(Topic ID: 87617)

WOZ Fan Club - members only

By TigerLaw

8 years ago


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#12701 9 months ago

little problem with my woz, crystal ball upkicker goes bananas when i turn on game. and during gameplay ball shot in crystal ball , goes in hole and does nothing. no crystal ball mode... in test mode trees vibration triggers upkicker..

#12702 9 months ago
Quoted from gmanrulz46:

little problem with my woz, crystal ball upkicker goes bananas when i turn on game. and during gameplay ball shot in crystal ball , goes in hole and does nothing. no crystal ball mode... in test mode trees vibration triggers upkicker..

Did you check the switch test? Sounds like the opto in the bottom of the hole isn't aligned or is dirty. This behavior is symptomatic of either that opto being disconnected/broken or not aligned/dirty.

#12703 9 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Did you check the switch test? Sounds like the opto in the bottom of the hole isn't aligned or is dirty. This behavior is symptomatic of either that opto being disconnected/broken or not aligned/dirty.

thanks for your help .. now here is a dumb question. what does an opto look like?

#12704 9 months ago
Quoted from gmanrulz46:

thanks for your help .. now here is a dumb question. what does an opto look like?

I can take a pic shortly. Look under the playfield. There are two little plastic pieces attached to either side of the metal "hole" where the ball sits. There is a UV light beam that shoots across the hole and when the ball goes in there it breaks the beam. On the inside of each of those plastic pieces are the transmitter and receiver that are basically little LED bulbs. Easy way to find them is by tracing the wires, see the attached diagram.

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#12705 9 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I can take a pic shortly. Look under the playfield. There are two little plastic pieces attached to either side of the metal "hole" where the ball sits. There is a UV light beam that shoots across the hole and when the ball goes in there it breaks the beam. On the inside of each of those plastic pieces are the transmitter and receiver that are basically little LED bulbs. Easy way to find them is by tracing the wires, see the attached diagram. [quoted image]

i was in switch test mode.. crystal ball vuk was light green .. should it be?

#12706 9 months ago
Quoted from gmanrulz46:

i was in switch test mode.. crystal ball vuk was light green .. should it be?

It should be bright yellow if nothing is in the hole. It's an opto that would normally closed (meaning the beam is unbroken, the circuit is closed). Green means it is active. Make sure they optos are both in place and not jostled or misaligned, they are clean and that they are plugged in (follow the wires). Make sure none of the wires are pulled out of the optos or plug end. I would unplug and re-plug it in, as well. If none of that does it then opto is probably bad and JJP can get you a new one for not much.

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#12707 9 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

It should be bright yellow if nothing is in the hole. It's an opto that would normally closed (meaning the beam is unbroken, the circuit is closed). Green means it is active. Make sure they optos are both in place and not jostled or misaligned, they are clean and that they are plugged in (follow the wires). Make sure none of the wires are pulled out of the optos or plug end. I would unplug and re-plug it in, as well. If none of that does it then opto is probably bad and JJP can get you a new one for not much. [quoted image]

thanks for your help mr houdini....

#12708 9 months ago

Want to buy a few 100% working WOZ 7.5V rev 1.4 GI boards. Looking for GI boards mostly but open to larger boards and cable/connectors as well. I had a couple GI boards go out recently. A fellow local pinsider (GRB1959 awesome guy) helped me out and got me up and running. I have a 2.0 kit on order but wont get till the end of the year. Please let me know if you have boards to sell. Thank You

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#12709 9 months ago

Question:
The 7.03 sw version is declared with 'YBR Models Must Use This Version!'
Can i use the version for an ECLEWOZ ?
Someone here who use it already with his green beauty?
THX.

#12710 9 months ago
Quoted from waynetrane:

Question:
The 7.03 sw version is declared with 'YBR Models Must Use This Version!'
Can i use the version for an ECLEWOZ ?
Someone here who use it already with his green beauty?
THX.

Yes, I have a WOZECLE and have been running the 7.03 version of the software since June 3, 2021, and haven't had any issues.

Gord

#12711 9 months ago
Quoted from waynetrane:

The 7.03 sw version is declared with 'YBR Models Must Use This Version!'
Can i use the version for an ECLEWOZ ?

Yes. It is used on all models. Your dongle sorts out what your particular game needs.

