(Topic ID: 87617)

WOZ Fan Club - members only


By TigerLaw

5 years ago



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#7751 49 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Ok... first of all, how do you find these things so quickly? I searched and couldn't find it, maybe I'm not proficient at searching here.
Second.. did you find any posts where someone did the fan replacement? I was hoping maybe someone had good results with a fan, I saw some "I like these fans" but not where someone actually did it. I guess I'll get just something with similar CFM and low DBs.

At the top of thread, find in topic, CPU fan search term.

#7753 49 days ago

Ok so I fixed the bigger lighting issue I had, but now this has popped up. Parts of my lower PF lights are out such as slings and lanes.

IMG_1765 (resized).jpeg
#7754 49 days ago

Of course it's vireland, many thanks. That's exactly what I needed, fans ordered.

#7755 49 days ago
Quoted from adamross:

Ok so I fixed the bigger lighting issue I had, but now this has popped up. Parts of my lower PF lights are out such as slings and lanes.

This should help you :

Please check out page C-54 in the manual ( you can download it at jerseyjackpinball.com ) that page shows the data harness path. From W6 to #29, to #1, to #2, to #3, etc. etc.

Please go into Tests - LEDs - All LEDs, this turns any working all white. Lift playfield and lean on backbox. You can see the working ones kind of glow.

They are wired in series, a straight line. Find the last working one, the one after it that is out is the bad one. With the power on, you can by pass the data harnesses on the LED boards, bypass the bad one, and turn off in settings. ( be sure and turn it back on when you replace it ) this will help you identify a bad one.

As an example, say #15 was out. You can run the data harness from red on W2, to green on #16 instead of #15. If the rest light up, you know #15 is the bad one.

With the power on you can move data harnesses. They go red to green from board to board. Don't mess with the power connectors with the power on.

LTG : )

#7756 49 days ago
Quoted from adamross:

Ok so I fixed the bigger lighting issue I had, but now this has popped up. Parts of my lower PF lights are out such as slings and lanes.[quoted image]

Swap one of the tiny GI boards from a working light to one of the non-working ones. Quick and dirty test to see if it is the board itself. As much as JJP says the 2.0 system is bulletproof I just got a RR with several bad/failing GI boards.

#7757 49 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Of course it's vireland, many thanks. That's exactly what I needed, fans ordered.

Do you have an RR ? I cant figure if the one for the screen will fit.

#7758 49 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Swap one of the tiny GI boards from a working light to one of the non-working ones. Quick and dirty test to see if it is the board itself. As much as JJP says the 2.0 system is bulletproof I just got a RR with several bad/failing GI boards.

I’m surprised they would have failed so quickly - I was thinking of getting a 2.0 kit upgrade at some point myself.

#7759 49 days ago
Quoted from mjfisher:

I’m surprised they would have failed so quickly - I was thinking of getting a 2.0 kit upgrade at some point myself.

They fail very randomly. I had 3 that failed in my first week then none for the last year and a half. I tend to think some batches are worse than others.

#7760 49 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

They fail very randomly. I had 3 that failed in my first week then none for the last year and a half. I tend to think some batches are worse than others.

The older LED boards, not the newer 2.0 system.

LTG : )

#7761 49 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

The older LED boards, not the newer 2.0 system.
LTG : )

The RR I just got had 5 or so bad GI boards (two were flickering in different colors, three were pink when they should be white). I get it that the 2.0 system is much better than the 5v but bulletproof it is not.

#7762 49 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

Do you have an RR ? I cant figure if the one for the screen will fit.

I do, actually have a SE and RR here right now. I only was concerned about the CPU case fan as it seems like the one that sounds like a jet right now but once that is done maybe I'll notice the screen one. I'll see what happens. Can always return one to Amazon.

#7763 49 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

but bulletproof it is not.

Really ?

I've got four games with that system, 12 hours a day in commercial use. And the only board failure I've had so far was on Hobbit when the drop target mech above it had a bent part which shorted the board below it, not the boards fault.

