(Topic ID: 87617)

WOZ Fan Club - members only

By TigerLaw

5 years ago

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  • 9,193 posts
  • 509 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 23 hours ago by adol75
  • Topic is favorited by 236 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

8 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #1 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by TigerLaw (5 years ago)

Post #2584 Fan Replacement details Posted by bhwolf (2 years ago)

Post #7017 How to tell if your WOZ has 2.0 boards Posted by f3honda4me (6 months ago)

Post #7022 Balls not making it to shooter lane from trough - Fix Posted by LTG (6 months ago)

Post #7126 Location of the latest software update/version Posted by mavantix (6 months ago)

Post #7128 Update 7.01 notes - released April 16, 2019 Posted by thewool (6 months ago)

Post #7752 Fan Replacement how to and links Posted by f3honda4me (4 months ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#8587 62 days ago

7.02 has the attract mode number of balls display that's coming to jjPotC. It displays the cost of the game as well as the number of balls for 1 game. We're using an extra ball (4 balls per game) to make the jump to $1.50/game or $5/4 games more palatable on jjPotC. This has enabled jjPotC to transition to the necessary higher pricing without a player backlash for us. Months after it was put out, jjPotC is still earning between 50-100% more than the next best earning game on the route I help with, and these are no slouch machines it's earning against (Deadpool Prem, Iron Maiden Prem, AfMr LE, etc). For now we have the balls/game listed on the price cards, but it's nice to get a preview of the feature up on the screen in attract mode on this WoZ update.

Now the only operator-friendly request left for Keith to drop is time of day/time of week pricing. Fingers crossed.

#8592 61 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

That’s something you can manage with Scorbit on all your games. Check it out here

Zero interest in connecting the machine to the internet to manage this simple function. Pool tables already have this feature (offline). Pinball will have it, too - without the internet.

#8594 61 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

I’m curious, why don’t you want to connect your machines ? Is it because you find it overkill for a simple feature or is it a more general fear of connecting stuff that doesnt need to be ?

Both, plus it's an unnecessary cost-add for a simple feature. I have no interest in internet competitive scoring since that's useless with mechanical pinball. Apples-to-apples competition, even on the same model machine in two places, is impossible due to wide variances in play from machine to machine.

#8605 60 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

Is there a matrix of sorts that shows the differences between Emerald, Ruby Red, 75th and YBR versions?

The important differences are:

Emerald - sparkly green color scheme, has flying monkey, no sculpted castle walls (available as a mod), LE has topper, all original castle doors, 1.0 (bad) lighting system

Ruby Red - sparkly red color scheme, has flying monkey, all original castle doors, sculpted castle walls, tornado behind house, toto figurine, different topper, EARLY ones have 1.0, most of them have superior 2.0 lighting system

YBR - sparkly yellow color scheme, different topper, no flying monkey, one less castle door, 2.0 lighting system, headphone jack moved to cab at your knees instead of on coin door.

I still think the ECLE with the 2.0 lighting system is the best version. Add the flying sculpted monkey and you have the best of all worlds.

#8622 59 days ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I'd add that the standards did not have sculpted castle walls nor the Tornado in the back, RRs included those as well as a custom Toto in the Basket figurine. ECLEs also have a wood apron with a bunch of signatures on it and direct print cabinets.

Oh, right. I almost forgot that the castle walls didn't come with the ECLEs. That's a RR plus.

Toto in the basket is kind of junky, IMO. Looks like a modder bad idea.

#8640 58 days ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

I have a earlier run WOZ standard with 5v buffered boards (first owner installed boards sent my JJP to replace original 5V boards.
I had an issue a few weeks back thought to be a bad led board under the castle playfield but I reconfigured the wires today and everything on the upper playfield now appears to be working fine.
What I am noticing, however, is that the last smaller lights on the "Follow The Yellow Brick Road" part in the middle of the playfield appear dimmer or dont match colors when it cycles through attract mode in different colors (green, dark blue, and red all match but pink, light blue, yellow, etc don't).
When starting gameplay, most of the ftybr lights appear dim while a few are brighter. (see pictures on test mode, etc for reference).
Gameplay seems otherwise normal but something with some of the led lights just seems off. Can't see any boards visibly out under the PF. Anyone experienced anything like this before or have ideas on what the issue may be?[quoted image][quoted image]

If you go into test mode and cycle through Red, Green, Blue, White do all the lights display the correct colors? If yes, you're fine. If no, you have one or more bad boards.