LTG : )

#12712 9 months ago

Hey guys, I'm sure this question has been covered many times over, but I've been out of the scene for a few years. When I purchased my WoZ years back, I contacted JJP support about my light boards lighting up and flashing colors rapidly and essentially freezing in that state. I was told at the time it was a lose connection on one of the boards. I've since checked every connection on all the light boards and they were fine. But coming back to the pinball scene I noticed there is now a WoZ Lighting Upgrade kit for $800 (linked below and out of stock). Is this the fix for that issue and was this not covered by JJP for original buyers? I wasn't sure if there was some communication that went out saying this was covered under warranty or something.

http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Parts/Wizard-of-Oz-Parts/WOZ-Lighting-Upgrade-Kit.html

#12713 9 months ago

I'm picking up a first run WOZ. How do I get a set of the new light boards?

#12714 9 months ago
Quoted from Methos:

I'm picking up a first run WOZ. How do I get a set of the new light boards?

Contact Nate at JJP and get on the waiting list.

LTG : )

#12715 9 months ago
Quoted from Glarrownage:

I wasn't sure if there was some communication that went out saying this was covered under warranty or something.

Not covered under warranty.

Quoted from Glarrownage:

I contacted JJP support about my light boards lighting up and flashing colors rapidly and essentially freezing in that state.

Try treating like a failed light board. Find the last one in the chain that is working. The first board after it is the defective board. Try by passing it.

LTG : )

#12716 9 months ago

Following up on where I am with my project woz. I have had a few emails with Ken at JJP support. He added me to the list for light boards. I don't know if I need them or not at this point but a couple were removed and they are the original style. So I am leaning towards at least some are in need of replacement.

The security dongle it sounds like is not something that is commonly replaced. Once their service manager returns from vacation next week they will ask about it.

A replacement PC from JJP is 299. I may order that at the same time as the dongle assuming the dongle can be ordered.

#12717 9 months ago
Quoted from DudeRegular:

The security dongle it sounds like is not something that is commonly replaced.

Something wrong with yours ? It should be sticking out the back of the metal box plugged into the motherboard area.

It knows your game and serial number. Your game won't boot without it.

LTG : )

#12718 9 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

Something wrong with yours ? It should be sticking out the back of the metal box plugged into the motherboard area.
It knows your game and serial number. Your game won't boot without it.
LTG : )

I bought a non-working game from a buddy. He got it from an operator that was clearing out a bunch of inventory. The PC is gone completely and there is no security dongle to be found. The operator was taking a look around, but honestly they cleared out so much stuff to a number of buyers, that I don't have any real hope it would turn up there. The mini playfields are present, but not installed in the machine. There are some other parts either missing or taken off the game. First step for me is getting a PC and dongle so I can start the assembly and troubleshooting process.

#12719 9 months ago

I ran into this issue and thought that the only viable solution was buying the lighting upgrade kit and spending a lot of hours on the project. However, I was able to isolate the GI board that was causing the malfunction by going through the LED test menu. When you select the culprit board, it will cause the lighting abnormality you describe in your post.

They can be purchased here:
http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Parts/Wizard-of-Oz-Parts/General-Illumination-7-5-volt-Wizard-of-Oz.html

Make sure you have the right voltage though.

Takes about 5-10 minutes to install. It's not a permanent fix as has been mentioned multiple times on this thread but I have found that it is far easier and cheaper.

Quoted from Glarrownage:

Hey guys, I'm sure this question has been covered many times over, but I've been out of the scene for a few years. When I purchased my WoZ years back, I contacted JJP support about my light boards lighting up and flashing colors rapidly and essentially freezing in that state. I was told at the time it was a lose connection on one of the boards. I've since checked every connection on all the light boards and they were fine. But coming back to the pinball scene I noticed there is now a WoZ Lighting Upgrade kit for $800 (linked below and out of stock). Is this the fix for that issue and was this not covered by JJP for original buyers? I wasn't sure if there was some communication that went out saying this was covered under warranty or something.
http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Parts/Wizard-of-Oz-Parts/WOZ-Lighting-Upgrade-Kit.html

#12720 9 months ago
Quoted from DwightEisenhower:

I ran into this issue and thought that the only viable solution was buying the lighting upgrade kit and spending a lot of hours on the project. However, I was able to isolate the GI board that was causing the malfunction by going through the LED test menu. When you select the culprit board, it will cause the lighting abnormality you describe in your post.
They can be purchased here:
http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Parts/Wizard-of-Oz-Parts/General-Illumination-7-5-volt-Wizard-of-Oz.html
Make sure you have the right voltage though.
Takes about 5-10 minutes to install. It's not a permanent fix as has been mentioned multiple times on this thread but I have found that it is far easier and cheaper.

