(Topic ID: 91906)

WOZ Castle Doors Not Opening/Closing Fully (SOLVED)

By pinballinreno

9 years ago


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There are 67 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 4 years ago

On reassembly:

Lowering the right door just slightly from the left helps the latch work a lot better.

Maybe 1/32" lower.
It may look imperfect but underneath it works perfect.

It keeps it from hanging up and doing the partial close thing.

Or staying slightly open so that the ball search has to clear it.

9 months later
#52 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I can force the doors past the latch with a finger, even when its perfectly working.
So I lowered the flipper strength a bit so that you cant hit the door hard enough to trap the ball behind the latch or the door.
The weaker flipper also makes it easier to play the castle loops with a little nudging works better IMHO.

I followed your tip (thank you for all your tips and ideas for working the castle door issues). I lowered the castle playfield flipper from 12 (normal) to 9. Still can make all the shots and it ensures the ball doesn't hit the doors too hard. In my case, the weight of the ball at normal power (12) was causing door to "jump" over the latch and cause right door to open partially. As you have said, the latch and doors seem to work best when doors are at different heights. But, I had already lowered the right door as far as possible without touching the wood. I will check the return spring to make sure it's not rubbing on the latch as others have suggested.

So, for now I'm finally 100% on the doors. Now I can add some of the standard mods.

#53 3 years ago

Yes!

I did not address the flipper power.

Too high makes for exciting game play! But it will wear out the right door early.

I have mine at either 7 or 9.

1 year later
#54 2 years ago

I have a different problem than what's mostly discussed in this thread, but using this one to focus on Castle Door problems generally. I just recently bought this machine (my first pin ever, total noob here).

My issue: I had been registering ghost hits on the right castle door. When I bought the machine, it was on version 6.06 or so and no ghost hits. I updated to 7.03-NSE and then it immediately started doing these right door bashes.

Opening it up, it seems like all the door/motor screws seem tight and motor seems to be operating fine (from my beginner perspective).

What appears to be happening is the spring not fully pulling the door back closed; when I lightly tap the door towards 'open' I can hear the switch click for the bash register, but not click back to the closed state (from the spring action) unless I lightly tap on it in the other direction to close it. It kind of gets stuck in the 'middle zone'. Visibly, everything looks fine.

So, I twisted the right door spring a few turns and reattached it. I did a single turn on the left door spring because it seemed a little mushy. This seems to fix the 'middle zone' problem, but now on startup the doors keep opening, saucer firing, doors close. This repeats many times. I don't see anything in the saucer / optical area... is it possible this is triggered by the spring being too tight? Or is it more likely that I donked something else up while I was working inside?

I've pulled the playfield about 4-5 times now (I undid the left door spring twists; reduced the right door twists to a single twist) while trying to troubleshoot that 'middle zone' issue. I'll next try to reset the right spring back to where I started, to see if the ejector startup issue stops (even if the ghost bash returns).

I was about to order a couple door motors, but honestly it just seems like a spring calibration thing (at least my initial problem; I'm not sure about this latest startup issue).

Any experience with this particular door open/close/eject loop issue?

#55 2 years ago

Your game is old enough to merit rebuilding the castle playfield.

With the game turned off, the doors should have no binding, and snap back to the their original location if you open them manually.

Order new springs instead of just stretching them. Old springs get fatigued and its a hassle to keep sorting them out.

Door switches do go bad but the newer ones have slightly stiffer buttons on them which can be problematic.

So, unless a switch is actually bad, I wouldnt replace it yet.

Due to the nature of the mech's operation, the door motors will fail periodically. The right motor seems to fail earlier that the left. Its best to replace them in pairs since its a pain to replace them. Make sure the capacitors are installed and well out of the way. Upon re-installation the left motor sits dangerously close to the metal bracket.

To further examine the castle playfield's operation, I removed it from the game and set it on a cardboard box inside the game with the playfield raised, then plugged it all in after liberating all the cables. Take lots of pictures to re-route the cables later on.

This way I could actually see what was going on from all angles "live" with the power on and do live testing easily.

The active parts (coils and latches) dont easily lose their adjustment, however the door posts can slip down and drag on the wood if the set screws become loose. Use full head allen screws either 3/16" or 1/4" long. Get the hardest ones you can, they do break off and ruin the door post.

Its best to get a couple spare door posts just in case you break off a screw in one.

Upon re-assembly, you can verify that each part operates perfectly before you re-install the door panels.
Get extra door panel screws, you will need a few spares. Use blue loctite on everything.

The right door post must be slightly (1/32" to 3/64") lower than the left. This leads to a slight lowering of the right door panel visually. Its ok, the mech works better this way. Upon close examination you will see than slop in the mech makes it favor one side. The coil plate actuates slightly at an angle.

Take a look at the latch plate that the door stops hit.

There is a rubber piece that wears and throws off the setting of the doors.

Order a couple of these and epoxy it on with a tiny amount of 5 min epoxy, the glue on the replacements is terrible.

I have removed the rubber stop and just let it hit the metal edge, but it throws off the door adjustments without it.

This rubber pad wears at an angle and actually helps the door latch to let the door stop slip past.

Fortunately after renewal it lasts a long time.

With a couple hours of work you can have your castle doors working perfectly for thousands of games.

#56 2 years ago

Thank you SO much for the detailed response! Lots for me to digest here.

Quoted from pinballinreno:

With the game turned off, the doors should have no binding, and snap back to the their original location if you open them manually.

This is definitely NOT how mine is at the moment; when the power is off both doors are bound in place and can just slightly wiggle. (The solo door can open freely). Does that add any further context about my particular problem? I've just ordered a couple door motors either way. I couldn't find the springs for sale, so I asked JJP support if they could toss them in the order.

