I wonder what is different about your guys' games. different mobo chipset? something has to be different, which makes me wonder if it could be swapped out.

Something to do with early run machines. Pretty sure all the known ones are early run.

Hello,

I can't apply the 6.5 update. Unzipped the woz_update directory to a FAT32 usb key, when I start the USB update via the utilities menu, screen goes black and remains black forever (waited for more than 1 hour already). Then the pinball won't even boot anymore, I have to do a fresh/full 6.06 install. It's not a problem with the USB key because I use the same to do the full installs and it works fine.

Any idea?

Thanks.

Fresh download of full install. Put it in.

Fresh download of update. Please try a different USB stick.

Then try it. Screen may go black for awhile, but not an hour. If you turn it off when black, then you'll need to do a full install.

Keep the full download handy in case you need to put it in again.

LTG : )

Yep, I tried another USB stick for the update and it worked.... strange since the 1st one works fine for a full 6.06 install.. but crashes the pin totally for the update.. go figure out

Thanks.

Never had an issue with my early build woz but since the new code I have had two lockups - first one game played but screen frozen second right after I hit start it did a quick reboot. Not sure what's changed but wanted to let others know.

I was excited to see that Winkie Guard ball stuck issue was addressed with the code update but I've had two occasions since updating the code that the ball has still gotten stuck between the top of the Winkie guard target and the plastic above...
Anyone else still having that issue?

Is your drop target flush with the playfield ? You can adjust the height by a screw and nut on bottom of the assembly.

Otherwise raise the plastic up a little. Washers or spacers.

LTG : )

Maybe it can still potentially happen under certain circumstances then? I used to be able to replicate it very easily before but now i can try to cause it over and over without the coil ever locking on.

For me though even before the update this has never actually happened during actual gameplay. I think adjustment may be a contributing factor.

I had tinkered with the winkie guard target height adjustment before the last code update and it didn't help.
I'm going to see what I can do to adjust the guard target height again.
It doesn't seem to happen nearly as often so I do feel the code may be helping some here.

Hmmm... I thought JJP would have released a 6.51 update to add those twinkly lights back into the game?

Maybe Keith has been busy coding number #4, I'm sure he will at some point.

I believe I've discovered another bug, and it is potentially game ruining. I tested it with the glass off, and got it to repeat itself. I was hoping someone could try it on their machine and verify.

Here's the general situation: Sometimes when you have two balls locked and hit another ball up the ramp, the timing of the arm is a bit off and releases two balls. (This is adjustable, but even adjusting it, it can still happen from time to time.) When this happens, I don't want an unearned multiball, so I let one ball drain and play with the other ball. However, if I then hit the other ball up the ramp, it treats that as a drain, and I lose the ball. I do not believe this happened at all with the old code.

So, to test, please take the glass off and lock two balls. Then, without lighting "lock" push another ball up the ramp. The pin will release one ball, but you can release a second on purpose just by raising the arm with your hand. Let the first ball drain and keep the second ball. Wait a few seconds, hit some switches to prevent the game from going into search mode. Then, without lighting "lock" again, push the ball up the ramp. In my case, that always results in the machine thinking the ball has drained.

This sucks as it can ruin your game if the machine accidentally releases two balls. Again, the accidental release happens from time to time, and I don't believe the old code ever did this.

Can someone try to verify?

I have experienced something very similar to what you are describing but have not yet gone through and detailed out the parameters like you have.

Will give it a try tonight if someone else doesn’t beat me to it.

Pretty sure this has happened to me, and yes, I never experienced that bug before.

Thanks guys for the feedback. It would be great if you could verify with the glass off. I would like to email JJP, and it would be better if I can say that others have verified this.

Hm, this definitely shouldn't happen, I'll have to check it out. Is it safe to assume you're shooting the ball up the ramp a fair amount of time after the ball drains?

A ball drain is supposed to "eat" a lost ball, so this should never happen. A lot of code did change in that area recently, though, so it's possible something was introduced. Will look into it.

I tried a few times to replicate with the glass off but couldn’t. There may be another unknown in play.

Any chance any of your balls are magnetized? Sometimes that can cause balls to be in unexpected postions in the lock and/or trough. I know when I had some of those super shiney balls lots of wierd things would happen.

Weird. No, I use the carbon steel ones. When you tried it, did you hit the last ball up without the lock light on? If lock is lit, I don’t believe it registers a drain.

Thanks for the quick response. I’m not sure if I hit the ball up there a lot, but it is a common shot as you know. I’m pretty sure it won’t happen if lock is lit. I’ll have to play with it more to see.

I just tried this several more times, and it happens each time. It can happen after one ball is locked or two. It can even happen when lock is lit, so I was wrong about that. The last time I tried it, I waited a long time between draining the extra released ball and hitting the ramp again. Despite waiting a long time, hitting the ramp registered a drain.

I checked all switches on the Munchkin lock and in the trough and they registered ok.

Would love to hear back from others who try this.

Happens in my 6.50 code RR as well. Just glass tested it and sure enough the same results as you. Hopefully Keith will look into this as well as replace the lost lighting effects that happen in the update.

Thanks! I’m always glad to find out that I’m not crazy.

A fix for the lost lighting effects will be in the next release.

