(Topic ID: 191771)

WOZ code update 6.5


By FalconPunch

2 years ago



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There are 294 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 6.
#201 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Ok thanks. Would full updates also change lifetime play stats too? If so seems like you can never get a true read on how many plays the machine has

You can save your settings which I believe saves the lifetime plays as well before you back up, but if you are looking for a used pin, you should never go by the stated number of plays, as people might not have saved properly.

#202 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

It sounds like it's just changing the way extra balls are played. Instead of them being immediately after current ball, they're shoved to the end of the regular 3-ball game. That way, if you have a 4p game and P1 has 3 extra balls and nobody else has any, players 2 3 and 4 don't have to sit there bored to tears waiting on this one guy to play 3 extra balls, he just gets them after player 4 finishes their last ball.

It also allows a player to join in at any time. If you're on ball 2 and a friend comes in and wants to play he can instantly join and will start his game after you drain. Players always alternate so nobody sits waiting for multiple balls from one player to another.

#203 2 years ago
Quoted from vireland:

JJP is DEFINITELY aware of the issue. I talked to Jack about it at PAGG trying to get it some attention after messing with it for almost a year (installing the latest 6.xx, finding it was still there, then reverting to 5.05 so we had a reliable machine, every time a new 6.xx came out), and Lloyd's WoZ has the same problem.
Definitely post or PM me when you try 5.05. I'm 99% sure that will fix the issue for you. The Ubuntu core they moved to starting with 6.00 has documented issues with drivers that cause this exact problem for PC users, too, so I'm certain that's the problem. It's also likely the reason for the annoying Hobbit sound popping that happens if you leave it on - also a documented issue with that flavor of Ubuntu. There ARE workarounds posted from PC users having the issues with their computers that seem to work, so it's super-frustrating this issue is still a "thing" on some WoZ machines.

I don't doubt for a second that JJP is completely aware of the issue. Talking to the right person and actually getting something done about it is a whole other thing.

Having one game on location doing this should be enough to set a fire under their asses and get this resolved. Especially since it seems like they know the cause and a fix is available.

How many people need to be turned off by a game that steals money before there's action? I've seen this issue take a game that was by far the top earner in the location, to having to be pulled because people refused to risk putting in their money any longer, and earnings dropped to a miniscule fraction of what they where, and should be.

JJP needs to do better than this. It's very difficult to win back trust once it's lost.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#204 2 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

How many people need to be turned off by a game that steals money before there's action? I've seen this issue take a game that was by far the top earner in the location, to having to be pulled because people refused to risk putting in their money any longer, and earnings dropped to a miniscule fraction of what they where, and should be.
JJP needs to do better than this. It's very difficult to win back trust once it's lost.

That's not rhetorical, it happened with The Hobbit. On the route I help with, the sound popping issue was so annoying people quickly just refused to play it. I was going in daily to reboot it manually (the problem happens after some time on) to minimize it happening, but eventually it was just too much of a hassle, and it was sent to a home where it probably would never have the issue (since people don't leave pins on 24/7 at home, usually). Neither issue so far with Dialed In (popping or lockups), so fingers crossed.

#205 2 years ago
Quoted from vireland:

That's not rhetorical, it happened with The Hobbit. On the route I help with, the sound popping issue was so annoying people quickly just refused to play it. I was going in daily to reboot it manually (the problem happens after some time on) to minimize it happening, but eventually it was just too much of a hassle, and it was sent to a home where it probably would never have the issue (since people don't leave pins on 24/7 at home, usually). Neither issue so far with Dialed In (popping or lockups), so fingers crossed.

I though Keith implemented a temporary fix that automatically reboots the game after it's been in for so long and nobody is playing (I.e. At like 3AM it would happen)?

#206 2 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

I though Keith implemented a temporary fix that automatically reboots the game after it's been in for so long and nobody is playing (I.e. At like 3AM it would happen)?

He did, but because it happens somewhat randomly, it often locked up BEFORE the reboot time, killing the machine until a hard boot. So, it needs a fix to the root problem, not a weird Microsoft "we can't fix this, so let's just reboot your car software at forced intervals" level fix. <-- not a joke, that really happened.

