Quoted from doughslingers:The phone has been ringing! People are paying. First in gets the best low numbers.
which low numbers are "best"? 
(Topic ID: 69554)
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Wizard of Oz
Jersey Jack, 2013
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Quoted from Fatsquatch:Sorry, but I am so goddamn tired of reading this type of statement every time this sort of discussion comes up.
At this point, the only new people that are going to come into pinball as a result of a new $9,000+ game are one-percenters looking for something frivolous to buy.
The "average Joe" wants no part of a big ass toy that costs as much, or more, than a nice car.
yes, that has always been a laughable statement, that joe six-pack was suddenly going to buy a big huge expensive toy simply because they saw one with a familiar theme...
however, judging by a few posts i have read ("order now, get the best numbers", "the original will be the best collectible", etc.), there are new people being brought into the market, but they aren't coming in because they like to play pinball...
maybe when it was said long ago that the machine wouldn't be released until code was complete, they meant they'd keep releasing "latest and greatest new editions" until the code was complete...
Quoted from muddman:I think Jack is free to do what he wants , it's another Very special Pin , and different from the 1st LE . Get over it already . No other Pin has Ever compared to WOZ in quality , feel . and play . So the more the better , keep them coming Jack.Count me in for the next one too ! ECLEWOZ #77 , Hobbit LE #77
< sigh >
Quoted from jamespin:I need my pinball machines to appreciate in value if I am to buy nib in the future. This may not be realistic to expect but if the out of the box resale dips considerably then I am out of that market. If many others are in the same boat then the high end pin nib market will be very short lived. Best for Jack to make hay while the sun is shining but the soil will be very depleted for future sales.
Unless these high end pins are considered collectable along with fun the future resale market that helped fund this resurgence will be gone and with it the buyers of nib. You can see this in motion with the mmle and that high end pin market already. Collectors want rare and are the ones who will spend money on high end and regularily. Bottom line in my opinion is take away collectibility and you take away your buyers of high end pins too.
wozle #70 and thle #70
pinball machines are not investment vehicles...
Quoted from jamespin:what's my mistake Lloyd? Working for a living and not being rich? I suppose there are tens of thousands of other pinball people willing to pay fresh 10k money from non pin sales to support endless buying of nib? So, just saying if my eclewoz #70 and my thle #70 doesn't hold considerable value when I need to pick one to sell if I want to buy.another JJP then I won't. I am not talking about pins as an investment. There are only a limited number of auto collectors that have a purse big enough not need to rotate out stock to fund new. This mistake is hopefully mine and not the new direction of the industry taking out the collectability of these high end toys.
the theory that you should somehow be compensated for participating in a hobby is one that escapes me...
you buy something, use it (and presumably get enjoyment out of it, which has "value")... then you expect to be able to sell it for more than you paid for it... name me one other "hobby" where that theory would hold water?
if anything, a return to "normal depreciation" would be a boon for the hobby as a whole...
Quoted from jamespin:putting words in print doesn't mean they will be read either but people do get that pinball machines are not investment vehicles but why can't the same people acknowledge there is a considerable investment involved with machines especially nib? If not for many of the machines appreciating over the past few years there wouldnt be a JJP 9k machine selling either or at least at any sizable amount.
how many pins bought nib have truly appreciated in recent years? hint: more of them have gone down in value than up... for every "hit" there are several "misses"...
no one is saying that a nib pin is cheap... but to expect that you should be able to buy one and sell it for more than you pay for it is an unsustainable expectation...
pinball machines are not an "investment"... they are an "expense"... two completely different things...
Quoted from jamespin:Where and the hell did you read any of this from my post? I need to spell it out for you. I am not investing in my pins for profiting. If I am to shell out another 8 to 10 k on a JJP nib I am going to need to sell one of my other JJP pins. If they don't hold value well I won't be buying another nib JJP because I don't want or need to have 25 k in three pins. This is only if I want another JJP title after his first two. If I can't sell one without absorbing a reasonable loss then I won't be buying a new in box JJP plain and simple. I will just be happy with the two I have. Just saying if he wants return business he needs to not only create value but hold it too. This high end market to be sustainable either needs to create many new pinheads that want to spend 8 to 10k on multiple JJP pins or have loss on nib reasonable or we are in a very finite business model.
< sigh > stop and think for a moment about what you are saying...
"i need someone to buy my used machine for more than i paid for it so i can buy the latest one"... ummm... wouldn't it stand to reason that:
a) a buyer with that type of money would want the latest one as well?
and
b) a buyer with that type of money would have already been in the game, especially since jjp's machines have exploded what the concept of "limited" means?
or are you special, and everyone else in the hobby simply exists for your wants and needs?
i'm not putting words in your mouth... you are the one who said you need your machines to appreciate... not me... go back and read your posts...
again... pins are an "expense"... if you can't afford that expense (and many of us can't), tough...
please don't get this thread locked by throwing political bombs... there are other websites for that...
Quoted from HighProtein:It's called the power of attraction folks.
People wanted a remake/remix of Medieval Madness and we may get it.
People wanted another manufacturer so we got it.
People wanted a super-LE version of WOZ, here ya go!
i don't recall any great clamoring for a "super-le version of woz"...
again, what "clamor"? i saw nothing on pinside (maybe i missed it?) where people were begging for another le?
some jjp apologists are really stretching credulity with the pricing excuses... the "pump up the prices so the scalpers don't profit" dog don't hunt... that presumes that EVERYONE who buys a machine is buying from a flipper... if that is indeed true, jack has an issue with his distributors (including himself, since you could buy directly from him) backdooring inventory... believe me, i'm no fan of flippers, but laying the price increase at their feet is disingenuous at best...
guys... just stop... there are plenty of other websites where you can argue this point to your hearts content...
Quoted from RobT:No, it got 200% worse when people started spewing political bullshit on a pinball forum.
In violation of the rules no less.
yup... and i really wish they'd cut it out... pinside is my "safe haven" from the bloodsport that politics has become...
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