Conyers, GA
Quoted from Vyzer2:asked jjp if they would make a decal for the chipped area and they did
That's pretty cool.
(Topic ID: 119921)
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Wizard of Oz
Jersey Jack, 2013
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Quoted from PanzerFreak:Stern did not justify their price increases in my opinion. Did they switch to an LCD, include an invisiglass type glass, include a topper, add stereo sound, add a headphone jack, add more interactive features and crank out code updates for LE's? No.
JJP justified WOZ's initial $6500 and then $7500 price tag because of what it comes with. Stern raised their prices and did not back them up with added hardware and features. What Stern did with their price hikes is equivalent of Chevy raising the price of the Camaro to match that of a new Dodge Viper and not add anything features wise to justify the increase.
Doesn't matter one iota if you think Stern "justified" their price increases. The fact is what I said remains true. Their prices did not sky rocket until after JJP came on the scene and proved that if they could charge more, so could Stern. They have. And Stern sales have not been harmed despite those price increases. In fact, they are now able to move into a nice new huge factory.
And of course JJP has continued to raise their prices too. A lot.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Stern did not justify their price increases in my opinion. Did they switch to an LCD with HD animations, include an invisiglass type glass, include a topper, add stereo sound, add a headphone jack, add more interactive features and crank out code updates for LE's? No.
Took 4 years to do the code on ONE game.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Stern did not justify their price increases in my opinion. Did they switch to an LCD with HD animations, include an invisiglass type glass, include a topper, add stereo sound, add a headphone jack, add more interactive features and crank out code updates for LE's? No
No they just put out kick ass fun games to play like Acdc and Metallica. I don't care what's on the playfield or what is showing me the score as long as the game is fun.
Quoted from Pinfidel:If you're a lazy operator, here's the best $150 you'll ever spend for your WOZ.
https://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58
I would have never considered getting the protector for my HUO TH and doubt there will be any quality issues now that JJP is aware of the risk - but $150 is looking like some cheap peace of mind.
Quoted from luckymoey:I would have never considered getting the protector for my HUO TH and doubt there will be any quality issues now that JJP is aware of the risk - but $150 is looking like some cheap peace of mind.
I still am leaning towards no protector but not as sure as I once was.
Quoted from McCune:Took 4 years to do the code on ONE game.
The game was announced in January 2011. They didn't start working on actual game code until much later. JJP first had to develop the actual platform before game rules could be implemented. I think at the 2013 Michigan Pinball Expo WOZ's there running 1.1 code. Once JJP started shipping WOZ's a month later code updates were released every month, sometimes twice a month, for over 6 months.
In the meantime people have waited 6+ months for needed code updates from Stern...
Quoted from teekee:So… will Monday (tomorrow) break the record for Hobbit refunds?
Meh.
I'd be more worried if JJP hadn't already resolved the issue (replaced the PF in question and changed suppliers).
Seems like the kind of thing that happens with new development...
Quoted from RobT:Doesn't matter one iota if you think Stern "justified" their price increases. The fact is what I said remains true. Their prices did not sky rocket until after JJP came on the scene and proved that if they could charge more, so could Stern. They have. And Stern sales have not been harmed despite those price increases. In fact, they are now able to move into a nice new huge factory.
Which brings me back to my original post:
Quoted from beelzeboob:You forgot the caption: "We charged the same amount of money for half the machine and got away with it!"
Thanks for backing me up, Rob!
I rest my case, McCune! 
Calgary, AB
Quoted from Spencer:Ive had numerous problems and just fixed them and moved on. ( considered it somewhat normal, no big deal ) That said, its getting silly now. My game has less than 200 full games on it, random light boards lock up every 15-20 games, the winkie target makes constant noise and the left flipper fell off during my last party. Nice touch for a brand new game. I opened a ticket and even though they know the light boards are a problem, they wont replace mine until I send them a video of it. Guess I should play it some more...
Hi Spencer. Sounds like you quite like your WOZ but are frustrated with the status, so I thought I would share my experience.
My game was built in Sept 2013, and purchased through a local distributor with an associated warranty. I experienced the light board issues and had them swapped out over time (with the replacement boards offered at that time). I did provide pics / video of the associated issues that were provided to the distributor and JJP. I was still having some issues, so when the latest new boards were available, I had them all replaced as a joint effort between the local distributor and JJP....Jack himself was involved with my issue, and was very accessible and supportive.
I'm happy to say that the game has been operating 100% now since that replacement, which was approximately summer of last year. I'm now approaching 700 plays, and the game looks and plays as brand new. The combination of the current state and latest code make this an amazing game (imo). It's a great fit with my current line up of games, as it offers something completely different. Again, this is my perspective on it based on my experience.
