A Disney rabbit told you this??

I would think that early birds may have them before then?

A Disney rabbit told you this??

(Thumper)

thumper.jpg

Yeah right! LOL JJ wont be a whole year late on this!

Are you talking 2012 or 2013? For this to be true you'd have to believe they are making games now! A full staff up and working NOW! The facts don't support the claim again. If you're talking NOV 11 2012 that's a SUNDAY! Maybe the games are coming from China? That's the only way any of this makes sense! When the guy has a factory up and producing games then you'll know, not until then. JJP personal told my friend he'd have his game in July 2012. It's now Sept! BTW he sold his position also!

I remember a thread earlier where someone said Stern builds a table in 30 hours... So JJP could start building Nov 1st and still make their ship dates

Nov 11th is a holiday in the US.
I forsee another delay .

I know that 30 hours includes Stern making the wire bundles in house. They also probably include setting up the cabinets with braid, assembling coil assemblies, etc.
I don't think JJP is doing those things in house. The suppliers are doing a lot of the work before the parts are shipped. Also, the lighting system that JJP appears to be using does not have all the individual light sockets that Stern has been using. Connecting the lights by circuit board connectors is a huge manufacturing time savings by itself. It will also result in much cleaner under-playfield look.

Also, when Stern says one machine takes 30 hours, they are making dozens at the same time.

Would love to have mine for the holidays but then again, it's the worst time to ship things... Keep that in mind.

Regarding the shipping date in the OP, I really have my doubts. I would not expect anything to be known until they get a test game out there for a few weeks.

Jack did say they will work 24/7 if they need to. I can see them making their target once they get going. Since it is modular and many things are already produced before they arrive, it should not take long to asemble a pin.

I hope this is true but I am skeptical due to historical data.

Hopefully things go as planned, I know JJP & those with preorders have had a rough ride.

There is a Corvette game... why not this?

It's a great idea but we'll see if the application is good. The light boards aren't that big of a deal. Plug and play. It's the switches and coils that take time. Building up the playfield still takes a lot of time. Factor in human error and Murphy will have an office at JJP's! I'd say you're over simplifying a complex assembly from a lack of knowledge. No matter what, building the game isn't going to be all that easy. The lack of progress is proof!

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Installing switches and GI take what? 30 min. Once they get rolling it should not take that much time to assemble.

I'm sure there will be multiple people attacking these things on the assembly line each with his or her own section to assemble. In case you didn't know, one quickly gets good at doing something over and over.

AFAIR Stern can kick out 40 pins a day. Or at least could when I took a tour a few years back.

Ohh ye of little faith and intelligence. Stand by and watch.

At what cost to quality control???......

Now guys - I think this is a good time to pause the thread and say this -

You know these threads always get derailed and dissolve into childish name-calling. Let's try and have one thread where this doesn't happen. We can do that if we remember that we're talking about pinball, not our own selves or each other.

It's not about where we all stand on the fanboy/hater scale with Stern and JJP, it's not about getting baited into arguing for the sake of arguing, it's about the peculiar past-time we all enjoy. The game will either ship this year or it won't, it'll either suck or be awesome or somewhere in-between, and in the grand scheme of things it's still not worth getting worked up about when we're months and months away from being involved.

Alex, see above. You might sleep better tonight.

I'm surprised nothing has been posted on the WOZ forums.

Simply providing a rough estimate. You can make your own call on quality.

I remember one guy saying he drives by their buildings every day. When they start building the game, the lot would be full of cars from workers. I'll believe they're building it when I hear from this dude.

I'll believe they're building it when I hear from this dude.

redneck_plumbers_truck.jpg

NO. That's the guy who crapped in my toilet when I wasn't lookin

ROFL

Again with this stuff. For better or worse you don't have to go there. based on pure intelligence your last certain knowledge took a royal dump.
How about just talking about what you know. Its going to happen, its good stuff. People trying to figure out the hows and whys should not illicit you to go to this level every time.
Same advice as last time.
Stand up, walk away, deep breaths relax. Then come back and share what you feel you can.
Cheers

+1000

Just so you all know, Both JJP and Stern got nothing on Wizard Blocks!

"That's a horse of a different color."