Seems pretty good to me.

LTG : )

#7764 49 days ago

Nothing is exactly bulletproof, granted, but the failure rate on all iterations of what is essentially the woz 2.0 light board system is a tiny fraction of what it was on the original system. No getting around that when push comes to shove.

#7765 49 days ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Nothing is exactly bulletproof, granted, but the failure rate on all iterations of what is essentially the woz 2.0 light board system is a tiny fraction of what it was on the original system. No getting around that when push comes to shove.

Well... I mean.. maybe that *sounds* like a good "pro" argument, but maybe that just means the non 2.0 systems really, really sucked. Without the public knowing the actual failure rate of either it's impossible to make an opinion. 80% failure rate is better than 90%... but...

What I will say is that replacing a $5 GI board is a lot more palatable than a $30 one. At that price it's getting close to LED bulb prices. Granted, I haven't had to replace any of the LED bulbs I've installed in other games but that's also not a scientific datapoint.

Quoted from LTG:

Really ?
I've got four games with that system, 12 hours a day in commercial use. And the only board failure I've had so far was on Hobbit when the drop target mech above it had a bent part which shorted the board below it, not the boards fault.
Seems pretty good to me.
LTG : )

Well, like I said, in a RR that isn't all that old I had to replace 5 GI boards and not all for the same failure/apparent issue. That was pretty surprising. Other boards that have some issue, I didn't replace yet, aren't the same hue as the rest. Maybe that means they are on the way out, maybe that's just not great QC, I don't know. For someone anal and nitpicky it's annoying so I'll probably just replace and keep them as spares. You will have way more data points and official knowledge of this than I, so it's only my skewed experience.

I'm definitely glad to know the JJP games I now own have the newer system so I don't have to deal with trying to nurse along the older ones.

#7766 49 days ago

There is no point in you and I debating it anyway since it is not a profitable exercise. The difference between the various LED systems is out there for people to experience on their own as time goes along. Me firing statistics at you wouldn’t matter because at the end of the day JJP owners games have the light boards they have and there is no debate or argument for “should I upgrade my LED boards” on any of the 4 newer tables, it’s only WOZ. The 2.0 led upgrade kit wasn’t developed because Eric and the gang had nothing else better to do, obviously there was a need and the realization that the existing need would only grow because the life cycle of the chip on the 1.x boards on the majority of existing WOZ machines was ending. Every kit sold not only takes one more of the finite number of WOZ games out of the subset of games featuring non 2.0 but it frees up the owner to sell off their original boards, thereby cutting down their own cost substantially but also resupplying the pool of available 1.x boards to help the remaining original owners. The kits are selling very well and are performing beautifully for the most part and that’s all good news. The failure rate on 2.0, Hobbit, DI and pirates led boards is so low that it is almost statistically insignificant, whereas the rate on 1.x WOZ boards is much higher.

#7767 49 days ago

No way Harry - it’s simple to have an opinion on the old design vs the 2.0 system - my ECLE had lighting issues, but my RR 2.0, Dialed In, Hobbit, and Pirates had zero issues. I don’t get where 80% to 90% has to do with anything, and don’t know of any company putting out the kind of numbers (failure rates) your referring to. Mine have all been nib / huo games so probibaly don’t get near the plays your game has also. What was your RR manufacture date? I’m wondering if it was 2.0 off the line or upgraded.

#7768 48 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

This should help you :
Please check out page C-54 in the manual ( you can download it at jerseyjackpinball.com ) that page shows the data harness path. From W6 to #29, to #1, to #2, to #3, etc. etc.
Please go into Tests - LEDs - All LEDs, this turns any working all white. Lift playfield and lean on backbox. You can see the working ones kind of glow.
They are wired in series, a straight line. Find the last working one, the one after it that is out is the bad one. With the power on, you can by pass the data harnesses on the LED boards, bypass the bad one, and turn off in settings. ( be sure and turn it back on when you replace it ) this will help you identify a bad one.
As an example, say #15 was out. You can run the data harness from red on W2, to green on #16 instead of #15. If the rest light up, you know #15 is the bad one.
With the power on you can move data harnesses. They go red to green from board to board. Don't mess with the power connectors with the power on.
LTG : )

Quoted from harryhoudini:

Swap one of the tiny GI boards from a working light to one of the non-working ones. Quick and dirty test to see if it is the board itself. As much as JJP says the 2.0 system is bulletproof I just got a RR with several bad/failing GI boards.