Also, if you re-connected the castle lights, did you re-activate the boards for the castle in the board settings system menu? That will cause weirdness, too if you forgot to tell the machine they were back in the chain.

#8642 58 days ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

Thank you. Yes, I turned the deactivated boards back on in the system menu settings. My guess is one of the led boards under the castle playfield is still the problem. I guess I'm just baffled why it almost looks normal now whereas the lights weren't even close to working correctly previously before troubleshooting.
I will check board colors in test mode when I get back home in an hour or so.

It's a serial communications system so whichever board is causing the problem is likely intermittently varying degrees of bad and that affects the lights downstream from it by differing amounts. Until it dies completely and then they're always bad, and maybe it takes another board or boards with it. 1.0 lighting system BLOWS. Trust me. I had a perfect ECLE until it wasn't, then spent over a year with a cascading problem of light boards that eventually ended up being ALL the boards in the machine had been replaced and still problems were happening. Did the 2.0 (one of the first) install and it's been rock solid ever since. I can't recommend the upgrade highly enough.

#8644 58 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Just did one of these myself - it’s a lot of work, but the instructions are good (thanks to the contributions you made).

It's not really hard at all, just time-consuming. And Butch did a great job taking the feedback from me and other early adopters to make the instructions now pretty rock-solid (as you saw).

#8647 58 days ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

Going through the settings and testing each LED, I noticed the Munchkinland arrow light and Rainbow hurry up I serts didn't light up. Wondering if the led's that feed those inserts are the issue?...

Here's my most-referred to page from the manual when I had the 1.0 system. I still have most of it memorized from the year+ trauma.

When you say rainbow hurry up, do you mean the lit letters above the RAINBOW targets?

#8650 58 days ago
Quoted from Pinkitten:

I bought my NIB WOZ in 2016, it was born in late 2015. It has the 1.1 boards, after they went from 5.0 to 7.5 volts I believe. But I don’t think mine are 2.0. They say 1.1 on them. I have about 700 plays on it, without any issues thus far. I am concerned that the 2.0 kit might become limited or difficult to get. It’s not cheap to buy the entire set of boards I imagine. I wish I had more clarity on how reliable the version 1.1, 7.5v boards are. I hear people have had issues, and others have had none. Difficult to gauge.

They will fail. Regardless of voltage, buffer, etc, the 1.x lighting systems will ALL fail prematurely because the design is inherently flawed. It's not a question of IF, but WHEN.

Get the 2.0 kit while it's still pretty cheap and your working 1.0 boards still have value to resell and offset the upgrade cost.

#8655 58 days ago
Quoted from Pinkitten:

Are these 2.0 light board kits available anywhere still? Jersey Jack is sold out.

You might have to wait a little bit, but it shouldn't be long. Call Frank at JJP tomorrow 732-364-9900 ext 1222 and ask. He can tell you how to get on a list.

#8663 58 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

what exactly is required to change these? Any soldering or just unplug and replug? Is it the same thing over and over which is time consuming or is it different things we need to do throughout the 2 days?

No soldering. Some cutting and routing wires. Drilling a little. It's very basic work, and the instructions are pretty refined now, so it shouldn't be that bad. I split it up over a few hours a day. 100% recommended conversion.

Here's the current instructions (click on pictures to load PDF). Pretty basic stuff. A lot OF it, but basic.
WOZ 2_0 Lighting Upgrade Kit Cat5 Wiring Diagram.PDFWOZ 2_0 Lighting Upgrade Kit Instructions - Apr 2019.pdfWOZ 2_0 Lighting Upgrade Kit Packing List.pdf

#8667 57 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

Here is a picture before I cable tied a few of the last of them. Installed, got it working, made sure cables had enough room. Then final cable ties.
LTG : )[quoted image]

That reminds me, I need to call my optometrist...

#8668 57 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Yep. I had two boards that needed to be replaced. Better to do the swap sooner rather than later.

Wow! Those look a lot nicer and more refined than the original ones. Well done, Butch and JJP!

Yeah, Butch really did a great job integrating all the initial feedback and adding more pictures. The instructions now are really great.

#8670 57 days ago
Quoted from mavantix:

Two posters above state they received bad 2.0 boards right out of the gate. That doesn't really bode well for an $800 FIX to a defective design in the first place.

It's a stable, well-designed fix. The 2.0 system is running on thousands of Hobbits, Dialed Ins, PotCs, and Wonkas (in aggregate) with nothing like the mess of problems the 1.0 system had in WoZ.