I kept replacing the GIs board which was quick and cheap, but then one of my big boards died and replacing it was 300$, so I went with the 2.0 light kit and have lived happily ever after

#12721 9 months ago
Quoted from DwightEisenhower:

I ran into this issue and thought that the only viable solution was buying the lighting upgrade kit and spending a lot of hours on the project. However, I was able to isolate the GI board that was causing the malfunction by going through the LED test menu. When you select the culprit board, it will cause the lighting abnormality you describe in your post.
They can be purchased here:
http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Parts/Wizard-of-Oz-Parts/General-Illumination-7-5-volt-Wizard-of-Oz.html
Make sure you have the right voltage though.
Takes about 5-10 minutes to install. It's not a permanent fix as has been mentioned multiple times on this thread but I have found that it is far easier and cheaper.

Quoted from adol75:

I kept replacing the GIs board which was quick and cheap, but then one of my big boards died and replacing it was 300$, so I went with the 2.0 light kit and have lived happily ever after

So you guys are both saying that I could replace the bad board, but the root problem still exists and the only long-term fix is the $800 kit? If so, that makes sense. If you don't mind me asking, what is the root cause that causes the issue with the boards? I appreciate the responses, thank you!

I'm a little frustrated my initial inquiry to JJP years ago was brushed off when there was a known issue. But, considering this is Pinside, I'll skip the rant as I'm sure it's been expressed many times over.

#12722 9 months ago
Quoted from Glarrownage:

So you guys are both saying that I could replace the bad board, but the root problem still exists and the only long-term fix is the $800 kit? If so, that makes sense. If you don't mind me asking, what is the root cause that causes the issue with the boards? I appreciate the responses, thank you!
I'm a little frustrated my initial inquiry to JJP years ago was brushed off when there was a known issue. But, considering this is Pinside, I'll skip the rant as I'm sure it's been expressed many times over.

Im a fairly early NIB adopter with first run 7.5v boards. I waited years to get this game.

My ECLEWOZ has had the rainbow board and 5 of the little GI boards go out, but nothing else.

I have a couple sets of 7.5 boards from 2.0 upgraders. Good cheap insurance for sure.

Its been rock solid for years.

I havent had any trouble with light boards in the last 3 years of fairly continuous play.

I may upgrade the wal-nuts under the playfield to lev-r-nuts just for future durability.

It did wonders on my Houdini.

The castle playfield however can be a menace that only patience and a few spare parts can sort out. Mostly burned out motors.

Pinballgoddess has really put it thru its paces lol.

Once its dialled in however, it works really well and is a joy to play with.

My WOZ has been a solid as any pinball machine in my small collection and always is just amazing to play.

#12723 9 months ago
Quoted from Glarrownage:

So you guys are both saying that I could replace the bad board, but the root problem still exists and the only long-term fix is the $800 kit? If so, that makes sense. If you don't mind me asking, what is the root cause that causes the issue with the boards? I appreciate the responses, thank you!
I'm a little frustrated my initial inquiry to JJP years ago was brushed off when there was a known issue. But, considering this is Pinside, I'll skip the rant as I'm sure it's been expressed many times over.

The pre-2.0 boards are flawed and subject to static damage and possibly other issues. Every year, during the winter, when the weather got dry, I would have a couple GI boards go bad. Even though JJP was great and covered them well after warranty, I eventually got sick of replacing them and upgraded.

#12724 9 months ago
Quoted from Glarrownage:

So you guys are both saying that I could replace the bad board, but the root problem still exists and the only long-term fix is the $800 kit? If so, that makes sense. If you don't mind me asking, what is the root cause that causes the issue with the boards? I appreciate the responses, thank you!
I'm a little frustrated my initial inquiry to JJP years ago was brushed off when there was a known issue. But, considering this is Pinside, I'll skip the rant as I'm sure it's been expressed many times over.

