The idea of any pin being "the best" is kind of silly. It's true that waiting stinks…especially when you've already paid for it. I just waited 6 months for a car, but fortunately I didn't have to pay upfront for it.

JJP clearly delivered on build quality…that's hard to debate. In terms of game play, it's not surprising there are a spectrum of opinions. I don't know of any pinball that is universally loved. Don't know why folks get so upset over opinions (positive or negative)…

All I see are a bunch of guys that are happy with their new pin. Why try and take that away from 'em. I'm glad they're happy and that they crowdsourced a new pinball company.

I hate all pinball machines! JJP, Stern, SkitB, Spooky, Planetary....... it doesn't matter who makes them whenever there is a cool one out I always want more, I need a cheaper hobby! But that's it, this is just a fun expensive hobby for me........all is good.

Now with that being said I still cannot wait for my Predator, my zombie game or that MM game that is not being made by Williams but should be a very close clone.

Might as well just have no artwork on the cabinet at all right? These LE type of machine cost $7.5k+ and artwork like on WOZ being direct printed and clear coated helps justify that cost. I can't see spending the same price on other LE's now that lack the same printing process, use decals, and offer no unique art on both sides.

You lost me a little bit here... I think WOZ is an Awesome game, but all playfields will dimple over time. It seems the faster a playfield dimples the faster the entire playfield evens out and the dimpling becomes less noticeable. I think ST shows it worse than most games because it is so brightly lit.

Rudy said it best, "It's only Pinball."

And one of your primary complaints about the LCD is the smaller back glass. Guess what you don't play the back glass. How do you spell hypocrisy? T e e k e e.

You're right, you don't play the back glass but its nice to have one and I prefer it over the huge LCD. And when you combine a great BG with a terrific playing pin like so many of the latest Sterns you have a winner! I always said that WoZ hit it out of the park with eye candy but unfortunately you can't frame it and hang it on the wall. Eye candy, yes! Playing it is another story for many of us…

No freaking way Teekster, it's awesome, the better you get, sneaking a peak during play to see where you are at and what you need to do is great...game play is right there with Acdc and will surpass it with more code updates...

Get ready to go into sales spin overload as soon as Stern announces, who wouldn't love it? You are full of it...

And it's a terrific playing "winner"

Just drained an epic stack setup on last ball!

Who cares what Teek thinks, complete and total bias and part of the usual dirty dozen, a club that is rapidly shrinking.......

What was your order date?

The Star Trek at the arcade I go to is getting beat. There are screws loose and a little small (thickness of a paperclip) piece of metal at the ball drain came out of bracket.

Sheet of clear plastic? What are you talking about. There's no PF Mylar on woz. Just a real good clear coat.

Time for some Novus playfield cleaner.

pic.jpg

LOL if serious!

Ball dirt trail, clean it.

LTG : )

Novus # 2

after cleaning.jpg

Very cool, will have to look into this game. Also interested in the Hobbit.. ..

I dont Dislike ''There is no place like home'' to the point of letting the ball drain every time, For me its Just too long and can really get you out of your groove while trying to save your ball. I would like maybe a few less things to do and maybe a time limit so it just doesn't drag on forever. Like someone posted above they completed the entire thing then drained their ball in 30seconds. Overall like I stated in my original post I love my game and I cant imagine how epic its gonna be when code is done. To all the haters you don't have to like the game but why post in every positive JJP thread and spew your dislike of it? There are a lot of Stern Games and other companies games I cant stand but Im not gonna post in someones positive thread about a game they like and tell them how crappy I think it is, I just don't see what this accomplishes?

Joe(acejedi)

Nice post Joe! I guess some people just don't want to let us be happy. Strange.

You should have been banned.

OT: went and saw the Desolation of Smaug last night and now I'm even more excited about The Hobbit!
JJP has tons of possibilitys here

You don't play your games anyway so what difference does it make?

KJ did talk about making the targets on Rainbow be awards in groups instead of individually. I don't have that hard of a time lighting those, my nemesis is the throne when I need it.

I think TNPLH could be a progressive reward, like the TOTO outlane. The first time, you only have to light Rainbow. The second time, you have to complete two tasks, etc. That would be a nice middle ground that would probably make most people happy. Of course, you should have the option to turn that off as well so that you can just play it the way it is now, which is fine by me!

Many of us like playing it too Far more then those who for some reason dislike it very much and love to post about why they hate it...

He owns games? I figure he does like the scene from goodfellas, takes them in the front door and out the back for a profit.

I'm willing to part ways with my WOZ "Standard" (well my place in line that is) for $7,300 - that includes a sheet of invisiglass. Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread, but figured folks on the fence might be interested in a NIB machine for $1k less than what any distributor is currently selling them for.