Quoted from pinballinreno:

Make sure the capacitors are installed and well out of the way.

Total beginner here. Do I need to cut the capacitors off of the old motors and solder them to the new ones when they arrive? Should I order new caps instead? I don't even have a soldering iron, but I do need one for this I presume.

Quoted from pinballinreno:

There is a rubber piece that wears and throws off the setting of the doors.
Order a couple of these

I have gone through the JJP parts shop a few times but can't locate this nor the door posts themselves. Do you have an alternate source you can point me to? Or should I talk to their support even though my machine is old?

Quoted from pinballinreno:

To further examine the castle playfield's operation, I removed it from the game and set it on a cardboard box inside the game with the playfield raised, then plugged it all in after liberating all the cables.

Very good tip, I've been trying to figure out how to test this better without replacing the dang playfield every time. How can you safely turn on the machine with main playfield vertical? I think I tried this and it started trying to eject balls.

Thanks again!

#57 2 years ago

This is an advanced game.

You have to solder on a pinball game. This is normal for all games.

Read the manual for part numbers.

JJP can cross reference them.

Just tell them its from the manual

#58 2 years ago

Take all the balls out

The parts shop has nothing you have to call them

Motors may or may not come eith capacitors.

Mention this when you call.

Supposed to come with them.

#59 2 years ago

The doors are latched shut.

You have to release the latch with a smsll screwdriver to look at them.

Pull the whole thing out so you can look at it.

Open the door to disable the coils.

Pull out the white switch peg to energize them.

#60 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

The doors are latched shut.
You have to release the latch with a smsll screwdriver to look at them.

How does that latch stay open when power is off? I can’t understand what it is supposed to look like but this seems to be an important hint here, that the doors don’t swing open freely when off.

#61 2 years ago
Quoted from prentice:

How does that latch stay open when power is off? I can’t understand what it is supposed to look like but this seems to be an important hint here, that the doors don’t swing open freely when off.

It won't, its spring loaded.

You have to manually actuate it.

Pull the castle playfield out and familiarize yourself with it.

#62 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

It won't, its spring loaded.
You have to manually actuate it.
Pull the castle playfield out and familiarize yourself with it.

Thanks, I misunderstood your first post I think. A ton of valuable information there for me to continue to reference! Thank you again!

Anyhow, I figured out my situation tonight. My extra twist on the spring indeed fixed the ghost-bash issue on the right door (temporary placeholder until I get a spring replacement), but when I had put it all back together, I had put the 4-pin from the castle PF into the wrong slot.

For anyone's future reference, the doors and saucer eject will cycle on boot-up when you put the castle PF 4-pin into the empty RED spot on the main PF connector instead of the BROWN spot.

3 weeks later
#63 2 years ago

The right door was 1/2 opened and not opening.The problem was the motor that opens and closes the dooe was loose.All i had to do was tighten it down and works fine.It was a pain to get to but a easy fix.

#64 2 years ago
Quoted from Crumbalimb:

The right door was 1/2 opened and not opening.The problem was the motor that opens and closes the dooe was loose.All i had to do was tighten it down and works fine.It was a pain to get to but a easy fix.

Yeah, that happens. Also the motor shafts can get loose and need the screws tightened.

6 months later
#65 1 year ago

Wow, I wish I read this thread before attempting to replace my motors. I would agree it is not well designed. It works, but when something doesn't, well it isn't a fun experience.

I found out the head bolts are soft lol. Don't even bother with using them. Replace as suggested in this thread.

I did get them in and they were partially working (one door was dragging a bit) so I pulled the playfield back out. I attempted to adjust the plate height. Now my doors soft close. The stop mech wont pull down. Maybe I damaged the coil? All wiring looks right. I've tried in both door test and coil test. Anyone else have this issue before? It is incredibly difficult to diagnose problems live when you can't see anything below the playfield.

#66 1 year ago
Quoted from mtgedney:

Wow, I wish I read this thread before attempting to replace my motors. I would agree it is not well designed. It works, but when something doesn't, well it isn't a fun experience.
I found out the head bolts are soft lol. Don't even bother with using them. Replace as suggested in this thread.
I did get them in and they were partially working (one door was dragging a bit) so I pulled the playfield back out. I attempted to adjust the plate height. Now my doors soft close. The stop mech wont pull down. Maybe I damaged the coil? All wiring looks right. I've tried in both door test and coil test. Anyone else have this issue before? It is incredibly difficult to diagnose problems live when you can't see anything below the playfield.

I removed the castle playfield, leaned the main playfield against the backbox, stuck a cardboard box in the bottom of the cabinet and set the castle playfield on it and plugged it all in.

Now you can lift and turn it to see whats going on in real time.

#67 1 year ago
Quoted from mtgedney:

I did get them in and they were partially working (one door was dragging a bit) so I pulled the playfield back out. I attempted to adjust the plate height. Now my doors soft close. The stop mech wont pull down. Maybe I damaged the coil? All wiring looks right. I've tried in both door test and coil test. Anyone else have this issue before? It is incredibly difficult to diagnose problems live when you can't see anything below the playfield.

With the playfield out, you can maually actuate pretty much everything with a 9 or 12v battery for testing.

The motors are 20v but they get weak from the contant stalling and periodically need replacement. They operate ok with a 12v battery.

Test the wires and connectors for loose pins and bad crimps.

Its doubtful that the coil is bad they are very robust.

Its likely there is binding, loose coil (held in with a single screw you can reach through a hole) or the latch is out of adjustment. There is an adjustment tab on the coil deep in the mech.

Test it with a battery to see it work.

I had a problem once with the latch coil 51. It barely worked in test and was random in game play.

It turned out that the bad/failing motors were drawing so much power that it "browned out" the entire mech.

This caused everything to be anemic.

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