Thanks gents. I don't think my game has the upgraded 2.0 lights as it was a RR built in 2015. Will report back!

#7769 48 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Well, like I said, in a RR that isn't all that old I had to replace 5 GI boards and not all for the same failure/apparent issue.

Do you have the 2.0 system in your game ?

LTG : )

#7770 48 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

The RR I just got had 5 or so bad GI boards (two were flickering in different colors, three were pink when they should be white). I get it that the 2.0 system is much better than the 5v but bulletproof it is not.

Did you try reinstalling the latest update? Wasn’t that a routed pin?

#7771 48 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

Do you have the 2.0 system in your game ?
LTG : )

The RR has 2.0, the SE has 5v. The 5 boards I replaced were in the RR. I ended up buying a complete spare set of used boards for the SE because I needed to replace WOZ2.

Quoted from f3honda4me:

Did you try reinstalling the latest update? Wasn’t that a routed pin?

I have not. I will do that, thanks. It wasn't routed, per say, but was in an arcade and has a lot of plays, yes.

#7772 48 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

The 5 boards I replaced were in the RR.

Are you sure it's 2.0 ? B.A.G. and Hub boards, bunch of blue ethernet cables running around the underside of the playfield, hooking up the LED boards.

I'm asking to help me learn, I haven't heard of any one 2.0 game losing 5 GI boards. Thank you for your help.

LTG : )

#7773 48 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

Are you sure it's 2.0 ? B.A.G. and Hub boards, bunch of blue ethernet cables running around the underside of the playfield, hooking up the LED boards.
I'm asking to help me learn, I haven't heard of any one 2.0 game losing 5 GI boards. Thank you for your help.
LTG : )

100% ... like I said, I have two WOZ machines right now so the side by side comparison is easy to see. You and some others helped me troubleshoot lights on my SE so I'm somewhat intimately familiar with the 5v system. The RR definitely has the 2.0 system, CAT5 cables, etc.

I made a post about it (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/woz-rr-questions-20-gi-lighting-touch-up-paint-) and here is an album with videos showing the pink and flickering color issues: https://photos.app.goo.gl/roFBtFmU9DNdPsVF6

It was easy to swap the GI boards around and see that it was the board that failed and not something with the wiring or chain of boards, etc. I still have the failed boards, happy to send them to you if you want to check them out. Since they are so cheap comparatively I wasn't so concerned but just surprised that the 2.0 system had issues on this game.

#7774 48 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

100% ... like I said, I have two WOZ machines right now so the side by side comparison is easy to see. You and some others helped me troubleshoot lights on my SE so I'm somewhat intimately familiar with the 5v system. The RR definitely has the 2.0 system, CAT5 cables, etc.

Thank you.

LTG : )

#7775 48 days ago

When I got my 2.0 kit, two of the new boards were bad. One of the large boards and one of the GI ones. Got replacements and everything has been fine. But, it just goes to show that anything can happen.

By contrast, I’ve had my DI for a bit over a year and never had a problem with any of the lights. Harry, if you have had multiple issues, that is some extreme bad luck. Of course, the pin was routed so it may have seen some heavy play, but it is surprising that you have had so many issues.

#7776 48 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Since they are so cheap comparatively I wasn't so concerned but just surprised that the 2.0 system had issues on this game.

Was your 75th built 2.0 or upgraded? I believe 12/15/2016 was the day that WOZ converted to 2.0 on the line, anything built prior with 2.0 was upgraded.

