(Topic ID: 119921)

WOZ after 4,000 plays


By exflexer

4 years ago



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  • 352 posts
  • 148 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by beelzeboob
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

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There are 352 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 8.
#1 4 years ago

This is what you might expect to see after 4,000 plays on WOZ.

The clearcoat is a little strange and maybe someone can clarify on the process. So it seems like the playfield has been cleared, then the artwork applied, and then cleared again. Where the artwork is missing its super smooth and feels like there is a thick base coat of clear under the artwork.

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#2 4 years ago

WTF!!!!! that playfield looks like a late 80's beater in a way

#3 4 years ago

Wow that disappointing!!! Hope sterns pf hold up better then that.

-26
#4 4 years ago
Quoted from Twilight1:

Wow that disappointing!!! Hope sterns pf hold up better then that.

No, they won't/don't.

#5 4 years ago

Is there no mylar around the jet bumpers? If not, that's really strange..!

Rob

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from shakethatmachine:

No, they won't/don't.

You're saying that Stern pins look like this after 4,000 games too?

Certainly we must have a few people on here who can confirm/deny this.
McCune: how many plays on your ACDC?

Also, are there other WOZ owners with over 4,000 plays on their games?
I would be surprised if they all look like this.

#7 4 years ago

This is odd, I remember Alex saying in a post on a random thread awhile ago how amazing the clear coat work is on these machines, that the scoops don't need cliffys.

#8 4 years ago

That looks as if the finish is chipping off almost like it separated from the base wood and is loose to the point you could peel it off.

12
#9 4 years ago
Quoted from shakethatmachine:

No, they won't/don't.

Ive seen Stern PF's with more then 4k plays that have way less wear then this. This hopefully is not the norm for JJP playfields.

#10 4 years ago

Is this game on location? How often should a game be checked,cleaned and or waxed if it is? Just wondering?

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from shakethatmachine:

No, they won't/don't.

I've picked up plenty of routed Stern machines with way more than 4000 plays and have never seen one this bad. Some wear or chipping around any cellar holes, but nothing like this.

#12 4 years ago

Looks like the clear and artwork are chipping off together. That's not right. And way too much wear for 4k games. I've seen many pins with 10x this many plays looking much better than this. IMO this is worse than the light board fiasco.

#13 4 years ago

This has me concerned.

I don't think I'll be any JJP games in the future until this is resolved.

#14 4 years ago

After having recently completed a playfield swap on a High Speed, these pics really motivate me to remove my pop pen, and install a nice layer of mylar throughout the area. It's not going on location, but there's no need to allow tons of wear in such a high wear area, when it's preventable with an hour of work and a $2 piece of mylar.

As for the paint wear "near" the saucers (in these pics), I regret seeing that. The wear on the wood looks somewhat familiar, but the way the "chunk" of paint seems to have sheared off nearby is worrisome/peculiar.

-mof

#15 4 years ago

I have a mate who has chipped his Woz playfield and he has only about 200 plays on it..........

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from shakethatmachine:

No, they won't/don't.

I have sterns on location with a lot more than 4k plays that don't have any damage that bad... and bally/williams machines too... I maintain a T2 on location that has at least 20k+ plays and the playfield is fine except for shooter lane wear

#17 4 years ago

Very strange the factory not applying Mylar around the pops before they ship... Moved to Jersey Jack Pinball sub-forum.

-2
#18 4 years ago

Maybe the balls were not changed and they damaged the PF much faster?

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from shakethatmachine:

No, they won't/don't.

of course YES !

my TRON LE had more than 7000 games on it (when i sold it), and i got absolutly nothing wrong on the PF, only the scoop (without a cliffy) was just a little used...

pics are still available if you want to see :

https://plus.google.com/photos/110304160913314353072/albums/6014108705987901649

#20 4 years ago

Question: Is this game pre 2013 december or after ?
The supplier of the playfields was changed in this period from a US firm to a German firm.
I have a US playfield in my machine and it still looks good and nice .. but I am far away from 4000 games !
Maybe the playfield is US made than we have the reason why JJP changed the supplier. If it is a "later model" ..... mhhpff ... bad for all ....

