This may be overkill but I plan on cutting mylar around certain areas before I install Cliffys with my game. Better safe then sorry.

So it sounds like only certain Bader playfields have the issue?

Taylor, apologies if I missed it, but how many plays does your WoZ have?

Mine is definitely not thin. If anything, it is the thickest clear on any of my games, including my TZ restored by Captain Neo.

What would you like to see in pics? How the clear rolls into holes? The edge of the playfield? Sorry I'm not exactly understanding.

A lot of people on here say you don't need mylar on HUO machines. I like mylar on kickers and pop bumper rings personally. Just gives you piece of mind. Especially if you play a ton. Mylar is easily and safely removable from a clearcoat.

Has anyone used the polycarbonate playfield non stick protectors? My concern would be dirt getting underneath and causing wear. I know most people recommend the stick over the non stick pop bumper rings because of this reason. I'm curious what the long term use of this protector looks like underneath.

Just swap the playfield,jack will give you a good deal on it if you show the pics.
Probably the settings for the coils ... super high.
By the way people.... you have any idea how much 4000 plays costs you normally?
You can buy 4 playfields instead.
It is not a rare playfield,you can buy it at Jack's...

just curious to see how it looks as far as uniformity. Like I said, mine was very thing and you can feel the transition from insert to playfield. I have games cleared from HEP and Neo and they are much more uniform than the Bader fields.

Between the past the playfield damage and the present back glass issues I think one still needs to wait before buying JJP

"Thickness" of clear is not an indication of how well the clearcoat will hold up. I very rarely see chipping or wear through on Stern playfields, and their clearcoat is thin. It's the application process more than anything; if clear or art is coming up in chips/chunks, that's an indication the clearcoat was not applied properly.

I have one of the earlier Bader pf's and did have a chip come off in front of the winkie guard (pic posted here months ago). JJP did send me a decal. Actually last night I made a template for the tree bumpers and installed mylar. In the bumper area, the only noticeable wear is about a 1/4" around each of the bumpers but no chipping. Also installed mylar a long time ago in all the known chipping areas...so far so good. I have been watching my pf closely.

Good info. Can you please list all of the areas where you applied mylar? I'm about to apply mylar myself. Also, when was your game made?

Thank you!

How often is "rarely?"

I would repair the damaged area either by touching it up and new clear or a PF swap then sell it.
$500 for a replacement PF when your original is clearly defective is pretty crappy IMHO.

Given the amount of problems you have had with your game they should overnight you a PF at zero cost to you.

Years back when Jack sold Stern games thru Pinball Sales some people had games with cosmetic issues and replacement PF's were supplied to those affected customers. Not sure if populated or not but someone ( Stern or Jacks ) covered the problem.

Fast forward to today and its Jacks own company. They want to charge you added funds for a manufacturing defect ?
Pretty tacky and that level of support shows its all about the $$$$.

Hardly, most woz owners have some sort of an issue, they are very quite about it on Pinside .

Game needs it in front of the winkie, pop nest, balloon pop area as well as all drops or kickout locations. Possible in front of slings as well.

For a game that was advertised as not needing protectors WOZ is now one of the most needy games ever.

Thank you. I'm surprised that mylar wasn't applied at the factory in those areas. My older Williams and recent Stern games have mylar down in similar areas where WOZ does not. Hopefully mylar will be applied in potential wear areas on The Hobbit.

And that's about all I can base it on.

I created a separate post to see if others were having issues and only heard from one person. I know of several location games that have serious playfield issues but I'm trying to base my argument off of HUO games, for whatever that distinction is worth.

I certainly don't consider myself a fanboy or hater of JJP and am trying to approach this issue as level headed possible. I appreciate others doing the same.

I would think they would. Mylar has been asked about on the JJP forum and they said they had it in the works but nothing more than that. They certainly have a good template to use as the decals they sent me could serve as one.

Game was 1st production game sold. Hard to say how many plays as there were a lot of full code updates from the beginning...but at least 750.
Winkie guard, tnplh, tree bumpers, edge of castle pf where ball enters the wire form, right below the inlanes around the sling, drop areas where some of the factory mylar applied was not directly where ball dropped, in front of the glinda target (as I just remembered there was some chipping beginning around the wand)...also had purchased some pre cut mylar from a pinsider around all the rollovers.
Also where ball drains to ball trough...noticed on almost all my games, the wood edges all have wear. Trying not to overkill...but you cant reallyy see mylar if appled properly...at least not after a couple hundred plays. Can always take it off and apply new...as long as it doesnt peel off the artwork.

Agreed.

I'm sure many folks here have done swaps and have rotisseries standing by to do so- but for me - having to do a full PF swap would be a MAJOR undertaking.... That would already feel like a huge chore for an end-user to deal with to correct a manufacturing defect.... charging for the PF is adding insult to the injury.

The whole issue is surprising given how much people have raved about JJP's service-after-the-sale in the past.

A free PF is certainly the RIGHT thing to do... needing to charge for it makes me wonder just how tight $$$ is right now back at JJP

Are we all still ignoring these warning signs?

Agreed. I was just comparing mine to Taylor's.

Mine is thicker.