#7777 48 days ago
Quoted from PinJim:

Odd. Did you change software versions at the same time?

I’m Still running 6.61. But the factory reset re-installed an earlier version and I had to re-upgrade to 6.61. Still no issues with witch switch since then.

#7778 48 days ago

Ok with the lights off, my WOZ RR is really dark. Kind of reminds me of my alien. What is the best lighting solution for the play field. Im not 100% interested in pin stadium lights.

#7779 48 days ago
Quoted from Oneangrymo:

Ok with the lights off, my WOZ RR is really dark. Kind of reminds me of my alien. What is the best lighting solution for the play field. Im not 100% interested in pin stadium lights.

A few options here

https://lermods.com/t/wizard-of-oz-pinball-mods

#7780 48 days ago
Quoted from mountaingamer:

Was your 75th built 2.0 or upgraded? I believe 12/15/2016 was the day that WOZ converted to 2.0 on the line, anything built prior with 2.0 was upgraded.

I believe it came with 2.0 and was built after that date, sometime in 2017 I'm fairly sure I recall from the backbox.

#7782 48 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

When I got my 2.0 kit, two of the new boards were bad. One of the large boards and one of the GI ones. Got replacements and everything has been fine. But, it just goes to show that anything can happen.
By contrast, I’ve had my DI for a bit over a year and never had a problem with any of the lights. Harry, if you have had multiple issues, that is some extreme bad luck. Of course, the pin was routed so it may have seen some heavy play, but it is surprising that you have had so many issues.

I had one bad large board in my SE (WOZ2) and one or two bad GI boards on the 5v system, I've been well made aware of the issues with the 5v system

And probably 8 or so GI boards in the RR 2.0 system that are bad or going bad. Not sure if there was just a bad batch, if the GI boards are more susceptible to issues, etc... but I'm not suggesting there is anything systemically wrong. Definitely had some use.

#7783 48 days ago

Thanks for all the info on 2.0 - Harry I’d be curious to know how many plays your machine has had. It would be a worry if it’s only had a couple of thousand I guess but I’d be less concerned if it’s had a heap of plays. I’d be getting a 2.0 kit for a home use machine. Thanks a lot.

#7784 48 days ago
Quoted from mjfisher:

It would be a worry if it’s only had a couple of thousand I guess but I’d be less concerned if it’s had a heap of plays.

I wouldn't worry. I have WOZ converted to 2.0, and Hobbit, Dialed In, and Pirates, in commercial use in my arcade, since they came out, getting lots of plays. And only one LED board failure due to a bent drop target mech hitting it and shorting it. Not the LED boards fault.

LTG
Disclaimer : I do work for JJP, remember that when you read my post. Some people may think I'm guilding the lilly.

#7785 48 days ago

I must just be unlucky. ltg after replacing the GI's that were obviously an issue here is what I see now in white test mode. The differences in lighting you see in the photos (with one light being more yellow and another being more blue) are how they look in person. You can see in the bottom of the playfield view that the bottom right corner of several lights are much more beige/pink than the rest. If you look at the one pic that has the side of the castle playfield in it you can see two lights, one is yellowish and one is blueish. Like I said, I am going to live with this for now, I guess. I have 5 more GI boards new but I am going to wait and see what happens.

Oh, and it isn't a "chaining" thing or wiring. If I swap boards around the color follows them, meaning it's the board.

Quoted from mjfisher:

Thanks for all the info on 2.0 - Harry I’d be curious to know how many plays your machine has had. It would be a worry if it’s only had a couple of thousand I guess but I’d be less concerned if it’s had a heap of plays. I’d be getting a 2.0 kit for a home use machine. Thanks a lot.

22k plays and 3/24/17 build date. Personally, if I were keeping my SE with the 5v boards I would have done the conversion to 2.0. I actually ordered the kit and then happenstance I got the RR and cancelled the order and found a used set of boards to fix my 5v issues.

