(Topic ID: 205336)

WoZ Flipper Spring Lights up like heater coil


By vireland

1 year ago



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  • 20 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by vireland
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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ad887a49620b7f561dd9a477d6c43b2ddb932b5e (resized).jpg
WoZ Coil (resized).jpg

#1 1 year ago

So I was having problems with the munchkin flipper spring getting destroyed in just a day or so. Put a new one in, works for a test, then come back in a few days and the coil spring is wasted, all stretched out and brittle. Put a new spring on, then energized the flipper coil with the PF up, and I saw what's in the picture - the coil got red hot and caught fire briefly. Clearly there's a problem. But where is the power coming from?

I removed and inspected the coil - nothing. Took out the coil sleeve to look for breaks where maybe the coil power was energizing the shaft - nothing. I have no idea how power is getting out onto the coil bracket to run through the spring, lighting it up like a heater coil. Any ideas? I've literally never seen this before, and have worked on hundreds of machines...

EDIT: Checked power of the flipper bracket. It has 62v. That's wrong. Removed the coil from the bracket completely. Still have 62v flowing through the bracket with NOTHING I can see touching it, and the only wire still attached from the EOS switch, which does NOT have 62v. Maybe something under the Munchkin playfield is coming down the flipper shaft to the bracket...

EDIT: Flipper shaft out. Still have 62v. Removing bracket completely to inspect under...

EDIT: While removing bracket noticed that the black tape from the magnet coil above the munchkin flipper bracket was covering a smidge of the bracket. Yep, that's it. Remove the magnet coil power (at the connector) and lose energized flipper coil bracket. This also probably explains why once the flipper below the munchkin one on the lower playfield also had a wasted flipper spring as the clearances are pretty tight for both and it probably touched the unwinding magnet coil, too.

WoZ Coil (resized).jpg

#2 1 year ago

I asked about this earlier. Power getting to the spring ?

I'd put a meter on it, probe from spring to ground, and see what you are dealing with. Same test flipper base plate to ground. Something shorted somewhere, below or above the playfield.

Pawl has the plastic link, so one end of spring is insulated from the pawl to the other end. You have power from pawl to bracket ? EOS is closed in your picture, EOS blades shorting to metal ? Plastic tubes screws go through cracked or broken ?

The circuit issue looks like an incorrect current path from pawl to EOS bracket, or to blades on EOS bracket.

Something really wrong there, you just have to figure it out.

LTG : )

#3 1 year ago

My guess is one of the Spade tab lugs for the coil is contacting the coil bracket right where the linkage bottoms out it's dangerously close from the picture take the coil out of the bracket put a couple pieces of electrical tape across the three lugs on the back side where it's riveted and replace.

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

I asked about this earlier. Power getting to the spring ?
I'd put a meter on it, probe from spring to ground, and see what you are dealing with. Same test flipper base plate to ground. Something shorted somewhere, below or above the playfield.
Pawl has the plastic link, so one end of spring is insulated from the pawl to the other end. You have power from pawl to bracket ? EOS is closed in your picture, EOS blades shorting to metal ? Plastic tubes screws go through cracked or broken ?
The circuit issue looks like an incorrect current path from pawl to EOS bracket, or to blades on EOS bracket.
Something really wrong there, you just have to figure it out.
LTG : )

I got it. Power coming from the magnet coil barely touching the flipper bracket where the tape wrapping it had come away. You can see it in the picture of the energized spring if you ignore the pretty light and concentrate on the other side of the bracket. So just wrapping the magnet coil again tight with electrical tape to cover the wire that was making contact is the solution.

Thanks for coming in so quickly, LLoyd!

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

My guess is one of the Spade tab lugs for the coil is contacting the coil bracket right where the linkage bottoms out it's dangerously close from the picture take the coil out of the bracket put a couple pieces of electrical tape across the three lugs on the back side where it's riveted and replace.

That was my first thought, but when I removed the coil entirely and still had an energized coil bracket, it sent me in another direction. JJP should probably have a service bulletin on this if the clearances are still like this on the RR WoZ. There should be a shield or insulating sleeve (or electrical tape) on the one edge of that flipper bracket that's so close to the magnet coil.

#6 1 year ago

I had this exact same thing happen except it was the upper right flipper. I wasn't able to figure out what was causing the entire bracket to get voltage but I figured out that when 1 of the screws was removed from the flipper bracket assembly I was no longer getting voltage. I removed the entire assembly but didn't see anything that could be causing it.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from tmontana:

I had this exact same thing happen except it was the upper right flipper. I wasn't able to figure out what was causing the entire bracket to get voltage but I figured out that when 1 of the screws was removed from the flipper bracket assembly I was no longer getting voltage. I removed the entire assembly but didn't see anything that could be causing it.