I'll bet mine is longer...

I had a small fingernail size piece break-off near the winkie. JJP suggested some touch up paint but that flaked off as well so I touched it up then applied an overlay. That seemed to do the trick. I also dialed down the pops just to be safe. I've had no more trouble so far.

I don't disagree with anything you said. I should be known that Stern did the same thing to me with my ACDC playfield. Known defect with the clear, I have the cloudy version. It's a premium and they won't replace the playfield. I also bought my first, and last ever, LE a Hulk Avengers. I found myself having to wire in additional LEDs so I could see the inside lane lights. It was while wiring this frankenstein mess up that I decided I shouldn't have to hack an LE. Stern should be fixing their poor design mistakes. But they didn't.

I had hoped with George taking over that things would get better but they've only gotten worse. I'm not going to blame it necessarily on George but it's happening during his watch. So yeah, JJP is not treating it's customer well in this case. Stern also has had a run of treating customers poorly in favor of a dollar. I use to buy about every new Stern. No more. They lost a steady customer but saved a couple of bucks. Really poor form in the boutique business which is what their overpriced >pro pins are.

So again, neither company is doing it right. I want a good third option.

It boggles my mind that anyone would accept paint flaking off a playfield on a home-use game, or be happy with a sticker or some touch-up paint. If the paint on your new car stated flaking off in areas barely a year after you bought it would you be content with some lame work-around?

If Jack is unwilling - or unable - to replace these playfields with a known manufacturing defect it speaks volumes about their (lack of) appreciation for all the folks who funded JJP with their preorders.

You own this problem, Jack. Fix it right.

Meh.
If the artwork is lifting off the playfiled / inserts its likely the application of the original artwork and NOT the clearcoat responsible.
The biggest red flag is it happened on a low play HUO game in a very short time frame.

If the paint is lifting off your pinball machine, or your car, its a factory defect......

Jack should send you a postpaid box to return your populated playfield.

Then he should do the playfield swap at his factory, where he can do it in a few hours on the assembly line.

None of this should cost you a penny on a $9000 machine with a factory defects.

Absolutely correct. JJP acknowledges there was a run of defective playfields. To now say, "out of warranty, sorry"; is a crock. A "discounted" and (I use that term loosely) $500 replacement is an insult as well.

I agree.... and thats certainly what *I* would want.

But would Stern even do that?

I would be willing to BRING my game back to the factory to have them do it... wonder if Jack would agree to THAT? He might?

Maybe make it just prior to the open house and hang out for the party?

bring the game to the open house so everyone can see what they may be getting themselves into. Hopefully it will be made right on the spot

Yes.

In fact, Stern just did that 2 weeks ago with a guy who's AC/DC playfield twisted. Stern is not even making AC/DCs any longer and they still took care of the customer, assembly line or not.

And again, on a $6000 toy, that is exactly what they should be doing.

Should this be filed under "Best Built" or "Highest Quality"

That's exactly the way it should be for their first machine and a $9000 toy. I'd be upset having to pay anything and/or spend 50 hours on a playfield swap.

A few dollars of mylar could have saved a lot of heartache. Even if the playfield was defective the mylar could have held chips in place and hidden the defects for many years. Hard to believe any game, let alone one as expensive as these would come without mylar in the pops.

These pictures give me hope..... that I can buy a beater WOZ and restore it someday

I nitpicked my inserts this evening, and they are nothing but smooth. I didn't even bother trying to photograph any transitions.

Here's a photo of the chipping on my throne room, though. This is after 477 plays.

20150707_214901.jpg

Were WOZ games originally direct printed on the playfield?

* Best Built & Highest Quality, while under warranty.

More like "Best Built (by weight) & Highest Quality (we can afford)"

The thing is a tank.... but weight ≠ quality.... although I've tried to convince my wife the opposite....

I think you meant Metallica Premium. Luckily my playfield is getting replaced, fully populated. Of course I sent the original back first so they could re-use the harness and assemblies.

Rob

Yes.

and then it changed for whatever reasons.

are the new playfields not direct printed?

Don't know. You'd have to ask Mirco. He's doing them now.

Did you ever get a resolution to this?

Don't believe Mirco of are any better. I have had two TZ of and the clear has separated from both of them. They are unusable and they say unfixable. It's a damn shame as unpaid good money for it. I haven't seen the Mirco woo odd yet but I hope they are better

That is an excellent point!

I agree too!

I agree with this point 110%! That is way too many low plays, while HUO as well, ror that kind of damage to occur! The end user should not have to pay and/or do labor (lot's of labor actually) to swap! How many people reading this forum are going to change their mind about buying a jjp game if this solution is the only one offered? For sure at least one...me!

Friends...it is getting to the point, after reading stern and jjp threads regarding poor warranty service, that shopping for NIB sucks! Waiting and then looking at a used pin seems safer. You can cherry pick the best one that has no (or minimal) damage based on "x" amount of plays. I say safer because it implies that the pin would be ok going forward. Buying NIB is like rolling the dice. You have to cross your fingers and carefully evaluate your pin playfield surface at 50, 100, 200, 400, etc. Plays....perhaps with magnifying glass in hand!!! Yuck!!