Yellowish
0602192009d (resized).jpg
0602192009b (resized).jpg

Blueish
0602192009c (resized).jpg
0602192009a (resized).jpg

Castle playfield one yelloish one blueish
0602192010 (resized).jpg

Bottom right has a concentration of yelloish lights, among others
0602192010b (resized).jpg
0602192010a (resized).jpg

#7786 47 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I must just be unlucky.

You might talk to Frank Becker the service manage, or Eric that designed the system, about this. I wonder if something else is going on or happened in the games past, that is causing this. Yours is the only one I know of with continuing issues.

LTG : )

#7787 47 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

You might talk to Frank Becker the service manage, or Eric that designed the system, about this. I wonder if something else is going on or happened in the games past, that is causing this. Yours is the only one I know of with continuing issues.
LTG : )

I actually talked to Frank when I ordered the GI boards. Shannan forwarded my request to him because she knew I had the 5v system in my SE and didn't know I had a RR with the 2.0 system so they were confused as to why I was ordering 2.0 GI boards. He didn't seem that concerned that I had to replace so many boards, but I'm happy to shoot him an email.

Just to be clear, I *just* got the RR so there were not really continuing issues, just these GI issues I discovered once I got the game. If the replacement boards solve the issue then it's $5 well spent on each.

Edit - Frank has been emailed the details.

#7788 47 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I actually talked to Frank when I ordered the GI boards. Shannan forwarded my request to him because she knew I had the 5v system in my SE and didn't know I had a RR with the 2.0 system so they were confused as to why I was ordering 2.0 GI boards. He didn't seem that concerned that I had to replace so many boards, but I'm happy to shoot him an email.
Just to be clear, I *just* got the RR so there were not really continuing issues, just these GI issues I discovered once I got the game. If the replacement boards solve the issue then it's $5 well spent on each.
Edit - Frank has been emailed the details.

Are you sure the LEDs are not simply different model numbers? The color of the white varies between different model numbers of the kingbrite leds.

#7789 47 days ago

Did all the RR editions come with 2.0 lighting?

#7790 47 days ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Are you sure the LEDs are not simply different model numbers? The color of the white varies between different model numbers of the kingbrite leds.

Well... I do know that when I spoke with Frank he did say that the part number on my boards was superseded by a newer part. So if that is what you are referring to, it sounds like that could be true. Nothing was said to me that the colors might be different. At the same time, the older boards which I haven't replaced aren't all the same color of white either, so it's definitely not an issue with one part number versus another. I'm still not that overly concerned unless the color difference is an indication of a future issue. $5 for a replacement board is palatable.

#7791 47 days ago
Quoted from adamross:

Did all the RR editions come with 2.0 lighting?

Quoted from mountaingamer:

Was your 75th built 2.0 or upgraded? I believe 12/15/2016 was the day that WOZ converted to 2.0 on the line, anything built prior with 2.0 was upgraded.

#7792 47 days ago
Quoted from adamross:

Did all the RR editions come with 2.0 lighting?

Nope,
The RR started being built with the 7.5V boards. Then RR production moved to the 2.0 boards.

#7793 47 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I must just be unlucky. ltg after replacing the GI's that were obviously an issue here is what I see now in white test mode. The differences in lighting you see in the photos (with one light being more yellow and another being more blue) are how they look in person. You can see in the bottom of the playfield view that the bottom right corner of several lights are much more beige/pink than the rest. If you look at the one pic that has the side of the castle playfield in it you can see two lights, one is yellowish and one is blueish. Like I said, I am going to live with this for now, I guess. I have 5 more GI boards new but I am going to wait and see what happens.
Oh, and it isn't a "chaining" thing or wiring. If I swap boards around the color follows them, meaning it's the board.