Jack posted this on RGP a bit ago. And I applaud him for it.

"I said some stupid things that I apologized to Gary in Denver a few
months ago. he did the same with me. As we spoke, people started to
circle us and take pictures. Some asked to pose for pictures with us.
Maybe one day we will do a road show. I truly like Gary and we worked
very well together for many years. There were rocky times but I did my
best as a distributor partner to promote Stern Pinball and I am proud
that we sold so many thousands of them to many people. We still
support parts and service of Stern Pinball today in support of the
thousands of customers who we sold games to.

I started JJP to satisfy customer demand. If there were no customers,
there would be no company. There are both now. This is not the time
for failure, this is the time for glory.

I said some things that were stupid. Some turned out to be wrong, like
timing. I'm sorry, I'm human. I only said what I knew at the time to
be true. I will make more mistakes but I've learned from them. Too
many things were out of our control...OK....welcome to manufacturing a
product that gets almost no respect from vendors.

We started with less than nothing. We really did not get any traction
until April-May of 2011. I let everyone on the Team basically do what
they wanted to do. We created a game that was a lot more everything
than we expected it to be on day one. We hope that when you see it and
play it soon that even if you don't love it, you will then understand
what it took to do this.

When was the last pinball line launched and a game company created
from nothing? I don't remember. When was a game created that took over
$2 million to create? I don't remember and I'm only doing this for 37
years.

I'm here, not going anywhere God willing. If you need to e mail or
call me, I'm around.

To those who doubt us, that's perfectly human. I respect your
opinions.

To those who cheer us on in many ways, thank you.

It's Only Pinball and we all love it. If you love what we are doing,
great. If you don't, well maybe we will get you on game #2 or #3.

Thank you all, even the doubters and haters have made us better.

Have a nice weekend.

Jack"

Great stuff!

$2 million, that's unbelievable. You could do a full renovation of a building for less than that! Based on the fact that JJP has sold 1000 LEs and a few hundred standard editions (let's say 400) and the fact that they have spent over $2 million on this game so far (let's say $2.3 million) allows me to make a very rough production cost estimate of ~$2000 per LE and ~$1500 per standard game. Wow.

I certainly respect Jack more for coming out with such a statement. Although I loved his energy, he was starting to sound like a used car salesman. This shows he is humble and that he deserves our support and patience.

Nice job Jack! It's not easy to admit one's mistakes. There are a lot of us out here that support you through thick and thin and are eagerly waiting WOZ.

Taylor the SW's are just one part of the puzzle, lights, boards, posts, T nuts, ramps, rubbers, WOODEN aprons, siderails,plastics, ball guides and the real bitch, the harness! Then it all has to work correctly. You still need works and a staff!!!! As vid1900 said, nothing there yet! BTW don't touch or bump the clear coated cabinets!

Even more so for the decaled cabinets used by WMS. Your point?

I have a 10 year old clearcoated car sitting in my driveway that still looks pretty darn good. It sits in the sun most of the day and gets driven at highway speeds.

But you are right, I'm concerned about the clearcoat holding up on my WOZ. Especially since I'll be leaving it outside, parking it in parking lots, and driving it at 70+ mph. Thanks for the heads up!

Also, the apron is not wooden. The apron is the same as Williams games, metal. The apron topper is a removable decoration made of wood. It is not required or needed. It is simply a bonus added feature. Furthermore, the wiring harnesses are likely made by a supplier for JJP.

The first time your bonehead friend, who knows nothing about pinball, bumps into your machine with a belt on, you'll know what we're talking about here.

Go lean on your car with a metal buckle, belt, or zipper exposed and report back.

(Actually, please don't! I don't want to be held liable.)

Just like your playfields, use Novus.

Actually, what is being talked about here is the perception that a clearcoated cabinet is somehow more susceptible to scratches/blemishes than a decal that Bally/Williams or current sterns have. I dont see how anyone could think a decal would hold up better to a belt buckle than a painted then clearcoated cabinet.

The Car reference is a good one in this case.

I guess I don't understand what your getting at.

Yeah well don't have a friend over with his belt buckel by my TF or it may rip the whole Fing decal off.

Who's inviting a bunch of dudes to rub their belt buckles and zippers on their stuff?