And to be clear, it's not a hard lock, but some kind of loop because SOME functions (attract light show) still work. Just most of them don't.

#207 2 years ago

I'm enjoying the update. I like the floating scores.

IMG_1551 (resized).JPG

#208 2 years ago
Quoted from vireland:

He did, but because it happens somewhat randomly, it often locked up BEFORE the reboot time, killing the machine until a hard boot. So, it needs a fix to the root problem, not a weird Microsoft "we can't fix this, so let's just reboot your car software at forced intervals" level fix. <-- not a joke, that really happened.
And to be clear, it's not a hard lock, but some kind of loop because SOME functions (attract light show) still work. Just most of them don't.

Even in my limited home use, I would occasionally get a random " frozen" screen ( game still playing), and rare, random reset on frenzied multiball. Hoping this code version cures this.

Scheduled reboots are part of pm services in items from computers at enterprise level to mobile devices in my world. The first words from tech support team " have you done a reboot?" Certainly not unique to pinball ( as you have pointed out)...technology with a price...

#209 2 years ago

I like the concept of daily high scores but frankly was getting tired of constantly entering my initials even for mediocre games. I only play a couple times a day. I wasn't sure if I wanted to turn them off though. So, I upped the minimum score requirement for a daily high score to 100,000 and problem solved.

I do really like the concept and will probably lower it when friends are over. I think it will be really cool on location as well.

#210 2 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Certainly not unique to pinball ( as you have pointed out)...technology with a price...

It's lazy coding (at some level). Industrial computer devices run for decades without needing to be rebooted. Bally/Williams pins were rock solid and could run for months or years without locking up. But while middleware and open source have made the job easier, they've introduced instability and difficulty getting to the root of elusive bugs. Requiring rebooting to housekeep code should never be acceptable, but it's becoming moreso just because it's so widespread. That's sad.

#211 2 years ago
Quoted from vireland:

It's lazy coding (at some level). Industrial computer devices run for decades without needing to be rebooted. Bally/Williams pins were rock solid and could run for months or years without locking up. But while middleware and open source have made the job easier, they've introduced instability and difficulty getting to the root of elusive bugs. Requiring rebooting to housekeep code should never be acceptable, but it's becoming moreso just because it's so widespread. That's sad.

Gonna have to disagree. Comparing a modern pin to a B/W is like comparing a fire cracker to a tomahawk cruise missile. They essentially both do the same thing, but are both utilized on opposite sides of the spectrum. I am ok with the JJP bugs because I know from their track record they will be fixed and rectified not only in do course but in a timely manner. Unlike JJP's competitor which has a failing reputation in the code department.

#212 2 years ago
Quoted from capguntrooper:

Gonna have to disagree. Comparing a modern pin to a B/W is like comparing a fire cracker to a tomahawk cruise missile. They essentially both do the same thing, but are both utilized on opposite sides of the spectrum. I am ok with the JJP bugs because I know from their track record they will be fixed and rectified not only in do course but in a timely manner. Unlike JJP's competitor which has a failing reputation in the code department.

This isn't a post about JJP bug fixes. From personal experience, JJP is a premium operation for code fixes compared to Stern (or anyone else for that matter). It's more about how middleware, higher level languages insulated from the system they're running on, and hardware complexity have made it more difficult to make rock-solid software that doesn't NEED to be rebooted. Memory leaks and faulty garbage collection happen way more than they should. The Microsoft EDGE in-car fiasco was supposedly due to memory leaks they couldn't fix. Ford just fired them and used a new vendor.

#213 2 years ago
Quoted from vireland:

This isn't a post about JJP bug fixes. From personal experience, JJP is a premium operation for code fixes compared to Stern (or anyone else for that matter). It's more about how middleware, higher level languages insulated from the system they're running on, and hardware complexity have made it more difficult to make rock-solid software that doesn't NEED to be rebooted. Memory leaks and faulty garbage collection happen way more than they should. The Microsoft EDGE in-car fiasco was supposedly due to memory leaks they couldn't fix. Ford just fired them and used a new vendor.