#8677 57 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

Same here, my 7,5V boards work like a charme so I see no reason to upgrade. I will consider it once/if one of my main board dies, at that point the 800 will sound much more justified versus replacing a dead board.
So in between I'm gathering knowledge on switching to 2.0, because it looks quite daunting, especially with my limited skills.

There is no "if" to it. ALL 1.0 systems will fail because it's a bad design where failure is inherent.

And if you wait too long, the $800 price will likely be gone (Jack has said the price will go up) and the resale market for 1.0 boards will have dried up, so a much more expensive proposition. Right now a completely stable 2.0 system proven on 4 machines costs a little more than a ColorDMD upgrade (after you sell the 1.0 boards) and you end up knowing it will last, unlike the 1.0 system that will absolutely 100% fail prematurely.

#8681 56 days ago
Quoted from mdelorenzo:

Since it has been mentioned a couple times about the 100% chance of failure, does anyone know the technical reasons why? Especially from an official source? I feel like I've never seen it.
I'm not saying the problem isn't there at all but I'd like to know the actual reasons.

You will never see it officially stated publicly. Liability.

But people involved have talked about the core design of the 1.x (all flavors, none of the band-aid 1.1, 1.2, etc fixes actually work long-term because the core DESIGN is bad) system being flawed and broken. Hence the reason JJP moved on with the 2.0 system from RR WoZ onward without lighting issues.

Quoted from bobukcat:

I feel like this is just getting to the point of beating a horse to death on the subject of light boards, failure modes and if you should or not replace the system.

Only because some people continue to believe that it's an "IF" as to whether their currently rock-solid 1.x system will fail when there's no "IF" about it. It WILL fail prematurely, but people whose WoZ 1.x is currently fully working are just not believing that's possible, when in fact, it's inevitible based on the flawed design.

#8683 56 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

what I'm discussing is the assumption that all of them will die, I do not believe that

Exhibit A.

They WILL all die prematurely. The design is flawed. People involved in it have said it. It will never be said publicly. But this is the last time I will say it. It's enough.

#8703 55 days ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

My lights have been out for 6 months. Because of a faulty light design, why do I HAVE TO PAY 800 to fix JJP’s problem?

You can fix the rest by bypassing the bad light board. Why wouldn't you do that?

#8704 55 days ago
Quoted from Pinkitten:

Free repairs? Auto manufactures issue recalls when they realize a defective design. Those are usually free. This is a defective light board. Even if the labor is on us owners, the correct light boards should be free to anyone who bought a NIB WOZ. Just my opinion.

Pfft. Most auto manufacturers have SOME defective component (or a major component, hello Ford transmissions) that they know will fail prematurely. If it fails outside warranty the BEST you can hope for is some consideration of the cost of replacement. Ford Taurus transmissions failed regularly just outside warranty. In their quest to hit mileage standards, Honda made millions of Odysseys with leaky cylinder rings that caused them to eat a quart or more of oil a month. They had a limited recall when FORCED to, but the majority of these were not covered as an actual defect. There are thousands of examples like these in autos.

The auto industry is not what you want to point to as the altruistic answer to issues of premature failure out of warranty.

#8708 54 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

Vireland - I would suggest that you stop blindly supporting what is an obvious FU to consumers that paid for a failed design. I really have a hard time respecting someone that is willing to be sh*t on by a company (regardless of their size) and I know you contribute a lot to these boards and in a positive way but this is just way beneath you. Enough.

Look, I'm not happy about the situation at JJP or Stern, but people that are pulling examples out of their butts for OTHER INDUSTRIES that just completely FALL APART on closer examination should not be allowed to let that pass (i.e. the WoZ light comparison. That level of premature failure outside of warranty happens ALL THE TIME in the Auto industry. They only own up when they are forced to by the government). If people make fair comparisons? I'm there. Pulling irrelevant, false examples out of their butts? Nope.

1 week later
#8737 42 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

Is it documented anywhere as to what the differences are between the Emerald version and the Green (Automated) version. I know the Emerald has the wooden apron and the Green has the 2.0 Light boards as well as a decal cabinet. What other differences are there?

I don't think any of the standard green ones with the stainless rails shipped with the 2.0 lighting, and all the ECLE with the green powdercoated rails are 1.x boards. The 2.0 transition didn't happen until partway into the Ruby Red 75th pin run, AFAIK.

#8748 41 days ago
Quoted from rrosenhouse:

Copyright belongs to WMS?

I doubt Williams copyrighted it. There was a TON of assets from the Bally/Williams days that never had copyrights filed, so while the copyright was theirs when it was created, they couldn't sue and get statutory damages, attorney fees, and costs when infringed because it wasn't registered before infringement. From the copyright.gov site:

"When registration is made prior to infringement or within three months after publication of a work, a copyright owner is eligible for statutory damages, attorneys’ fees, and costs."