Will we ever get to install a lockup-free version of WoZ 6.xx on the original run machines that have problems with the newer Linux kernel introduced in all 6.xx versions (5.xx and below were fine)?

So wierd as it never happens to me following your steps.

Maybe it’s being triggered by a setting? I’m using ball in reserve mode, maybe the issues doesn’t manifest in that mode... will try switching back.

I’m using balls in reserve. That is weird. You are on the latest release, right? Not a beta version? Since it’s happening to at least one other person, it must be a code issue.

It could be there is some other setting, but I’m not sure what that would be. I’ve given myself a 10 second ball save, but I let that expire before I try. Do you have a ball save, and if so, do you let it expire before trying?

I'll double check to make sure I didn't go back to the beta or anything like that but I don't know why I would have. Ball save is a difference as do not have any ball save on, I'll try turning that on and see if it happens then.

Well I’m on 6.5 and tried both ball in reserve and ball in play plus tried adding a ball save.

To confirm, without looking back up at your directions, here is what I’m trying:

- Start a new game, no balls held in locks.
- Lock Lion, then lock Scarecrow, tin man not yet enabled.
- push ball up ramp, letting two release from lock so that one ball is left in lock
- let one ball drain and shoot the ramp (tin man still not enabled).

Not sure what to try now, sorry I wasn’t much help here, still pretty sure this has happened to me before though.

That sounds right. For kicks, you could try it with just one ball initially locked. Not sure why it is not happening for you, but happening for others.

One last thing to try. I’m pretty sure all of the times I tried it, Scarecrow was left unlocked. When I get home, I can try by locking scarecrow to see if that makes a difference.

A difference could be when getting the 2 balls out of the lock. Maybe ball movement in the lock confuses things - with 2 or 3 optos being triggered, it may assume there are still 2 balls in there. There probably isn't a ball check/count on drain.

I just tried by locking scarecrow first, and it still happened.

However, I noticed something. When it releases two balls, it seems to know and puts a ball save on for a few seconds. So, if you let both released balls drain the normal way, it will kick one back into play. I assume others have this feature. merccat , please try sending the ball up the ramp once that ball save turns off (if you haven't already). Anyway, for those who have the problem, until the code gets fixed, the solution seems to be to just let both balls drain and have one kicked back into play.

OK, we tried duplicating this issue both on 6.5 and the development latest. We are unable to do so on our machine here. Everything I tried relating to locking balls, kicking them out, etc. worked just as I expected.

At this point I have to assume something else is wrong. It would help if someone could provide a video of the failure to watch and get some clue as to what's going on here.

Here's a video:

One thing I do is I roll the ball up the ramp when the shoot again light is off. If you roll the ball up the ramp right away with the shoot again light on, it kicks a ball into the shooter lane and things seem to work from there.

One other thing: I have the pindemption dongle. I doubt that matters, but I thought I would mention it as it might be a difference between my machine and others.

Thumps up and repeat sent in a general tech notice about this but all other questions got answered but this one.

They NEVER address trying to fix the core problem. I've volunteered to swap out hardware to try TH motherboard type, even (because I believe it's a chipset issue with the new Linux kernel they went to, based on PC users complaining about the same issues). I even bought a motherboard to be ready to do a swap that never came. Very frustrating on a pretty major support issue for routed WoZ, especially.

Thanks, ballsaver is the missing part here.

Oh good. I'm glad that helped. Does that mean you were able to replicate it, and it is a software issue?

I just had another weird one where two balls were released from the arm, I got one immediately captured by the monkey and kept playing with the other one. Then I hit the ramp, and it didn’t notice the ball was held by the arm. Eventually, it went into ball search mode and released both balls. I do think there is something messed up when it accidentally releases two balls.

Do you think I should hold off on a WOZ 75th 2.0 RR purchase . I absolutely would like to see what is going on by JJP tech from the video you sent .

No. Don’t worry about those slight bugs. They are rare occurrences happening somewhat more frequently for me because I recently waxed so a fast ball up the ramp sometimes releases two balls. I haven’t found the sweet spot yet for adjusting the timing of the arm.

Besides, it sounds like they are going to get fixed. JJP code support is great. The game’s code is fantastic. One of the best coded games out there.

It boils down to this:

You have lots of games already but you tend to avoid working on them (nothing wrong with that at all). Sounds like you've been pretty lucky to avoid any major issues with your current games.

Woz is no different, you may get it and have no issues what-so-ever. But on the flip side, something could come loose in transit, something might need adjusting. Something could come up with the castle doors which would require you to remove the upper PF.

Are you willing to: A) get your hands a little dirty if needed, most of the technical parts people here (or JJP) can easily walk you through. B) reach out to other pinsiders nearby to ask for assistance? C) Pay a pinball repair tech when you need help.

If you are down for any combo of A, B or C.. then go for it. If not, then I would take a pass.

I will say this, my first pin was my TSPP, and the first time taking off the upper PF was scary (being my first pin and completely green when it comes to pins) but in the end, it's all screws, coords, plugs and gears. If you are willing to learn and have the time and patience, you can do it.

Yes, it's a software issue. You can avoid the problem (for now) by turning off the ball saver.

Ah, thanks. Unfortunately, without the ball saver, I have other problems purely relating to my own abilities.

Just saw that 6.6 is out which, from the release notes, seems to fix the bugs and add a few things as well. Sweet! Thanks JJP!