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

This hopefully is not the norm for JJP playfields.

This definitely looks bad. But to determine if this is 'the norm' you will need more data for comparison.

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

This definitely looks bad. But to determine if this is 'the norm' you will need more data for comparison.

Yeah, get two playfields of any machine side by side with identical plays and then compare tables that have a vigilant schedule cleaning/wax, ball inspection and replacement with those that have less or none - and you are bound to have vast amounts of differences between wear. Yeah, it's bad - but you have to wonder why. It's easy to blame how the table was manufactured - but is the amount of damage caused by a well kept clean ball or one that has scratches and dirt?

#23 4 years ago

Wow, pretty bad stuff. At least WoZ is pretty to look at…

#24 4 years ago

this doesn't look like wear, it looks like damage. the artwork is chipping off, not wearing away.

hopefully this problem is not common to all JJP playfields.

#25 4 years ago

Other factors to consider? How often the balls were changed, cleaned? Game settings? Pop bumper power? I dunno. We tend to focus on the bad, how about other WOZ games on location?

#26 4 years ago

I was getting ready to finally seriously look for a HUO. But given all the clear issues I have seen, and the issues a couple friends of mine are going through with the light boards, and constantly having to email JJP for replacements for this and that, and the time the machines are done, I am out.

Too bad, because I really want to own a woz and go through the rules. It really looked like these would be indestructible tanks, but man, they are turning out to be glass houses. The crystal ball just falling off with extremely weak adhesion is a real head scratcher as well.

One thing I will say, let's not turn this into a JJP vs Stern thing, that's not the point here.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

Very strange the factory not applying Mylar around the pops before they ship... Moved to Jersey Jack Pinball sub-forum.

Isn't not needing Mylar the point of clearcoat?

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

this doesn't look like wear, it looks like damage. the artwork is chipping off, not wearing away.
hopefully this problem is not common to all JJP playfields.

Well said. It appears JJP thought they could innovate in the clear coating space of pinball and failed. Why screw with somthing that has work for many decades?? This shows that innovation is not always a good idea.

#29 4 years ago

Seems like the kind of issue where they tried to have a superior clear coat, but only time and heavy usage will prove it and their process isn't holding up.

#30 4 years ago

The machine at Silverball Museum has tens of thousands of plays and doesn't look like that.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

The machine at Silverball Museum has tens of thousands of plays and doesn't look like that.

Maybe this is the same run of PF's as the other chipping thread. Still haven't got a good answer on when those PF's were released, or what dates to look for for problematic machines.

#32 4 years ago

Curious what his coil settings are @.
There s a game on route with almost 30,000 plays on it.
JT

#33 4 years ago

I love WOZ but this is indeed concerning. Lots of people talking about cleaning, etc. I don't care what anyone says but no game should show that much wear with 4k plays - cleaned or not. I have a routed shadow with more than 30k plays and other than sanctum wear and some ball swirls it is perfect. I know of an IM on location with more than 40k plays and other than some magnet wear and dirt it is in fantastic shape. Not saying the Quality on Sterns or Williams is superior just that it is possible to have playfields hold up better in extreme (routed) situations (not HUO).

Quality is a measure of "repeatedly being able to create something in a consistent manner". Hopefully JJP playfield clear is a quality (durable) product and this one is an outlier! It would be interesting to know which playfield manufacturer this was. I hate playfield wear more than anything and this makes me worry about the hobbit playfields.

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

Ive seen Stern PF's with more then 4k plays that have way less wear then this. This hopefully is not the norm for JJP playfields.

I've seen sterns with 20k plus and the only thing worn was the shooter lane and it was pretty minor. 4k plays @ $1 play with a location split and this WOZ would be only 25-33% of the way of paying itself off. OUCH! 4k plays is nothing.

#35 4 years ago

I took photos last year at Jackbot Bar on 8/1/2014,
I don't know how many plays were on it at that time though...