This particular issue is a low-level OS implementation of the audio system though; Ubuntu now uses that new audio engine, which just has problems that haven't been fixed

#214 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

This particular issue is a low-level OS implementation of the audio system though; Ubuntu now uses that new audio engine, which just has problems that haven't been fixed

The Ubuntu problem with the audio has been an issue with the kernel used since about April 2016 or so. There are workarounds on the web for PC users.

#215 2 years ago
Quoted from vireland:

The Ubuntu problem with the audio has been an issue with the kernel used since about April 2016 or so. There are workarounds on the web for PC users.

Yes but since ubuntu 16.04 uses pulseaudio 8, it's a huge deal to try to backport (frontport?) to pulseaudio 9, and the workarounds don't seem to be reliable enough to put into a machine that has to work "all the time". Anyway it's annoying, I dont disagree

#216 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Yes but since ubuntu 16.04 uses pulseaudio 8, it's a huge deal to try to backport (frontport?) to pulseaudio 9, and the workarounds don't seem to be reliable enough to put into a machine that has to work "all the time". Anyway it's annoying, I dont disagree

From what I read, it seems that the problems are related to the intel power save/sleep system for audio. Disabling that solved the issue for many of the people on PCs.

#217 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

This particular issue is a low-level OS implementation of the audio system though; Ubuntu now uses that new audio engine, which just has problems that haven't been fixed

Quoted from vireland:

The Ubuntu problem with the audio has been an issue with the kernel used since about April 2016 or so. There are workarounds on the web for PC users.

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Yes but since ubuntu 16.04 uses pulseaudio 8, it's a huge deal to try to backport (frontport?) to pulseaudio 9, and the workarounds don't seem to be reliable enough to put into a machine that has to work "all the time". Anyway it's annoying, I dont disagree

Quoted from vireland:

From what I read, it seems that the problems are related to the intel power save/sleep system for audio. Disabling that solved the issue for many of the people on PCs.

Sometimes I don't feel like I belong on these forums.

#218 2 years ago
Quoted from vireland:

From what I read, it seems that the problems are related to the intel power save/sleep system for audio. Disabling that solved the issue for many of the people on PCs.

Really? I'll read a little bit more- that would also be a huge issue for JJP as there's no way to disable that from the os/content updates they do

#219 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Really? I'll read a little bit more- that would also be a huge issue for JJP as there's no way to disable that from the os/content updates they do

The ones that had success eliminating the sound popping on PCs ran command line switches to turn off the sleep/power management features of the intel chipset. There were a good number reporting success.

Similar case with the video problems on WoZ 6.xx. I think it's related to the Ubuntu kernel issues with video sleep/power management as there are a fair number of users online that have disabled that power management/sleep for video chipset and it stopped the lockups (which aren't really lockups but some kind of loop that makes PCs (and WoZ) partially unresponsive).

All these problems started with the move to the current Ubuntu kernel. It's definitely the root of the issue and where the fix will have to happen.

#220 2 years ago

I saw a really cool match routine today that I havn,t noticed before. When the machine matched the tornado cracked the back glass. It was well done with the correct sound (cracking glass) and of course the knocker. Is this part of the ver 6.5 code ?

#221 2 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

I saw a really cool match routine today that I havn,t noticed before. When the machine matched the tornado cracked the back glass. It was well done with the correct sound (cracking glass) and of course the knocker. Is this part of the ver 6.5 code ?

Been around since the beginning.

#222 2 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Been around since the beginning.

Yep...scared the crap out of me the first time it happened.....

#223 2 years ago

It's very realistic! Nice job guys!

#224 2 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Yep...scared the crap out of me the first time it happened.....

It still scares the crap out of me.

#225 2 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

It still scares the crap out of me.

I relocated my knocker to the cabinet side w a plate as well....sort of cringe every time I match....

#226 2 years ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

It's very realistic! Nice job guys!

When newcomers come in to play WOZ that don't know WOZ and they get a match on WOZ, I'll look at them and say "What the HECK did you just do to my screen?!?!" LOL

#227 2 years ago

Having an issue with the winkie drop target during the witch melt mode. When I'm required to shoot the castle and lock the ball the winkie target won't drop down. Game started to get an electrical smell and the coils for the winkie target were super hot.