Rick probably just asked them to stop.

#8754 40 days ago
Quoted from FalconDriver:

Hope to join club soon. Can anyone tell me
if the new run of RR suppose taking place this year have the monkey mech? I assume no
as much discussion on the YBR will not.

We don't know, but the assumption is no because they're using cabs that don't have the extra room needed for the mech. I *hope* it does have it like the other RR ones because removing that sucks for new buyers. It's a neat feature.

#8763 40 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I think a black wicked witch WOZ version is next.
Focusing on flying monkeys, the wicked witch and weaponized tin man, scarecrow and lion.

A black version with new "dark side" art on the cabinet, a new great topper design, and black sparkle armor with neon green accents would be amazing, especially if they direct printed the cabs again. Not gonna happen, but it would be amazing.

1 week later
#8840 31 days ago
Quoted from Gotfrogs:

I think I recall seeimg some links posted before but what PC motherboard are people buying as a replacement or a backup?


#8846 30 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

I'm only seeing used ones for sale now. Are there any better options?

Ebay has used for $40 and up. Newegg has new ones for like $150. They're out there.

#8848 30 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

I'll recheck Newegg. I though it listed them as out of stock.

Just checked. It's not newegg themselves but a newegg seller. There are two vendors with new boards @$168 and two with used boards @ $66.

#8856 29 days ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Found an error in my 2.0 light system last night. Either the castle cables were labeled wrong or the rgb cable map is printed wrong. Either way, it resulted in my wiring the lights for the search insert and the adjacent gi light backwards. This explains why my search insert had been lit constantly since the conversion! (Wasn't there someone else here who was having this issue?) Heads up to those who follow. I recommend holding off on fully reinstalling the castle playfield until you can test to ensure that everything is correct in test mode.

I vaguely remember making this mistake when I did it, too, but I tested each insert before re-attaching the upper playfield because it's such an uncooperative bitch. Caught and corrected it there.

#8930 23 days ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

I'm sure there are other motherboards you can use that are around the same age. I'm by no means a computer science expert, but It really depends on the kernel of Linux they used and library dependencies.
Its the same thing with RFM, you can't buy a pc today and expect it to work. unless you find a slightly older kernel that works with both hardware/software dependencies. That is unless you can reverse engineer the JJP WOZ build and compile it with another more recent version of whatever it is they are using.

It's the kernel and motherboard chipset that matter the most. But the further we get away from the chipset in WoZ and its successor in Hobbit with Intel chipsets (Intel H61 in WoZ, Intel H81 Express in Hobbit and after), the more likely it will be that a board will not work or may work with issues.

1 week later
#8981 12 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

I have a (minor) problem installing the 2.0 kit. I’m at mounting the BAG board on the bracket. The instructions says to tighten firmly the board but I cant because of the big white connector at the bottom, the solder parts are too long.
Do I need to get some spacers or do I need to mount it on the other side that has spacers ?[quoted image][quoted image]

You absolutely need spacers. The instructions show nylon spacers for each screw attaching the board to the bracket. Page 2 of the packing list also clearly shows that board with the spacers already attached to it.

Fortunately, I'm sure Ace Hardware will have something that will work for less than a buck total tomorrow.

(Click on the image below to see the full packing list PDF)
WOZ 2_0 Lighting Upgrade Kit Packing List.pdf

#8991 11 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

The moment I realize I need a break.
My power supply doesnt have the short wire between -V and GND, so I was about to take my car and go back to the hardware store, slightly cursing on myself for another ride.
I went to get my keys on the table and saw this....[quoted image]

Yeah, that's exactly where the jumper sire for mine came from.

new_power_supply_wiring (resized).jpg
#8992 11 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

Just reading your updates I'm shaking my head saying wow jjp wtf. Who wants to spend time on this. Such a shame.
Good luck though looks like you're getting through and almost done

If you're into electronics, it's actually not that bad, and if you're NOT into electronics, you might be by the time you get done. The instructions are well-written enough that pretty much anyone can do this now. Totally worth it.

#9023 10 days ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Did you see the picture I posted with the holes circled (not sure if you're mobile or not)? Remove the plastic that covers that area, remove the screw holding the ball guide down and then push the ball guide inward towards the middle of the PF (or to the right if you prefer) slowly and you will see another hole there. Hold the ball guide in place above that hole and fasten it down with the same screw. You can now move the post to the right hole and then re-install the plastic.
I don't remember if the Topper LED strip is 6 or 12 VDC but I bet @LTG or @pinballomatic knows.