Hang in there, I think you'll find it's worth it.
Cheers 
Quoted from Pinfidel:If you're a lazy operator, here's the best $150 you'll ever spend for your WOZ.
https://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58
What "lazy" person is going to spend the dozens of hours is would take to strip the playfield down, install the protector and put everything back?
Quoted from Pinfidel:My sentiments exactly. Pure laziness and neglect. They just don't care. A year later when they go to check their machine, they're upset and blame the manufacturer. Stern, JJP, whomever.
Because some folks that just have money to burn are not pinball nerds like us and simply want to PLAY their machine. The question should really be why aren't the manufacturer's providing the appropriate protection right off the line?
Quoted from John_I:What "lazy" person is going to spend the dozens of hours is would take to strip the playfield down, install the protector and put everything back?
Me.
That's how I learned to fix my own machines.
This thread got me worried so I spent the afternoon installing mylar to protect my investment. This is what I came up with and couldn't be happier. I'll attach the PDF template so you can make your own.
I started by making a template using card stock until I was happy with the coverage results. I then used mylar sheet from marco and traced my template on the back side and carefully cut it out.
Move the wireform over the pops out of the way and clean the pop area to make sure it's dirt/dust/lint free. Install the mylar starting with a little of the backing off on the upper right corner and carefully position the mylar. Slowly peel the backing off and work your way to the left. Cutting sections of the backing off as you go to make it easier to work with. Take your time!
WOZ_template.jpg
WOZ_poptemplate.jpg
WOZ-popmylarinstalled.jpg
WOZ-poptemplate.pdfQuoted from Pinfidel:Agree 100%. But most of that is due to neglect.
Some cleaning and a little wax will go along way.
Easy to make that assumption right? Don't worry there always one in the crowd shouting lazy operator. This machine is pretty clean already due to repetitive cleaning in the field. It's in the process of a full tear down shop job hence the pictures. This wasn't meant as a bash whoever thread. It's simply an informative one.
I could spend $150 on protecting the whole playfield but with a replacement playfield there isn't really a point if its on route. Mylar will be applied to some of the areas affected as mentioned by others to prevent further sprawl. Machines being 100% operational and clean is always my first priority. I don't sweat dimples and wear like a home owner would. But don't worry when I decide to take this off route and sell it to someone on here for a great price it will be fully shopped with a brand new playfield.
So if you ever make it to the burgh Pinfidel we can meet up and I'll take you around to all my locations and you can tell me how lazy I am and what I did and didn't do wrong. But I have a feeling after looking/playing my machines that you will be buying me the beers.
Quoted from Tekman:This thread got me worried so I spent the afternoon installing mylar to protect my investment. This is what I came up with and couldn't be happier. I'll attach the PDF template so you can make your own.
I started by making a template using card stock until I was happy with the coverage results. I then used mylar sheet from marco and traced my template on the back side and carefully cut it out.
Move the wireform over the pops out of the way and clean the pop area to make sure it's dirt/dust/lint free. Install the mylar starting with a little of the backing off on the upper right corner and carefully position the mylar. Slowly peel the backing off and work your way to the left. Cutting sections of the backing off as you go to make it easier to work with. Take your time!WOZ_template.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
WOZ_poptemplate.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
WOZ-popmylarinstalled.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
WOZ-poptemplate.pdf
Wow! Thanks for posting this. Even after looking at all the pictures in this thread it never dawned on me that a new pinball machine could come without mylar in the pop bumper area. Sure enough, I just went in and looked at WOZ and there is no effen mylar there. I see a few squares of mylar in drop spots around the playfield, but not a single custom cut piece. I will have to cut a piece and put it in the pops. Just one more corner cut at the factory that supposedly does not cut corners...
Quoted from PanzerFreak:The game was announced in January 2011. They didn't start working on actual game code until much later. JJP first had to develop the actual platform before game rules could be implemented. I think at the 2013 Michigan Pinball Expo WOZ's there running 1.1 code. Once JJP started shipping WOZ's a month later code updates were released every month, sometimes twice a month, for over 6 months.
In the meantime people have waited 6+ months for needed code updates from Stern...
So here are your choices:
1) When a new Stern is announced pay for it, get it 1-4 weeks later and then usually wait 3-12 months for code to be in good shape.
2) When a JJP machine is announced pay a year or more ahead of time, when you actually get your machine code will be ok-ish and then you'll get lots of updates for the next 6 or so months.
JJP hardly wins the finished pin issue. They may in the future but are really horrible right now, even with the hobbit. That's not saying I like the way Stern does it either. That's why I won't buy any pin until I can play it and when I pay get it within a week or two.