I got tired of replacing them and I felt worried everytime I was turning the game on. I wouldn't have minded that much if I had one light off but because they are chained everytime a GI dies you lose pretty much the whole light show.

I ordered a 2.0 woz from the pinball company but got fooled and received a 1.1 which was very frustrating but NIB RR where hard to find so I bit the bullet and kept it.

I know some people never had issues with their 7,5v lights but getting the 2.0 kit was the best thing I could do, peace of mind has no price. In the end it was 800$ - 300$ I sold my old boards for. Since I needed to buy a 300$ board to replace my dead one, the 2.0 kit cost me 200$, it's a steal.

#12725 9 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Im a fairly early NIB adopter with first run 7.5v boards. I waited years to get this game.
My ECLEWOZ has had the rainbow board and 5 of the little GI boards go out, but nothing else.
I have a couple sets of 7.5 boards from 2.0 upgraders. Good cheap insurance for sure.
Its been rock solid for years.
I havent had any trouble with light boards in the last 3 years of fairly continuous play.
I may upgrade the wal-nuts under the playfield to lev-r-nuts just for future durability.
It did wonders on my Houdini.
The castle playfield however can be a menace that only patience and a few spare parts can sort out. Mostly burned out motors.
Pinballgoddess has really put it thru its paces lol.
Once its dialled in however, it works really well and is a joy to play with.
My WOZ has been a solid as any pinball machine in my small collection and always is just amazing to play.

I thought the better insurance is having 2.0 boards.

The supply of early boards is dwindling, and old boards are not being remade.

I'd rather have the same upgrade that JJP chose to make if parts are needed in the future.

The cost of the upgrade is not wasted - it will add value because fewer people want a game with old boards.

#12726 9 months ago
Quoted from RTS:

I thought the better insurance is having 2.0 boards.
The supply of early boards is dwindling, and old boards are not being remade.
I'd rather have the same upgrade that JJP chose to make if parts are needed in the future.
The cost of the upgrade is not wasted - it will add value because fewer people want a game with old boards.

I agree. But i have several sets of original boards and cables.

So im good to go for a long long time.

Pinballgoddess has mentioned that she might be buried in the game as she wants to take it with her to the afterlife.

Its a goddess thing... lol.

#12727 9 months ago

What are some of the extra parts that one should have with the game? Just picked one up and I see that there are still a great deal of parts available from JJP, but they won't last long. Any recommendations on mechs/etc that have a short life within the game that I should stock up on?

#12728 9 months ago
Quoted from Methos:

What are some of the extra parts that one should have with the game? Just picked one up and I see that there are still a great deal of parts available from JJP, but they won't last long. Any recommendations on mechs/etc that have a short life within the game that I should stock up on?

Door motor. Playfield. Maybe witch motor and rod. Crystal ball screen and card.

In my time owning the only issue I've really experienced and mostly read about are the light boards. Most everything else is pretty solid or generic enough to easily replace.

#12729 9 months ago
Quoted from Glarrownage:

So you guys are both saying that I could replace the bad board, but the root problem still exists and the only long-term fix is the $800 kit? If so, that makes sense. If you don't mind me asking, what is the root cause that causes the issue with the boards? I appreciate the responses, thank you!
I'm a little frustrated my initial inquiry to JJP years ago was brushed off when there was a known issue. But, considering this is Pinside, I'll skip the rant as I'm sure it's been expressed many times over.

The biggest issue with all the 1.x lighting systems is that they are serial data connected, this means that one bad board can affect every other board after it in the chain. The 2.0 system does not rely on serial communication so even if one board fails (other than the main control or BAG board, of course) the rest continue to work. I kept replacing GI boards until it happened during league play and I had to turn the game off and remove it because it was essentially unplayable at that point, I did the 2.0 upgrade after that.

#12730 9 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Door motor. Playfield. Maybe witch motor and rod. Crystal ball screen and card.
In my time owning the only issue I've really experienced and mostly read about are the light boards. Most everything else is pretty solid or generic enough to easily replace.</blockquote
I have had mine since new, 2014. I have replaced 2 spinning house motors. Extra set of Ruby Red flippers would be good, too.

