Wizard of Oz
Jersey Jack, 2013At about game 300 the castle doors have stopped closing all the way.
However they do actually close on start-up once in awhile.
They do not appear to be loose and work properly in the door tests.
They just hang there like an un-latched gate.
Any solutions for this?
mine stay "soft" for about 5 seconds after you have bashed the doors to open, put in kick hole and ejected out. If you hit the doors immediately after there is the chance it pushes through the "soft" closed doors, and gets caught behind. I installed a little plastic clip on the post behind doors to deflect it back into the hole. Not sure this is normal either?
From the outside the doors seem solid.
It seems strange that they will go into place once in a great while.
Must be hanging up on something under the mini playfield?
Its also odd that its both doors at the same time.
They are hanging up on the latch mech under the doors. Pull the playfield out enough so you can see inside the door mech. No need to pull the upper playrrield. You can stick your finger or a real small flathead screwdriver in there and work the mech up and down. sometimes it gets cocked off to one side a bit. make sure it's centered and also pull it down just a but bending it slightly down away from the door flanges. Work it a few times then make sure the doors are closed and the latch is centered and back in place. This will usually be enough to right that latch mech. That's how I fixed mine about 25 games ago and it's now closing all the way after closing and no soft close at all. The soft close is not a normal function but a malfunction of the latch mech not fully latching...at least on my game they are either open or closed, no inbetween...
Tom
This sounds exactly like an issue I was having recently. Doors will open, but they don't fully close.
Here's what I found on mine. Remove the upper playfield. Turn it over and look at the return springs on the doors. In the picture below, you can see how the return spring has rotated and is now touching the door latch. This prevents the door from fully closing.
woz_door_spring.jpg
Here's a closer look.
woz_spring_closeup.jpg
The solution for me was to unhook the spring from the opposite end, rotate it once clockwise (for the left door) and to re-attach the spring. This forces the spring to rotate away from the door latch at the other end.
woz_spring_rotate.jpg
I found that small priority mail boxes are the perfect size to jack up the back of the game, to se inside the mini PF.
After closer examination I found that the screw that holds the latch coil had come loose.
It would move slightly when pressed with a small screwdriver after freeing the doors.
The loose coil allows the latch to tilt forward and let the doors pass over it.
This explains why the problem is intermittent.
So, if you have to periodically use a small screwdriver to depress the latch to free the doors, the latch coil is possibly loose.
I had to remove the castle PF to tighten the screw.
Pay close attention to the location of the coil/latch assembly. Its possible to mount it off center then the doors will bind.
I added blue loctite to it on re-assembly, I think it will hold for a good long time.
It was a bit of a job for a loose screw but after many games the doors are rock solid.
Good job. I just saw your post same problem with mine. Both of the screws came loose, I did the same fix added a little loctite. I had a older post that explained problem and fix a while back. I also used blue.
Due to the importance of this single screw, and the difficulty of tightening it in the field, I would have considered putting a star lock washer on it from the factory. Its not a clearance issue.
Quoted from pinballinreno:I found that small priority mail boxes are the perfect size to jack up the back of the game, to se inside the mini PF.
On closer examination, you dont have to remove the castle playfield to to access a loose latch coil.
You can get to it from the big cut-out underneath.
I am having a similar problem on my new WOZECLE.
The right castle door is soft, does not shut tightly like the left door. In fact, the position of the door on the switch is causing intermittent RESCUE mode to start as the vibration from pressing the left flipper will make the game think I am smashing the left castle door and award 15 points. Absolutely no fun to play the game like this so at a standstill.
I also notice the "soft" close on the left door from time to time.
So I am going to have to remove the castle playfield today to see whats going on here.
From what I have read, it sounds like I need to check the springs , the position of the rotated spring possibly rubbing on the door latch(s), loctite the screws or add a star washer to prevent them loosening up again?
Thanks for any input!
Quoted from pinballinreno:PF_jack1.jpg 8 KB
Pic is a little dark and can't see exactly what you did there. Are you lifting the main playfield higher out of the cabinet and resting it on those boxes on both sides of the playfield?
Yes.
I lifted the back of the pf while it was extended out and rested the rear on a couple boxes set into the steel slider channel.
this way I can see into the castle pf for examination.
Just don't lift it too high it might fall forward.
check the door coil for motion with a small screwdriver or probe, it shouldn't rock or move at all.
a slightly loose door coil will case one door to be unlatched all the time.
if the door coil is loose you can reach the mounting screw without removing anything, with the pf in the fully upright position. the screw is accessible thru the regular large cut out under the castle pf.