The Stern code vs JJP unable to deliver in a reasonable timeframe (and code still isn't done) is a bad argument as neither is a good option.
Sana'a
Quoted from JerseyJack:We resolved the problem by eliminating that vendor
Geez...I would have thought that switching to another vendor would have been enough...but maybe that's how they do things in Jersey 
Nice to see that JJP is taking care of its customers by replacing any faulty playfields.
Quoted from scottr:Hi Spencer. Sounds like you quite like your WOZ but are frustrated with the status, so I thought I would share my experience.
My game was built in Sept 2013, and purchased through a local distributor with an associated warranty. I experienced the light board issues and had them swapped out over time (with the replacement boards offered at that time). I did provide pics / video of the associated issues that were provided to the distributor and JJP. I was still having some issues, so when the latest new boards were available, I had them all replaced as a joint effort between the local distributor and JJP....Jack himself was involved with my issue, and was very accessible and supportive.
I'm happy to say that the game has been operating 100% now since that replacement, which was approximately summer of last year. I'm now approaching 700 plays, and the game looks and plays as brand new. The combination of the current state and latest code make this an amazing game (imo). It's a great fit with my current line up of games, as it offers something completely different. Again, this is my perspective on it based on my experience.
Hang in there, I think you'll find it's worth it.
Cheers
My game was built in Sept 2013 as well. My biggest concern is JJP knows the light boards are an issue but whenever I email them about it, somehow its my fault and I better provide a video. Honestly, im going to play it and keep my phone close, but......
IF ITS A KNOWN PROBLEM, WITH A FIX, WHAT THE F IS THE PROBLEM HERE???
Quoted from Rick432:I thought JJ's point was that he didn't initially contract with a supplier who didn't seem to have some legitimacy, as even Spooky used them. So it was reasonable to expect good playfields from them initially. When they didn't deliver enough good playfields, JJP went with Mirco. Not bashing Spooky, only saying he was in good company in using them.
But that was just my take on it. Just saying his comments could be interpreted in an alternative and inoffensive way.
Perhaps Jack can clarify himself.
Exactly....
Quoted from Spencer:My game was built in Sept 2013 as well. My biggest concern is JJP knows the light boards are an issue but whenever I email them about it, somehow its my fault and I better provide a video. Honestly, im going to play it and keep my phone close, but......
IF ITS A KNOWN PROBLEM, WITH A FIX, WHAT THE F IS THE PROBLEM HERE???
My understanding is that anyone that identifies a legitimate issue with the light boards will be taken care of. In my case (assuming with others as well), they just wanted to see the evidence of the affected boards.
I also understood that not all games with 5V boards had issues. I know of at least one local pinsider / friend that had an early game with the 5V boards, and had zero issues while he had it...I played it several times, it was a perfect example.
I understood some folks wanted the new boards as spares in the event they had later problems, however don't believe JJP would arbitrarily deliver any without evidence of an issue....probably cost prohibitive. Again, my understanding is that JJP will address this issue for anyone that identifies this problem.
Ultimately, I hope you get this resolved so you can enjoy the game as it was meant to be.
After 5200 HUO plays on my avatar, the play field looks mostly mint. The artwork has chipped a little around the magnet but that is on me for not putting Mylar down. I am embarrassed for wozle based upon these photos.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:JJP justified WOZ's initial $6500
Panzer you can tell your self you only paid $6500 but the return for the s&p 500 2012 13.41% 2013 29.60% 2014 11.39% you payed far more then $6500
Quoted from JerseyJack:Exactly....
Will TH have mylar protectors for the popbumbers
Quoted from edwinpblue:After 5200 HUO plays on my avatar, the play field looks mostly mint. The artwork has chipped a little around the magnet but that is on me for not putting Mylar down. I am embarrassed for wozle based upon these photos.
Don't work yourself up over some routed machines..... Operators can try all they want, but they will never keep up a game like a collector. Stuff happens when games get built & all companies have had warranty work issues.
Quoted from Spencer:My game was built in Sept 2013 as well. My biggest concern is JJP knows the light boards are an issue but whenever I email them about it, somehow its my fault and I better provide a video. Honestly, im going to play it and keep my phone close, but......
IF ITS A KNOWN PROBLEM, WITH A FIX, WHAT THE F IS THE PROBLEM HERE???
My experience has been just the opposite, had a light board issue that was not critical but annoying, contacted Lloyd, and his response far exceeded my expectations. BTW, at time of contact my game was 4 months out of warranty.
Show me any new manufacturer who doesn't have some problems with their first product, it's the nature of the beast, it's how you handle those problems that is important.