Door motor. Playfield. Maybe witch motor and rod. Crystal ball screen and card.
In my time owning the only issue I've really experienced and mostly read about are the light boards. Most everything else is pretty solid or generic enough to easily replace.

I have had mine, nib, since 2014. Replaced 2 spinning house motors. Check the diodes on the motor. If they flatten out, I believe they help short out the motor. Easy to flatten them. Good preventative maintenance.

#12731 9 months ago

I'm in the club. After many months of searching for the right game, finally got my EC with upgraded 2.0 boards and Gouveia's monkey and Witch 2.0 with many other mods today. Can't wait to play it!

#12732 9 months ago
Quoted from HIPPY:

I have had mine, nib, since 2014. Replaced 2 spinning house motors. Check the diodes on the motor. If they flatten out, I believe they help short out the motor. Easy to flatten them. Good preventative maintenance.

Good to know

#12733 9 months ago

I have a set of 7.5v led boards minus two GIs and I think the rainbow board is suspect. Game had flicker issues and already had two GIs bypassed so I bit the bullet and installed 2.0
The vast majority of these boards are good but are being sold as-is. $350 plus shipping buys them all and any associated extra data or power cables you want (I think I cut out just 1)

Added 9 months ago:

Set sale no longer possible - Some boards already sold. Selling them ala-carte (see post on next page)

#12734 9 months ago
Quoted from fossmin:

I'm in the club. After many months of searching for the right game, finally got my EC with upgraded 2.0 boards and Gouveia's monkey and Witch 2.0 with many other mods today. Can't wait to play it!

Welcome to the club fossmin! Glad you were able to snag one with with all accouterments! I've also heard tell that a pinsider who has long been searching for a flying monkey...has finally found one. Will update when it arrives.

#12735 9 months ago

I need your expertise friends…

As some of you may know I’ve been desperately searching for a flying monkey. I’ve installed that monkey today.

After putting back together the single castle door it is binding and will not shut or open on it’s own now. I first noticed when reconnecting the spring to the door that it didn’t pull it shut. I confirmed that the wire guide was no longer hitting the door, but it still does not move freely on it’s own. I’m not sure if while bending the wire form I put pressure on the door or changed it’s height etc. Although the motor would initially open the door, now it is neither opening or closing on its own. The motor still works, but there is too much resistance to push it open, and too much resistance for the spring to pull it closed.

Before ripping everything down does anyone have some advice on what could be causing the door to bind? I know I’ll have to take the playfield off but would like an idea of what I’m really looking for before I get too deep.

Thanks

Nick

#12736 9 months ago

Hi Nick,

I had the same problem on my WOZECLE and I had to remove the castle playfield and the motor for the single castle door and then I removed the door post by loosening the set screw. After doing this re-install the door post and tighten the set screw and then install the single castle door to the door post and make sure that the bottom of the door has about the width of a credit card clearance with the playfield so that it doesn't bind.

Re-install the castle playfield and test the single door via the game diagnostics. WOZECLE can be a bit fussy on the placement of the single castle door onto the motor post which spins the door. Initially I was able to test mine, but it didn't seem to have enough power to open the door and after performing the above steps with the now tightened set screw it works perfectly.

This is actually a pretty common problem on WOZECLE when the set screw is a little loose and the door slips on the door post or slightly changes position.

Gord

WOZ Castle PF Removal.pdf
WOZ_Single_Castle_Door_Assembly.pdf

#12737 9 months ago
Quoted from GRB1959:

Hi Nick,
I had the same problem on my WOZECLE and I had to remove the castle playfield and the motor for the single castle door and then I removed the door post by loosening the set screw. After doing this re-install the door post and tighten the set screw and then install the single castle door to the door post and make sure that the bottom of the door has about the width of a credit card clearance with the playfield so that it doesn't bind.
Re-install the castle playfield and test the single door via the game diagnostics. WOZECLE can be a bit fussy on the placement of the single castle door onto the motor post which spins the door. Initially I was able to test mine, but it didn't seem to have enough power to open the door and after performing the above steps with the now tightened set screw it works perfectly.
This is actually a pretty common problem on WOZECLE when the set screw is a little loose and the door slips on the door post or slightly changes position.
Gord
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Thanks! I must have moved its position when trying to bend the guide rail. It’s always something with this damn hobby. Appreciate the insight Gord!