The spring was the problem on the right castle door rubbing, just like Robert Winter pointed out.
Rotated the other end of the spring so it would move away from the door latch.
Right door appears to be working fine. I actually rotated spring two turns to make sure it was a little tighter and stayed clear of the door latch forever! lol
But the left door is hanging on the door latch. The right door that had the issue opening clears the latch fine but the left door does not. It rubs against the door latch slightly so there will be an issue if I don't bend, file, move something here.
I checked the one screw that holds the base of the coil into the bracket. Tight.
The two screws that hold the latch that pulls towards the solenoid is fine too.
From what I read above, Homebrood bent his down slightly to clear the door flange.
Is this the only way or best way to fix this "hanging" issue?
Seems like it would be.
Which screws are people using Loctite on? I don't want to have to take this playfield off again if I can help it so want to make sure I get it done right the first time. 
All back together and working but the right castle door is doing that "soft" close problem still. But the door is tight and working as it should with the switch.Thought I had bent the lock coil flange bracket down enough to clear but I guess not. Maybe in time as it rubs on the flange it will stick less. I can only hope as I don't want to pull that playfield off again so soon.
Loctite is being used on the door post screws and the coil screw. Use blue loctite or you may not get the screw out again.
My right door is a little soft, but seems ok.
Newer software code seems to address some of this by refreshing the doors periodically in case one is stuck or unlatched.
I can force the doors past the latch with a finger, even when its perfectly working.
So I lowered the flipper strength a bit so that you cant hit the door hard enough to trap the ball behind the latch or the door.
The weaker flipper also makes it easier to play the castle loops with a little nudging works better IMHO.
Quoted from pinballinreno:I can force the doors past the latch with a finger, even when its perfectly working.
So I lowered the flipper strength a bit so that you cant hit the door hard enough to trap the ball behind the latch or the door.
The weaker flipper also makes it easier to play the castle loops with a little nudging works better IMHO.
I noticed that my right door sits a little lower than the left door.
Not sure how to "raise" it or if I need to really.
I am just gonna play it as is for now and see what happens. The BIG problem was the right door spring rubbing causing it to be mushy and activate the switch w/ only vibration before. That's cleared up now.
What coil power settings did you use?
castledoor.jpgIt looks like one door has slipped down. Its definitly out of alignment.
It would be good to find out why and post the result for others to see as these games age.
Unfortunatly you have to remove the castle PF to check on this.
I've removed mine before, its a hassle but not too terribly difficult, just time consuming.
I lowered my PF flipper down 2 or 3 from the original settings. If the flipper settings are too strong the ball bounces out of the loop a lot and wont make a clean orbit.
Set correctly I can (on a good day) make several loops (6-8) in a row easily
Very little pressure is required to activate the door switches as the ball is pretty heavy compared to the switch springs.
Well, I did have the mini castle playfield out over the weekend. JJP shipped me a couple of springs for my doors. Best guess they had without me removing the playfield was right spring was stretched. It was time consuming to pull off the
playfield the first time. I fixed the spring rotation problem (per Robert Winter's post) and tightened the latch coil screw as tight as it would go.Flange seemed fine (cleared both doors - no rubbing) when I pressed it down with a screwdriver (maybe there is a coil power setting for the latch that is set to weak?). So thought I was out of the woods, but tonight, the right door is doing the soft open and when the ball ejected it got stuck behind the door so gonna have to contact JJP on this.
When it was apart, I didn't see anything that would have caused the door drop or any way to adjust it since I didn't notice that until it was all back together.
My right castle door is not fully closing on my new RR machine. I opened a ticket over the weekend but have not heard back from JJP. Here is a video of the door opening and partially closing (when activated from the test menu). I have not attempted to make any fixes but am curious what I should look at first. I would really like to not have to remove the upper play field.
After removing the upper playfield I identified the proble. The door assembly was getting stuck behind the latch (see attached photo) and not moving back to its home position.
I ended up removing the entire door assembly to adjust the limit switch stop but am still not able to get the one door to clear the latch. Here is a video showing the problem.
IMG_0861 (resized).jpgI think you have it there.
The tab is definitely not clearing the latch when energized and it should just like the right side does.
While adjusting the left door up slightly looks like the solution, is the malfunctioning door loose?
If so it probably slipped down and needs to be brought back up and tightened.
The door(s) loosening up and subsequently not operating correctly is a very common issue with WOZ.
