes great & is less filling

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Why are the rankings false?

Ratings are biased. It is human nature to overrate games you own in order to validate your choices, and underrate games you don't own (or would like but can't afford to own).

#33 6 years ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

Ratings are biased.

No they are not sir! How could I have bought a game NIB if it isn't the best game over made?

#34 6 years ago

The WOZ brown shirts will come and take you away if you level any negative criticism at it. I'm surprised it's not #1.

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from usandthem:

The WOZ brown shirts will come and take you away if you level any negative criticism at it. I'm surprised it's not #1.

hehehehe....

#36 6 years ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

Ratings are biased. It is human nature to overrate games you own in order to validate your choices, and underrate games you don't own (or would like but can't afford to own).

Common sense isn't it!

I couldn't stand Tron initially maybe because I just don't like the theme or the movies, well, probably because I just haven't played enough games on it, which is usually the case with most pins I end up liking. I hated Lotr and Wpt at first too. Enough people love Tron for me to know that I'd probably love it too if I had enough time on it.

Plus, I have played it at Pinballz and there are just too many other options that get my attention there!

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

While value is nice, it's not that indicative of a games merit in fun factor and playability

Yes, I agree that is why I said this "Not that value is the only measure of a good game but in this case it's something to consider" Maybe I should have said it differently?

#38 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Plus, I have played it at Pinballz and there are just too many other options that get my attention there!

Pinballz, the A.D.D. nightmare scenario

#39 6 years ago
Quoted from usandthem:

The WOZ brown shirts will come and take you away if you level any negative criticism at it. I'm surprised it's not #1.

WOZ will never be #1. Plenty of ratings manipulation to make sure of that...

Rusty-974.JPG

And of course, Godwin's Law has been invoked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

#40 6 years ago

Having owned WOZ and own tron, its a clear cut winner in tron for me. WOZ is elegant and beautiful, tron is sleak, smooth,fast and brutal. That and I am totally immersed in the game like no other game has grabbed me before.

#41 6 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

WOZ is elegant a beautiful, tron is sleak, smooth, fast and brutal. That and I am totally immersed in the game like no other game has grabbed me before.

+1

#42 6 years ago

The ratings really mean very little to me, I like reading the insightful and well thought out comments and those are easy to find! The rest, "flagged as bogus".....

#43 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I couldn't stand Tron initially maybe because I just don't like the theme or the movies, well, probably because I just haven't played enough games on it, which is usually the case with most pins I end up liking.

I was thinking the exact thing..

#44 6 years ago

You knew this would turn into a Stern vs JJP. Ugh. If TRON is rated higher than WOZ, then the Stern side will gloat and the WOZ side will say the ratings aren't reliable. The opposite is also true. The odds of someone rating TRON low just to be a hater are less likely than someone doing it to WOZ though.

Let's just say they are both great pins and you can't go wrong with either one.

For the record, WOZ gets my vote.

#45 6 years ago

ok... ok...
just to be fair, i made another version for the woz luvers
hmmmm... i wonder what else Toto is thinking in that scene? ?

woz-suck-it-tron.jpg

#46 6 years ago

I like turtles................

I_c7d8b1_201396.jpg
#47 6 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

WOZ will never be #1. Plenty of ratings manipulation to make sure of that...

And of course, Godwin's Law has been invoked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Rusty-974.JPG 10 KB

I like WOZ fine, but it's the only pin that I know of that has a thread where banishment is the punishment if you say anything negative about it. What other machine on this forum gets artificially propped up with the threat of sanctions if you don't slurp all over it?

#48 6 years ago
Quoted from usandthem:

What other machine on this forum gets artificially propped up with the thread of sanctions if you don't slurp all over it?

ACDC? Don't know aboot sanctions but that's gotta be the other side equivilant?

#49 6 years ago
Quoted from usandthem:

What other machine on this forum gets artificially propped up with the threat of sanctions if you don't slurp all over it?

What other machine on this forum gets dumped on, three years running, more than any other pin, by a factor of 100!

It doesn't really matter anymore because Woz has "scoreboard", its a great pin

#50 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

ACDC? Don't know aboot sanctions but that's gotta be the other side equivilant?

I don't know, Law. I don't think AC/DC or any other pin has a moderated thread where anything other than showering it with praise will raise a suspicious eyebrow.

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