Only fought the witch once or twice with 6.11 and the coil being locked on never happened to me until tonight. After it first occured I decided to update to 6.50 and do a test with the glass off and it happens 100% of the time. The winkie target acts perfectly normal during every other game mode.

Is this a software glitch or do I have something setup wrong in my game?

#228 2 years ago

Sounds like something wrong with the winki release solonoid or latch. Does it go down in test mode?

I haven't gotten to melt the witch with 6.5 but it was fine with the beta.

#229 2 years ago

I've also noticed a problem with my Winkie drop target during melt the witch. The target only drops about half way when I hit it. I have to hit it a couple more times to get it to drop completely and let me lock the ball in the castle VUK. It works flawlessly for the entire game until that crucial melt the witch lock shot. It's happened to me 3 times now. Very frustrating and I'm not sure it's a problem with the game or just a huge coincidence that it only happens when I'm trying to melt the witch.

#230 2 years ago

I wonder if coil timing or strength on the latch release changed and whether its something we can adjust in settings?

#231 2 years ago
Quoted from Jakers:

I've also noticed a problem with my Winkie drop target during melt the witch. The target only drops about half way when I hit it. I have to hit it a couple more times to get it to drop completely and let me lock the ball in the castle VUK. It works flawlessly for the entire game until that crucial melt the witch lock shot. It's happened to me 3 times now. Very frustrating and I'm not sure it's a problem with the game or just a huge coincidence that it only happens when I'm trying to melt the witch.

Yes this is the exact behavior.

It definitely seems to only happen during the witch melt mode and only when it's time to shoot the castle.

#232 2 years ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

Yes this is the exact behavior.
It definitely seems to only happen during the witch melt mode and only when it's time to shoot the castle.

I just tested it with mine and it worked perfectly, no drop target problems during that or during Rescue MB when it immediately pops it back up when hit. Have you gone into test mode and tested the release solenoid to see if the target drops cleanly then? Also make sure the sticker (if you have one) on the target is not loose at the bottom and hanging up occasionally. The fact that you have to hit the target multiple times to make it drop sounds like a mechanical problem and it's so far been a coincidence that it only happened during MTW.

#233 2 years ago

Well, I just tested the drop target in settings and it worked 100%. Then I took off the glass and replicated melting the witch 3 times and all 3 times it worked correctly. I guess I just have bad luck when it comes time to melt the witch in a real game.

#234 2 years ago

Melt the with is the only time the game itself attempts to knock the target down (outside of ballsearch) ... other modes, it simply resets when the player knocks it down. Could be a bug keeping the knockdown coil energized too long during MtW.

#235 2 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

The fact that you have to hit the target multiple times to make it drop sounds like a mechanical problem and it's so far been a coincidence that it only happened during MTW.

I doubt it's a coincidence. The drop target behaves correctly except during the specific shot to the castle. During any other part of the mode it doesn't happen. I was able to repeat this behavior five times last night. Also before each test I checked underneath and ran the test mode to check as well.

I can only recreate this problem during the castle shot for the witch. I can bash on the drop target during any other modes and it's fine. Too consistent to be a random coincidence.

2 weeks later
#236 2 years ago

I am not sure what the general consensus is on this update is. Worth it or not? Can a poll be added?

#237 2 years ago
Quoted from Farmboss:

I am not sure what the general consensus is on this update is. Worth it or not? Can a poll be added?

It's definitely worth it, but I do miss the twinkly lights that we have already complained about and which are going to be fixed. Whether you update now or wait for the fix, ultimately you should update.

#238 2 years ago

Delta install is not working for me. I can't try a full install as I only have a 2gig usb right now. Bummer.

#239 2 years ago
Quoted from Farmboss:

Delta install is not working for me. I can't try a full install as I only have a 2gig usb right now. Bummer.

Try a different USB or re-download. Incompatible USB or bad download can cause updates not to work.