You should make sure the other door is tight while you have it disassembled.
If you can't adjust the door up enough to clear the latch consider the other parts of the assembly to make sure that they aren't the issue.
Some ideas include :
Is the latch assembled and setting correctly?
Is the latch bent up higher on the left side?
Is anything preventing the latch from retracting fully when energized?
...
Fnosm - Thanks for the reply. I am not sure why JJP was telling me to adjust the tongue limit stop on the mechanism. Everything originally worked and the other door still works fine. In retrospect it should have been obvious that the problem was with the actual door.
Sure enough, it looks like the screws that attach the door shaft to the motor shaft were not holding and the assembly slipped down a little causing my problems. Before I try and put everything back together, should I grind a flat on the motor shaft to help prevent this from reoccurring?
8CB4E34D-6207-47F3-890F-0CA08F30B739 (resized).jpegDefinitely grind a flat on the motor shafts!
The replacement motors used to come this way, but not any more.
The door shaft height is a little finicky.
Too low and it wont clear the lock and rubs on the bronze bushing, too high and it can rub or slip past the lock bar or rub on the wood.
Ideally the gap between the lockbar and door stop when opened is about 1/4 to 1/3 mm, so the doorstop just clears it.
The whole assembly is a weak design in my opinion.
The shafts slipped down because the assembler was too scared to put any torque on the screw with good reason!
The chinese screws that they use, pop the heads off if you tighten then too much.
The manual calls for a 1/8" x 6-32 set screw (dont use these), these were upgraded to 1/4" or 3/16" x 6-32 hardened hex head screws.
Im using the 1/4" x 6-32 case hardened 12.9 they fit perfectly and are cheaper, but stick out a tiny bit more than the factory ones. So 3/16 if you are anal about it all lol:
I replaced mine with american manufactured hardened steel screws to get a little more torque.
However too much torque just strips out the threads in the cheap steel rods. Be aware of this.
Use blue loctite on everything in the castle playfield.
One thing:
There is a fraction of a second delay when the doors open and the latch actuates.
This is why the door stop height is a bit critical and cant be too close.
If you test coil 051 in coil tests and it doesnt click, this doeasnt mean its bad, its just rubbing a tiny bit.
The test system doesnt do it at full power.
Testing with a ball is the only real test and tapping firmly on the door with a finger to see if you can get it to slip past the latch.
Do not be alarmed if the right castle motor burns out. Oddly this is normal.
It will go a couple thousand plays but will fail.
The castle door motors do not turn off when they hit the stops. They just stall and get hot.
Doing this over and over means that they will have a short life.
When you replace the motor its a good idea to do both at the same time, they are cheap.
Also inspect or replace the rubber door stop pad.
Doing this also insures that they both open at the same rate as they are on a common wire and you dont want one moving slower than the other.
There is no right or left motor test. Its both or none.
If the doors pass like 10 tests they are probably ok.
Quoted from avspin:Monster Bolt also sells on amazon and may be more convent for some.
amazon.com link »
Definitely Amazon!
Thanks avspin
Free shipping!
Get the 20 pack for $3.60
I always put new screws if I take it apart.
Also it pays to get a couple spare door shafts from JJP. If you break off a screw, you will want one.
If you order from JJP also get 20 of the black painted screws for the upper doors.
If you forget they are 6-32 x 1/4" pan head black oxide, painted black.
They are listed in the manual.
Only the motor set screws were updated to the Allen screws.
I got some button head screws for the upper doors but they stripped out too easy. Regular pan head Phillip's is the way to go as long as they are hardened/black.
Monster bolt also has those.
I do like the look of the button head screws for the upper doors.
I bought 50 as a test, I might put them back in lol
Before reading the recent posts I ordered these setscrews for attaching the posts to the motor drive shaft.
https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/tm5hCOYLj8hZpEBgCk1KSq?domain=mcmaster.com
Do you see any issue with using them? They get delivered today.
Quoted from Gotfrogs:Before reading the recent posts I ordered these setscrews for attaching the posts to the motor drive shaft.
https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/tm5hCOYLj8hZpEBgCk1KSq?domain=mcmaster.com
Do you see any issue with using them? They get delivered today.
Do not use setscrews you cant get enough torque on them for the double doors.
The factory stopped installing them early on.
Quoted from Gotfrogs:Also,would it be ok to use this?[quoted image]
Do not use purple thread locker on these screws.
They are too small to not break the heads off later on when disassembling.