I wasn't....and it has nothing to do with you. You gonna get over it or what? I'm sure Mark appreciates having a groupie but it's a bit odd.

Scorsese loves pinball in his movies. Check out Captain Fantastic in GoodFellas.

Please guys, you don't know a thing about me. Stop guessing and stick with what you know like... like...

What I would like to know about you is just one thing. Have you played a few games WOZ with the latest code?

1.24 not 1.25...

So does that mean you are ready to update your review of WOZ that you did in May 2013? I has changed a lot. I also like your comment about how you do not play the cabinet when talking about WOZ, but in your Metallica Prem review you specifically mention how great it looks. Why does it matter on one machine but not here?

You're missing the point... looking great is only part of it. Number one it has to play great and the rest is icing on the cake. Just because WoZ has a beautiful looking cabinet you think that's reason enough to love it or to own one????

I've always said WoZ looks great with a lot of eye candy but the play is not there for me (and many others) so the eye candy wears off quickly. I am not the only one that thinks that way. A ton of WoZ's have come up for sale lately and will probably continue as more get delivered... its not for everyone whether it looks great or not, sorry.

Personally I think CC and CV are two sweet looking pins but not much else... they play ok at best.

I got your point every time you post it. 1,484,921,007 times and counting

Yep. I recently picked up PMD's badass brass restoration of TOTAN. I think it's the sweetest restoration of the most beautiful pin produced by B/W (my opinion, of course. Played it with my son last night and had a blast. Are the rules and play on par with it's beauty? Not from my perspective. Still a fun pin that's awesome eye candy.

I don't have enough time on WOZ to have an opinion on gameplay. Might be like TZ, where you need sufficient time on it to really appreciate. I didn't love my TZ until I had played it for a couple weeks.

Yeah, TOTAN is another good example... beautiful to look at but I never really thought it was a keeper.

OK am getting it, you have played it and still you don't like this game. That's no problem there are a lot of games out there that I don't like that got praised as the best ever. It's your taste and we have to accept that. I think you are in the minority here, but It's your right to dislike and your personal taste, and it doesn't matter if there are more people that like it or don't. It's the personal taste that is important, I go to forums like this to hear from others what they are thinking of the games I have owned or played in the wild, or want to buy in the future.

What I don't get is why you have to jump on every post from someone new that gives a positive review. we all have read what you think of this game, you can't give us anything new. I can tell you there are more people out that have played it and are thinking now that it's awesome. I would like to hear them. And if they found something negative, I would like to hear that too. We have to accept your taste and you have to accept others. Everytime someone new gives a positiv review you have to jump in and fight. It's almost as if you take this whole thing personaly. You are acting, hmm...strange? I hope this is the right word for it?
I almost think it's some kind of mental illness. It's not because you don't like this game, it's because you have to repeatingly tell us about how much you don't like it that disturbes me. You don't have to show this kind of disorder.
Perhaps this helps you:
I can assure you here, once and for all, we have heard you! You don't have to fight for your opinion in every thread. You think that it's a "no fun" game. You don't have to like it. It's all right if you think so.

There is no need for any of this in the future from you. If there are other people out there that want to give bad reviews, I would like to read them instead. And I also like to read good reviews like the one the OP gave here, because they mirror my opinion of this game. I would just like to here from others than you what they think about this game.

Teekee you repeat yourself, and that is as boring, as me whining for new metallica code.

I played WOZ for the first time last night at silverball museum and in my view, this is the best game ever made. It blows away newer sterns in look and feel ( and I'm a big stern fan, look at my collection; TSPP is close in quality and its literally been trouble free since nib for me.) It was hard to hear because its loud at silverball and I didn't entirely know what I was doing in terms of the rules, but man, it's very cool. It has a lot of shots, some easy some hard, the visuals effects on the screen and playfield are fantastic. The consolation aspect where you get a chance to redeem when you lose a ball (eg, spell rainbow) is very cool. Flipper strength was just fine. Upper playfield is pretty neat as was the monkey grabbing the ball. The enchanted forest bumpers felt much better than stern pops. This was the first time I'd seen color changing LEDs in action, very cool.

If I can find an LE at a decent price, I may jump on it. Wife loved the game too and we both kept pushing start.

My high was 94k, which I assume is pretty bad, but again, didn't know what I was doing.

Good post!

I've stated before how impressed I am with WOZ.

The biggest problem out of the box, from a gameplay perspective for me, was the GI lighting. Just terribly dim.

Unfortunately, that's the way a LOT of players are first experiencing the machine: at shows, at friends' unboxings, etc....and walking away from the machine with an opinion, usually negative or neutral. And mainly because they can't see the playfield and aren't used to playing with that kind of dim/high contrast lighting!