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#36 4 years ago

The one at CP Pinball is chipping like this as well, and a bunch of his light boards are bad.

His has been on location for a year. For reference/comparison you can look at any of the other machines he has had at the arcade for 4 or 5 years plus. Some have no wear and he bought them off route.

I bought my Tron NIB, and it's got more than 5000 plays with no wear (just gets black from the disc pretty often).

I can't think of a modern machine that I've seen with that much playfield wear. That's more wear than my reimport Dracula, and that thing NEEDS a new playfield, bad.

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from Gort:

Is this game on location? How often should a game be checked,cleaned and or waxed if it is? Just wondering?

IF a WOZ on location or ACDC or anything out of the box isn't cleaned at all during 4k plays,
the black ring rubber would go all over it and actually protect the playfield
as the ball would be rolling over rubber in many areas instead of the playfield.

Side note:
My ACDC pro had none of this wear at 2k plays and odds are won't at 4k plays.

P.S...
Ball wear isn't insane at 1k or 2k plays, but should be changed as much as can be afforded
as it keeps the ball faster and less likely to wear with worn down/scratched/dinged up balls.

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

This definitely looks bad. But to determine if this is 'the norm' you will need more data for comparison.

Which could take a looong time from collectors as they get no where near as much play as they could on route...
The story will thicken (like the clearcoat should) in time.

-7
#39 4 years ago

I am sure this was just probably a bad playfield

#40 4 years ago

Interesting to say the least. Would like to get some facts though before anymore speculation.

1) When was this machine produced? There are different playfields out there.

2) Was this on a route? OR in a home?

3) What maintenance was done during this time? Anything? Cleaning/waxing along its 4K journey?

4) Someone asked this as well, Coil settings?

-1
#41 4 years ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

Which could take a looong time from collectors as they get no where near as much play as they could on route...
The story will thicken (like the clearcoat should) in time.

It is of no use to make huo machines a reference for this case. Machines on route should be used for this. Photos already posted here with building date and number of plays should be a good start.

Either way I agree with what has been said here too. Is doesn' t look like wear but more likely a defect.

#42 4 years ago

It's important to really look at your WOZ for wear every so often. Mine chipped around the Winkie so I repaired and covered with Gorilla tape - seems to be OK so far. (Aug 2014 build date). If you don't fix a small chip it will quickly become a bigger one. I've probably got about 400 plays now but the problem happened about 200 plays. No problems seen anywhere else.

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

It is of no use to make huo machines a reference for this case.

Wrong,
HUO (home use only)/RUO (route use only) makes no big difference.
It's the amount of plays that matters most.
Plays are plays in the grand scheme of things.

So, when some HUO games get to higher numbers of plays
is when we'll see how they hold up.
Until then, it's theories about "bad playfields" or "defects".

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from musketd:

I am sure this was just probably a bad playfield

"If" that is so, how many are out there?

#45 4 years ago

This is concerning. A game shouldn't have wear spots that bad after 4,000 games. Still, others said they have seen WOZ's with far more plays and not the same wear. I'll try to take a couple pictures this week of an on location WOZ nearby that likely has at least as many plays in the same area for comparison.

Do most NIB pins come with mylar around the pops to prevent this type of wear?

#46 4 years ago

change balls, wax often. most problems solved.

#47 4 years ago

My WOZ had over 4k plays on it when I sold it and there was basically no playfield wear. Slight chipping around the edge of the Throne Room saucer, that's it. They had to have a run of bad playfields and this is one of them.

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from stangbat:

My WOZ had over 4k plays on it when I sold it and there was basically no playfield wear. Slight chipping around the edge of the Throne Room saucer, that's it. They had to have a run of bad playfields and this is one of them.

That's a slight relief. The game I'm going to check out this week has been on location since at least July 2013 so I'm sure it has far more then 4k plays on it.

-10
#49 4 years ago

So… will Monday (tomorrow) break the record for Hobbit refunds?

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