22k plays and 3/24/17 build date. Personally, if I were keeping my SE with the 5v boards I would have done the conversion to 2.0. I actually ordered the kit and then happenstance I got the RR and cancelled the order and found a used set of boards to fix my 5v issues.
Yellowish
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Blueish
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Castle playfield one yelloish one blueish
[quoted image]
Bottom right has a concentration of yelloish lights, among others
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Those don't look like board failures to me such that the board once worked, and it no longer does. Unless you are saying that is what happened. Rather, they look like the lights themselves are slightly off, perhaps a slight defect in manufacture. So, I'm not sure this says anything about the longevity of the 2.0 system. It might just say that there was a bad batch of boards out there.

#7794 47 days ago
Quoted from fnosm:

Nope,
The RR started being built with the 7.5V boards. Then RR production moved to the 2.0 boards.

I'm sure this has been covered before, but is there a way I can upgrade my machine to 2.0?

#7795 47 days ago
Quoted from adamross:

I'm sure this has been covered before, but is there a way I can upgrade my machine to 2.0?

Yes, you can order a kit for $800 from the JJP online store. It takes about 12-14 hours to do the upgrade. I’ve done it, and I’m not very mechanically inclined. There are good step by step instructions and plenty of support here on pinside.

#7796 47 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Those don't look like board failures to me such that the board once worked, and it no longer does. Unless you are saying that is what happened. Rather, they look like the lights themselves are slightly off, perhaps a slight defect in manufacture. So, I'm not sure this says anything about the longevity of the 2.0 system. It might just say that there was a bad batch of boards out there.

If a board worked and no longer does, what do you call that? I'm not sure what you're trying to differentiate here. If you're saying the different hues is not a failure, I will agree there.. they haven't failed, but they aren't working correctly or 100%. It's just annoying now, enough that I'll probably spend the money to replace all of the GI boards.

These are the ones that unquestionably failed: https://photos.app.goo.gl/roFBtFmU9DNdPsVF6

I don't know, I sort of expect that all lights have the same hue from the same manufacturer. If the boards change color over time, that seems like an issue. If they are different batches that have different hues, issue. It's not a world hunger type issue but if I bought the same bulbs from Comet and some were one hue and some another they would make it right, I know this as a fact. I haven't known LEDs to change color/hues over time but I have no specific knowledge on this.

#7797 47 days ago

The majority of 75ths out there are or at least were non- 2.0.

#7798 47 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

If a board worked and no longer does, what do you call that? I'm not sure what you're trying to differentiate here. If you're saying the different hues is not a failure, I will agree there.. they haven't failed, but they aren't working correctly or 100%. It's just annoying now, enough that I'll probably spend the money to replace all of the GI boards.
These are the ones that unquestionably failed: https://photos.app.goo.gl/roFBtFmU9DNdPsVF6
I don't know, I sort of expect that all lights have the same hue from the same manufacturer. If the boards change color over time, that seems like an issue. If they are different batches that have different hues, issue. It's not a world hunger type issue but if I bought the same bulbs from Comet and some were one hue and some another they would make it right, I know this as a fact. I haven't known LEDs to change color/hues over time but I have no specific knowledge on this.

Maybe I was confused. So those boards were once perfect white and are now tinted, is that right? Then, I would agree that something happened. If they came slightly tinted to begin with, then it just seems like a bad batch. I just don’t want people to be concerned about the reliability of the 2.0 system if it is the latter.

#7799 47 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Maybe I was confused. So those boards were once perfect white and are now tinted, is that right? Then, I would agree that something happened. If they came slightly tinted to begin with, then it just seems like a bad batch. I just don’t want people to be concerned about the reliability of the 2.0 system if it is the latter.

Harry got it off route - who knows how long it was on and if the light intensity was set to high.... who knows

#7800 47 days ago
Quoted from mountaingamer:

Harry got it off route - who knows how long it was on and if the light intensity was set to high.... who knows

Why would some boards be one color and some be another? Why would intensity matter in that case and why would there be an intensity option if it will ruin boards? Why should it matter how long it was on, weren't all boards on for the same amount of time? Why would some boards flicker and display pink when it was a white LED test?

Tell me what exactly an owner could have done to create these problems. Even in somewhat continual use shouldn't these last longer than a few years?

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