Quoted from ek77:Will TH have mylar protectors for the popbumbers
Why would you of all people care what was on a JJP game?
Quoted from mountaingamer:Why would you of all people care what was on a JJP game?
Because what Jack does for game 2 will say a lot about how he will handle game 3
Quoted from ek77:Panzer you can tell your self you only payed $6500 but the return for the s&p 500 2012 13.41% 2013 29.60% 2014 11.39% you payed far more then $6500
Or for those who prefer less risk, a three year CD for example, probably about 2%.
Easy to look back at market return, we all have woulda, coulda, shoulda stories from real estate to stocks to girlfriends to wives.
Quoted from dgpinball:My experience has been just the opposite, had a light board issue that was not critical but annoying, contacted Lloyd, and his response far exceeded my expectations. BTW, at time of contact my game was 4 months out of warranty.
Show me any new manufacturer who doesn't have some problems with their first product, it's the nature of the beast, it's how you handle those problems that is important.
That's honestly my issue. Its not "critical" but its annoying as shit. Ive always been a WoZ supporter but lately, ive had enough of the what ever attitude.
Quoted from ek77:Because what Jack does for game 2 will say a lot about how he will handle game 3
Cool - I did not know that - thanks
Quoted from Chitownpinball:Really wish I had known you could put the playfield protector on at the factory...
I add Mylar to all of my nib machines as an insurance policy. Just in strategic places like the shooter lane entrance and any areas that prone to damage if Mylar isn't already there. Good idea to do this on any nib pin.
Quoted from chessiv:I add Mylar to all of my nib machines as an insurance policy. Just in strategic places like the shooter lane entrance and any areas that prone to damage if Mylar isn't already there. Good idea to do this on any nib pin.
I hear you, but dont the edges of mylar become area of wear then any ways?
Quoted from JerseyJack:We resolved the problem by eliminating that vendor
Was that because of product quality or the amount of money you owe him?
Quoted from Chitownpinball:I hear you, but dont the edges of mylar become area of wear then any ways?
Hasn't happened to me. But then again I don't put a ton of plays on my machines. My LOTR may have 1000 plays and the shooter lane looks perfect.
Quoted from ek77:Panzer you can tell your self you only payed $6500 but the return for the s&p 500 2012 13.41% 2013 29.60% 2014 11.39% you payed far more then $6500
'Payed'.... 
Quoted from pezpunk:I'll say it again ... That WOZ playfield is chipping, not worn.
It's not normal wear like you see on old games where the artwork gets gradually rubbed away over time by the ball. It's gotta be some kind of defect in the process making it more brittle or fragile than it ought to be. The question is how common the defect is and whether it was limited to older playfields.
I agree, it looks like chipping and not wear. Yikes my reimport Lethal Weapon 3 has approx. 25,000 plays and the PF is perfect. I mean that. It shines like water is on it and no wear through to wood or any chips anywhere on the PF. Of course as bad a wrap DE games get I have heard that they clearcoated their PF's great...something like 3 super hard coats with a proper cure time. Come to think of it my Maverick, Baywatch, and Tommy are perfect too. I hope this issue can be fixed for WOZ owners. Do you think you can match the paint real good so it will be difficult to notice it? I have heard some people have done remarkable repairs with acrylic paints and then varathane or something like that and it looked great.
Folks...this thread was started to point out issues observed with a WoZ, noting more, nothing less.
Please keep yourselves reigned in and don't turn this thing off the rails. Please no personal insults. No digs on Jack personally. No nasty jabs. No speculation, rants, raves, rambles, and who knows what else...
We have had our share of WoZ drama, and this is not going to go that route.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:or the amount of money you owe him?
Is this fact?
Quoted from pindome:l have woulda, coulda, shoulda stories from real estate to stocks to girlfriends to wives.
Quoted from DevilsTuner:remember that acdc from the shore a few years ago it was worse than this.
I heard a couple ACDC LE owners wound up with cloudy lower playfield windows too. 
Oh, and there's NO Mylar in the pops area of my ACDC premium.
Quoted from exflexer:So if you ever make it to the burgh Pinfidel we can meet up and I'll take you around to all my locations and you can tell me how lazy I am and what I did and didn't do wrong. But I have a feeling after looking/playing my machines that you will be buying me the beers.
Just seeing this now.
Sorry bro, I was only going by what I saw. Maybe it's just the angle of the pics you took, but it looks pretty neglected. Regardless, I'll be in Allentown! Drinks on me! Cheers
I started a new thread to ask if anyone had advice about using mylar safely. Thanks for any wisdom you might pass on:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/any-tips-for-adding-mylar
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