The motors burn out periodically.
Use blue color. It's for small screws.
My bad - I thought that was red didn't look closely enough. I always use blue in situations like these.
Quoted from Gotfrogs:This is purple threadlocker, it says it is low strength, removable and for small screws. The blue stuff says it is medium strength. I am not sure why people are recommending against the purple which I already have on hand.
You can try it, but I use blue in all cases and havent had any issues and it holds well on flipper coil stops as well as the castle door screws.
I also thought the purple was like the red.
Purple might not hold enough, its a pain to keep pulling the castle playfield due to loose screws.
2 videos of misbehavior "fixing itself":
Related issue.
In my case, the right door doesn't OPEN all the way.
Early ECLE, game has been fine for years until about a week ago.
Right castle door opens about halfway when doors open.
Door is not binding--I can manually easily swing it back to its fully open position & it will spring back to this halfway position (presumably resting on the backside of the door lock bracket?).
Game will misbehave for a period.
Then game "fixes itself" & is fine for a period.
Then not fine for a period.
That is, the misbehavior isn't randomly interspersed between good behavior. It stays good or stays bad for a period of many many cycles.
I pulled the castle PF:
- Tightened door shaft set screws (they were already tight) & added threadlocker.
- Found both motor mt. screws loose. Tightened & added threadlocker.
- Didn't see anything else amiss.
After reassembly, it tested OK for a while & then misbehaved again.
Propping up the PF & pulling down the castle door lock bracket w/ a screwdriver, it seems to have plenty of clearance for the door stop paddles, so I don't *think* the right door is rubbing on it during opening.
What do you think?
Thanks!
-Jason
Quoted from jasonbar:2 videos of misbehavior "fixing itself":
Related issue.
In my case, the right door doesn't OPEN all the way.
Early ECLE, game has been fine for years until about a week ago.
Right castle door opens about halfway when doors open.
Door is not binding--I can manually easily swing it back to its fully open position & it will spring back to this halfway position (presumably resting on the backside of the door lock bracket?).
Game will misbehave for a period.
Then game "fixes itself" & is fine for a period.
Then not fine for a period.
That is, the misbehavior isn't randomly interspersed between good behavior. It stays good or stays bad for a period of many many cycles.
I pulled the castle PF:
- Tightened door shaft set screws (they were already tight) & added threadlocker.
- Found both motor mt. screws loose. Tightened & added threadlocker.
- Didn't see anything else amiss.
After reassembly, it tested OK for a while & then misbehaved again.
Propping up the PF & pulling down the castle door lock bracket w/ a screwdriver, it seems to have plenty of clearance for the door stop paddles, so I don't *think* the right door is rubbing on it during opening.
What do you think?
Thanks!
-Jason
I replace my motors when they do that. It always seems to be the one on the right.
Some of the bad motors I replaced had the armature come loose inside the motor. Sometimes it grabs, then it fails.
If the screws are tight then I think that the motor needs to be replaced. There isnt a way to fix the motor easily.
I ususally replace them in pairs. It has to do with the way voltage is applied to the circuit.
You dont want one motor stealing power from the other.
One time i replaced a right motor. When I tested it, the problem remained. It was the left motor that was killing the right that time.
Old used motors can pull more power than brand new ones. They have to work at the same time.
The new motor will be slightly different than the motors in your game probably.
Grinding a flat on the motor shaft is a good idea.
Its a weak enough design as it is.
Thanks tons, pinballinreno.
You seem to know this machine inside & out--thanks for all of your valuable forum posts.
I was hoping to not have to take the castle PF out again, but oh well--at least it will be a bit faster & easier the 2nd time around. :]
-Jason
Update:
I put in 2 new castle door motors.
Hardest part was transferring the capacitors from the old motors to the new; motor can = great heat sink.
I don't play often, so I didn't want to report resulting performance prematurely, but I've had zero door problems since the motor swap, so I consider it fixed. (And I've been focusing on beating up on those doors when I play.)
Thanks,
Jason
Quoted from jasonbar:Update:
I put in 2 new castle door motors.
Hardest part was transferring the capacitors from the old motors to the new; motor can = great heat sink.
I don't play often, so I didn't want to report resulting performance prematurely, but I've had zero door problems since the motor swap, so I consider it fixed. (And I've been focusing on beating up on those doors when I play.)
Thanks,
Jason
Interesting.
All of my new motors have the capacitors pre-installed.
In fact the new motors I just got have newer better caps on them.
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