Pretty sure it's all 12v.

#9049 10 days ago
Quoted from fnosm:

I just push the tip through the hole and using the flesh of my thumb rub the nub back and forth till it pops through.

And then a cold shower? Or does it progress from there?

#9087 8 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

Ok I’m about to turn the game on again, I swear I’ve never been that scared of pressing a button in my entire life.
Whoever reads this, please cross fingers with me !

I've called on a higher power to take a few moments away from having his hands full with the Christian and Kurdish SDF fighters in Syria to watch over the button press...
the-lord-watches (resized).jpeg

#9089 8 days ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

I believe the majority are Sunni.

Clarified, but a long row to hoe for a one-off.

#9098 8 days ago
Quoted from BigT:

I just turned on my WOZRR and I have the skittles lightening happening. I am guessing I have a board going bad? How do I diagnose?[quoted image]

You'll eventually have this memorized if you have the 1.xx light system, but here's the order of the boards. Go into LED test mode. Then using this diagram, starting at board 1, follow until you find the first light mis-colored OR the one BEFORE the first light that's out. Then jumper OVER that board, skipping from the output of the board before it to the input of the board after it. If the problem is a castle light, just skip over the castle entirely (all lights) while diagnosing. Then REMOVE THAT BOARD (or boards if you skipped over the castle) FROM THE LIGHTING LIST ON THE SYSTEM MENU or the coloring will still be messed up.

Repeat until clear.

#9110 5 days ago
Quoted from LukyDuck:

5 days old and my RR is already down. OZ Lang sling shot rubber snapped. No spare came with the game.
Where do you you recommend ordering spares from? Can you purchase a kit with all of the usual rubbers?
New to pinball so looking for options and recommendations.
Thanks[quoted image][quoted image]

Marco specialties white rubber. The only choice. Literally all other white I've tried is crap compared to theirs.

No idea where in the world you are, but if you're in the US, there might be a pinsider that would cover you until your marco order comes in and you can give one back. If you were local to me I'd definitely get you the rubber that broke so you don't have to wait until your order comes in (especially with monday being a postal holiday).

#9118 5 days ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Here is a screenshot pic:[quoted image]

Yeah, even with textures/painting added, the shapes and details on the huts are wrong. Looks more like a Sanrio toy.

#9123 5 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

You really think we're going to get sales like Sanrio?! I don't think we can keep up.

Don't get too crazy. You haven't even shown the product yet. No way to know what this looks like when printed.

#9131 5 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

ltg Since you’re here can you help me with my 2.0 tin man ?
All the led plugged to J102 dont light. I checked them on another board they work and I tried reseating the cable but no luck.
Is there anything else I should try or is the board dead ?[quoted image]

Is the little green LED on the back side of the board lit where the power (not ethernet) connector plugs into that board?

#9133 5 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

Yes the led is lit. And the other ones plugged to the other port work well.

If the green power LED is lit on the board, it's either a bad board or bad Ethernet cable. Do you have access to an ethernet cable tester? Or, failing that, some ethernet cables you can swap in to see if it's a cable issue?

#9145 4 days ago
Quoted from darkryder:

Good to know, but I didn’t order the pincup as I don’t drink when playing or care for the look. That mini corn field mod looks interesting, though. Lots of mod potential with this game, one could get really crazy and add thousands in mods. Reminds me of Tron, self control is a must

One airball and that corn is harvested with prejudice. Way too delicate to put under glass, IMO.

#9147 4 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

If you can get an airball to hit those and break them I'll send you a replacement set for free, for life.
But only to the original owner.

What's this "only to the original owner" crap? Weren't you just on the other end of that?

#9149 4 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I'm mean, pretty much anything I make I'd help fix or replace if there was some issue done without malice.

Well, now you've taken all the fun out of it. This IS a game with a malevolent witch loose...

#9179 2 days ago
Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

I am about to embark on upgrading my WOZ to lighting 2.0, I did read somewhere that there is an updated v2.0 install instructions (with errors removed) does anyone know where I can get this?

Sent you a PM.

#9185 1 day ago
Quoted from LukyDuck:

Is there a way to turn off the castle doors since one of mine is not working?
I searched thru the menu options and did not find a setting to turn them off. I have opened a service ticket with JJP and my distributor.

Unplug the switches so they don't register hits? Put one or two sling rubber over them at ball level? Think like an operator!

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