Nick

#12738 9 months ago
Quoted from John_in_NC:

I have a set of 7.5v led boards minus two GIs and I think the rainbow board is suspect. Game had flicker issues and already had two GIs bypassed so I bit the bullet and installed 2.0
The vast majority of these boards are good but are being sold as-is. $350 plus shipping buys them all and any associated extra data or power cables you want (I think I cut out just 1)

OBO, these are useless to me other than to recoup some of what I had to put into the 2.0. Will sell boards individually 50c on the dollar.

Update GIs are 7.5v Rev 1.3 big boards are 7.5v rev 1.1

Added 9 months ago:

See ala-carte pricing for remaining boards next page

#12739 9 months ago
Quoted from John_in_NC:

OBO, these are useless to me other than to recoup some of what I had to put into the 2.0. Will sell boards individually 50c on the dollar

Hey buddy!
I may take you up on some at some point. I ended up with the WoZ Robert got from your group buy. I have the PC and security coming as they were missing. I can't really test or troubleshoot anything right now though.

#12740 9 months ago
Quoted from DudeRegular:

Hey buddy!
I may take you up on some at some point. I ended up with the WoZ Robert got from your group buy. I have the PC and security coming as they were missing. I can't really test or troubleshoot anything right now though.

I'd recommend 2.0 for that game. Too many unknowns with how it was apparently cannibalized.

#12741 9 months ago
Quoted from John_in_NC:

I'd recommend 2.0 for that game. Too many unknowns with how it was apparently cannibalized.

I am on the 2.0 list. JJP said it would likely not be available until the very end of the year though.

#12742 9 months ago

Hello WoZ owners. I just recently joined the club with ECLE #670 and upon setting up the machine for the first time found this LED strip that wasn't attached to anything. Can anyone tell me where it is supposed to go? It is wired into the back box lights and is sticky on the back. Found it near the monkey.

-RLF

pasted_image (resized).png
#12743 9 months ago
Quoted from OchoFosho:

Hello WoZ owners. I just recently joined the club with ECLE #670 and upon setting up the machine for the first time found this LED strip that wasn't attached to anything. Can anyone tell me where it is supposed to go? It is wired into the back box lights and is sticky on the back. Found it near the monkey.
-RLF[quoted image]

Maybe under the Wizard in the throne room. Looks like the small strip for that area.

#12744 9 months ago
Quoted from OchoFosho:

Can anyone tell me where it is supposed to go?

Is it on constantly in attract mode ? Looks like the strip that goes under the WOZ head lower right side or playfield.

LTG : )

#12745 9 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

Is it on constantly in attract mode ? Looks like the strip that goes under the WOZ head lower right side or playfield.
LTG : )

That's what it is - runs on 12vdc. If the strip is burned out JJP has replacements available.

#12746 9 months ago

I'll be doing a 2.0 light board upgrade swap soon. The only board currently not working, from the original board set, is the "fish" board.
Let me know if any are interested in acquiring my swapped out boards...

#12747 9 months ago

How do you identify 2.0 boards. I don't see 2.0 actually written on them. The date on them is 2018.

Thanks

#12748 9 months ago
Quoted from OchoFosho:

Hello WoZ owners. I just recently joined the club with ECLE #670 and upon setting up the machine for the first time found this LED strip that wasn't attached to anything. Can anyone tell me where it is supposed to go? It is wired into the back box lights and is sticky on the back. Found it near the monkey.
-RLF[quoted image]

Mine is off as well. I think it is for the monkey. Can anyone with the monkey tell us where this is supposed to go?

Thanks

#12749 9 months ago
Quoted from fossmin:

How do you identify 2.0 boards. I don't see 2.0 actually written on them. The date on them is 2018.
Thanks

The 2.0 boards don't use those original cables marked with the red and green paint for one thing. They use an entirely new cable set.

#12750 9 months ago
Quoted from fossmin:

How do you identify 2.0 boards. I don't see 2.0 actually written on them. The date on them is 2018.

Look in the manual. Drawings for both are in there. Old system has data harnesses running to them. 2.0 has a lot of ethernet cables running around and a HUB board and B.A.G. board hanging under the playfield.

LTG : )

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