It was probably coming from the top side of that same magnet that had unraveled a little (it also happened to this flipper on mine, but only once). The clearance on the top side of that magnet is better than the bottom side, but still pretty close.

1 week later
#8 1 year ago

What were your indications because this looks and sounds serious.
Was there smoke? A smell?
Where the flippers failing, dying, limp?

Thanks, anything you can provide to watch for this issue will help.

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckcasey:

What were your indications

Spring kept breaking and looked stretched and burned like a bulb filament.

LTG : )

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckcasey:

What were your indications because this looks and sounds serious.
Was there smoke? A smell?
Where the flippers failing, dying, limp?
Thanks, anything you can provide to watch for this issue will help.

I just kept coming back to the location to find the munchkin flipper was limp and when I lifted the playfield found the spring stretched out and brittle. Put a new spring on and same thing kept happening a couple more times when a new spring was added until I traced it down.

It could potentially be a serious issue since there was fire and flame when I finally tested it with the playfield raised and a new spring. That why I said a service bulletin might be a good idea for people to be alerted to this possibility as these machines age. There is very little clearance between that magnet and the flipper bracket so if that magnet starts unwinding as it ages as this one did, it doesn't take much for this to happen.

#11 1 year ago

Yikes. Can you post a picture of what you had to re-wrap in electrical tape? I'd like to check mine before my house burns down.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

before my house burns down.

Won't happen. Fuses blow long before then.

I used his picture and drew a partial red line around the magnet he wrapped.

LTG : )

ad887a49620b7f561dd9a477d6c43b2ddb932b5e (resized).jpg

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Yikes. Can you post a picture of what you had to re-wrap in electrical tape? I'd like to check mine before my house burns down.

Just took off the magnet coil and wrapped the outside tightly with electrical tape (maybe 3 times around?). It already has black tape on it, but it had started to come undone. I tightened that up, then wrapped electrical tape on top of that to make sure it stayed put.

Quoted from LTG:

Won't happen. Fuses blow long before then.
I used his picture and drew a partial red line around the magnet he wrapped.
LTG : )

I dunno. The fire came from the spring side, and while it was brief (5-10 seconds), there was an actual 4" flame at the end, not just a bright spring coil. Magnet never blew the fuse in the whole time on location this kept happening.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

I dunno. The fire came from the spring side, and while it was brief (5-10 seconds), there was an actual 4" flame at the end, not just a bright spring coil. Magnet never blew the fuse in the whole time on location this kept happening.

There was a metal flipper base plate between the fire and wood. 5-10 seconds spring broke and that was the end of it.

This happened to you a few times or more. Plenty of opportunity to have a fire, if possible.

LTG : )

#15 1 year ago

In order for the spring to heat up, there must be a point that completes the circuit. As far as I can figure, the flipper pawl is getting grounded through the end-of-stroke switch. Probably want to check the insulator where the pawl activates the switch and correct the situation there, too.
--Ted

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from check_switch_26:

In order for the spring to heat up, there must be a point that completes the circuit. As far as I can figure, the flipper pawl is getting grounded through the end-of-stroke switch. Probably want to check the insulator where the pawl activates the switch and correct the situation there, too.
--Ted

The whole flipper bracket was energized. The magic happened when the EOS switch made contact. So I assumed it was pulling ground through the EOS switch attached to the bracket. The little rubber/plastic wrap on the mechanism that contacts the switch is still there, so I'm not sure how it could have come in that way unless it's not covered enough and was making partial metal to metal contact.

#17 1 year ago

What was your reaction when you saw that the first time? Jump back? Drop an F bomb? If the underside of my playfield exploded like a burned out light bulb I would freak out too!

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Crash:

What was your reaction when you saw that the first time? Jump back? Drop an F bomb? If the underside of my playfield exploded like a burned out light bulb I would freak out too!

It didn't explode, it was more slow motion. The spring just got really bright and then caught fire for a few seconds. It WAS surprising, but I was mostly glad nothing really bad happened the times before when I just replaced the spring and left.

#19 1 year ago

Amazing. You see something new every day!

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from arolden:

Amazing. You see something new every day!

That's why it was so surprising for me. I've repaired/rebuilt a LOT of pins and never have seen this.

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