It is night and day, literally, with the lighting kit. You can actually play the game in the dark! I'd prefer a green strip on the right side and a blue on the left (instead of the blue all the way across the back), but apart from that I highly recommend the Pinball Lighting WOZ kit. Makes a world of difference in the enjoyment of the WOZ experience when you have a bright well-lit playfield you can follow the ball on. And it helps balance out the extremely bright insert lighting.

It's such a game-changer that you seriously shouldn't cement your opinion on WOZ gameplay unless you've experienced one with a light kit. It's a ball control, sharp shooter's game....and a bright well-lit playfield is absolutely required for enjoyment. (I personally can't believe JJP went forward with a GI system that ridiculously dim, but considering it can be remedied with $100 and about a half-hour of your time, and taking into consideration all the other things which were knocked out of the park, it's a small complaint and easily remedied.) But I really want to drive the point home for those whose WOZ opinions were formed on the original dark playfield with eye-scorching high contrast inserts where you can barely follow the ball during certain stages! Play it with the lighting kit installed and it's a whole new game!

True for my TZ as well. I recently added 3 of PinballBulbs double spots and it made a huge difference…pin gets a lot more play now.

Glad to hear you are happy with your WOZ purchase!

snaroff

A "few" have come up for sale lately and snatched up if the price is right. Most of the "few" have been people selling spots in line.

As you know, its a numbers game, there will always be some that drop out......despite its greatness you see a couple of Acdc's come up for sale every day, a whole lot produced, a whole lot that will sell and move on AFTER owning it.

Tony, I also don't get why you want to alienate such a large portion of the pinball buying community when you are a guy that's in the business of selling pinball machines.

LOL, I'm not in business of selling pinball machines. That is the persona I've been given so I go with it. I sell/trade 6-8 a year. Probably more than most here but not really a business. Just another part of the hobby for me.

Alienate a large portion of the pinball buying community? LOL, not in the least... You love me just as much as the next guy here.

WoZ is definitely a sensitive subject unless you're in love with it.

Now quite quoting me and asking me questions... I'm not supposed to be here!

WOZ is a subject that a certain core group of haters follow around like flies to honey, trying their best to coyly undermine and derail every single positive thread, FS thread, glowing review, etc.

Why? Not sure, exactly. Maybe a dislike for Jack and his boasts and sales pitches. Maybe because it appears overproduced and is not super-limited enough for certain folks to feel that coveting love or special excitement over ownership ("How can it be limited when 1000 are made?" was a common question/exclamation for months from this group!) There are this group of individuals who do not own WOZ, have stated they aren't interested in owning WOZ, and yet post in nearly every WOZ thread with the exact same negatively themed message in a "Wha? Who me hate? No, no, I'm just an innocent guy relaying opinions and propaganda!" tone.

teekee is the poster-child for this group.

I don't understand the hate either. I don't think there's another pinball machine on Pinside.com that has as much hate from a small select few as WOZ, lol. I think part of the problem is Stern only distributors and sellers that will bash WOZ and JJP at every turn. They see JJP making a high quality product loaded with toys, tech and features and see them as a threat.

Some of the hate is also coming from a very small group that believes that the game doesn't have any flow at all which is partially due in my own opinion of being used to only right ramp to flipper return, left ramp to flipper return, middle ramp to flipper based games and refusing not liking anything else that is different. There's room for TZ / LOTR type games (like WOZ) and high flow games like ACDC and Star Trek.

Ok then sell me that White Water!

What he is trying to say without directly saying it regarding the "alienate" comment is that we would not ever buy anything from you as a result of the way you converse on this forum. You may not care but you are losing a portion of your potential customer base.

I don't understand the need to express hate in every thread, but I do see where it comes from. From my perspective, here's a list of the top 5 reasons (unrelated to gameplay):

#1: Bravado…"best game ever"! (before a game existed).
#2: Contant Stern bashing…particularly early on.
#3: Missed deadlines & promises…shipping wildly incomplete software, despite hammering Stern for this practice.
#4: Painfully slow build train…delivery order a little unclear (assumption that LE's were going to be produced first).
#5: The business model of paying in full 2-3 years in advance…

Many of these were early in the design/production (and are no longer relevant), so hopefully folks can now focus on the game and move forward. Just to be clear…these aren't my issues, just issues I've gleaned from talking to players/collectors and reading over the past couple years.

In the end, Jack and his team have delivered the goods. While some of the items above might have offended some folks, they did keep JJP "in the news" and relevant to the pinball community.

Unfortunately, with email and social media, it's become easier to "alienate" people who don't actually know you. I've never purchased anything from teekee (and have never met face-to-face), but we've talked about many pinball related topics and I can tell you he's a straight shooter with good taste. He calls it like he see's it, even if he is a bit pedantic on Pinside

I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of his pins, though he doesn't sell very often. If you're smart, you'd stay away from the retailers and guys who aren't straight shooters!