#240 2 years ago

So it seems 6.5 is still locking up on some early run machines. 5.05 is the last completely stable release. The wait for 6.51 begins...

#241 2 years ago

Glad you said that, I have #95 so I think I will hold off.

#242 2 years ago
Quoted from Farmboss:

Glad you said that, I have #95 so I think I will hold off.

The number doesn't matter. It's the build date that tells the actual age. In a home environment you're fine. This really is only an issue on routes where the machine is on for a long time.

#243 2 years ago
Quoted from Farmboss:

Delta install is not working for me. I can't try a full install as I only have a 2gig usb right now. Bummer

Make sure your usb is formatted to FAT32 not NTSF!!

#244 2 years ago

It used to be that if Extra Ball was lit and you were in save Toto mode, you could still hit the throne room to get an extra ball. I just tried that with the new code and couldn't do it. I wonder if that was a purposeful change. I wouldn't be surprised if so. I always thought it was a bit weird that you could still collect extra ball while in Toto or TNPLH.

1 week later
#245 2 years ago

Hello,

I recently updated to 6.50 from a much older version and now suddenly the ejector into the shooting lane is extremely soft. I didn't have this issue before and a quick scan of the threads here didn't seem to mention this issue with the code. I'm not a great pin mechanic so outside of code changes messing something else what should I look for?

#246 2 years ago

Go into the coil settings menu and turn up the trough VUK strength. It defaults to 8 or thereabouts in later software versions, try bumping it up to 16-18 and then tweak it from there depending on how smoothly your trough kicks the ball out to the shooter lane.

#247 2 years ago

An update on the v6.5 (v5.05 and up actually) freezing issue. Installed v5.05 on a location game with freezing issues and have had no freezing since.

Has been running solid for several weeks now.

Hours of troubleshooting, countess emails back and forth to JJP, and I had all but given up. HUGE thanks to vireland for the heads up, info, and help on this.

This one game had gone from consistent best earner on location to having to be pulled due to people refusing to put money into it because of the freezing.

I have yet to see JJP even acknowledge this let alone confirm a fix is coming. COMPLETELY unacceptable in my opinion.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#248 2 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

An update on the v6.5 (v5.05 and up actually) freezing issue. Installed v5.05 on a location game with freezing issues and have had no freezing since.
Has been running solid for several weeks now.
Hours of troubleshooting, countess emails back and forth to JJP, and I had all but given up. HUGE thanks to vireland for the heads up, info, and help on this.
This one game had gone from consistent best earner on location to having to be pulled due to people refusing to put money into it because of the freezing.
I have yet to see JJP even acknowledge this let alone confirm a fix is coming. COMPLETELY unacceptable in my opinion.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Thanks for posting the update. I was pulling my hair out until I figured out it was the Ubuntu core they updated to starting with all 6.xx versions. Once I hit on that, I rolled back to 5.05 and it's been rock solid again. JJP KNOWS what the problem is, I have no idea why they don't hire a Linux guru to work around it. There are many workarounds for the same problem on PCs running this Ubuntu core and they work. There's no reason at all one couldn't be used on WoZ so the people with affected machines can get onto a current version. I won't touch 6.xx again until there's a confirmed fix.

BTW, Hobbit also had problems with the Ubuntu core that caused popping in the sound driver. It's one of the reasons we sent Hobbit away - JJP couldn't fix it.

#249 2 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

An update on the v6.5 (v5.05 and up actually) freezing issue. Installed v5.05 on a location game with freezing issues and have had no freezing since.
Has been running solid for several weeks now.
Hours of troubleshooting, countess emails back and forth to JJP, and I had all but given up. HUGE thanks to vireland for the heads up, info, and help on this.
This one game had gone from consistent best earner on location to having to be pulled due to people refusing to put money into it because of the freezing.
I have yet to see JJP even acknowledge this let alone confirm a fix is coming. COMPLETELY unacceptable in my opinion.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Is v5.05 available for download anywhere?

#250 2 years ago
Quoted from apinballwiz:

Is v5.05 available for download anywhere?

I think it's down, but PM me if you're having lockup issues. It will fix them. I can put it up and give you a link to download it.

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