(Topic ID: 69554)

WOZ 75th anniversary LE the real LE?


By JoeJet

5 years ago



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There are 1002 posts in this topic. You are on page 14 of 21.
#651 5 years ago

It all boils down to debate over variety vs exclusivity. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

#652 5 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

Well... If it ends up in the WB catalog, maybe it is?

At 9k probably better suited for the Neiman Marcus catalog.

#653 5 years ago

They'll never sell 1500 LE ruby reds it will take years won't really be 1500 they'll sell them till they can't. So I'm guessing if 500 get made then 1000 haven't and there's a few on eBay, pinside selling for 14k jersey Jack will then raise the price to 14k for the remaining to be made just because that's what the small market says they make the market from his mouth. Sorry but this is total BS on his part altogether he's bring a change to pinball alright. I love the game but he's gonna put everyone out of business and no new pins. Next stern will try and get 9k for next game. Markets gonna crash all over itself next year.

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#654 5 years ago
Quoted from turbo20lbs:

I'm not sure why so many are surprised by this, Jack has been shady in the past (with the LOTR LE for example). I'm sure he has done other things I am not aware of. I don't see things getting better with JJP. I am still in awe how behind they are with WOZ production.

What is most shady of this entire shadyness is that there is no way JJP will sell 1500 WOZ75s, so the WOZ75s will actually be the most limited of all the editions.

Unless you count the 250 Australian limited editions.

....or the Yellow Dick Road editions (coming soon).

#655 5 years ago
Quoted from jjsrt8:

.... Sorry but this is total BS on his part altogether he's bring a change to pinball alright. I love the game but he's gonna put everyone out of business and no new pins. Next stern will try and get 9k for next game. Markets gonna crash all over itself next year.

i said it before, Garry was waiting for this and should thank Jack, he's already counting the profit from next year's new price.
at the same time market is going to crash slowly/over flooded by too many pins outhere/at distributors.

#656 5 years ago
Quoted from pmWolf:

As messy as this entire thing is, imagine how it would be if they announced 300 of the 75th Edition. It was better to say 1500, and sweep it all under the rug if less than a thousand got made.

He did, only it was 500 to the dudes down under.

#657 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Your whole argument comes down to: there is no such thing as a "Limited Edition", and that you don't think that there should be anyway.

No, my whole argument is that a "limited edition" is defined by what separates it. i.e. green powdercoat, wooden apron. If I make something else that's not that it doesn't change the first edition. Just like my hypothetical Thunderstruck AC/DC wouldn't suddenly make BIBLE not limited anymore. They're not making more Emerald City WOZes.

Now I get that you and other people don't care for it. It makes the first LE seem not as cool. I'm totally grasping that. But ... oh well? Stern should make a Tron premium with lit ramps and Daft Punk multiball but without the 3D backglass and plaque and sell a ton. I'll still tell the LE people "hey, you got your numbered game, enjoy it". Would they be worth less? Probably. But if you're a true collector you want the original, just like some people will want the original MM over MMR. If you're just a player, then hey, you win. That's more what I care about, no question.

I firmly refuse to believe that companies should make decisions to benefit hoarders seeing their collection increase in value and never go down over more people playing pinball. Never gonna take that other side, sorry.

#658 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

Why on Earth could the 'Regular' WOZ NOT have ended up in the WB catalog?? They make it sound like they had to come out with a 75th Anniversary Edition in order to get into the catalog.

They probably did. There is a big difference between 'some guy in the Midwest' contacting JJP vs. A Warner Brothers catalog sent out to an audience of high-end WB fans.

#659 5 years ago

I'm sure some suppliers have put in orders ... but has any individual on here actually placed an order for this new WOZ LE 75th Anniversary Edition? Anyone at all?

#660 5 years ago

Just to be clear, I'm not a JJP fanboy, I don't own or intend to own WOZ, and I think the $9k price point is RIDICULOUS. It's just that this whole LE/scarcity/collector thing is what led to that price in the first place. So I'm not a fan of the whole system, I think it's bad for the hobby to the benefit of the few, and ultimately is going to kill everything. Good luck selling your LE when people bail and the hobby shrinks down.

#661 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Stern should make a Tron premium with lit ramps and Daft Punk multiball but without the 3D backglass and plaque and sell a ton.

Too bad Tron Uprising (the animated series) got cancelled....A Tron Uprising Edition would have been slick...same game but reskin the art package with the show's character designs & art style. It would make the my LE worthless but I'd still buy one lol

#662 5 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

i said it before, Gary was waiting for this and should thank Jack, he's already counting the profit from next year's new price.

I don't think so but it depends on how many STLEs the distros are stuck with.
I was looking forward to this game but the 1,000 dollar price jump changed my mind.
Instead I bought a TF combo LE and a Tron for what this game would have cost delivered.

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#663 5 years ago

Ya know...I just read through all the bullshit and THIS is all I got from it....

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#664 5 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

It all boils down to debate over variety vs exclusivity. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

cake.jpg

#665 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

What is most shady of this entire shadyness is that there is no way JJP will sell 1500 WOZ75s, so the WOZ75s will actually be the most limited of all the editions.
Unless you count the 250 Australian limited editions.
....or the Yellow Dick Road editions (coming soon).

That's only if he doesn't MAKE 1500 of them and then cut prices if/as needed to move them later. Right?

#666 5 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

i don't recall any great clamoring for a "super-le version of woz"...

You weren't at the Q&A session at Expo then.

#667 5 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

That's only if he doesn't MAKE 1500 of them and then cut prices if/as needed to move them later. Right?

JJP can't even get 1/2 of the original, paid in full, LE orders out the door.

I'm not worried they will suddenly go into high gear and start making too many of something.

#668 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

JJP can't even get 1/2 of the original, paid in full LE orders out the door.

I'm not worried they will suddenly go into high gear and start making too many of something.

But are there cars in the parking lot yet?

#669 5 years ago

Today we played a little ECLEWOZ, and then had a delicious late lunch of sopressata, pecorino cheese, and a wonderful Montepulciano dry red wine. The sopressata was from Tony's Market in Roslindale (tough to get to, but a great little Italian market). We added a drop of a balsamic glaze to the pecorino for an added spark of flavor. Indeed, life is good in my world. Yummy food, wine, and a fantastic new pinball machine to play. I like my green game. I've been playing the crap out of it, and now that Lloyd solved my issue, I'll just keep playing it. I'm totally fine now that it has a red armored brother in the world. It didn't change my game one bit. I am a very happy customer of JJP, and I have also been a happy customer of Stern machines. I really like to play pinball. It is that simple. And Jack hit it out of the park with WOZ because the game is a blast to play. Make as many as you can Jack, and then make me some more fun games! Everything else is just bullcrap.

#670 5 years ago

sorry but 750 woz already paid in 7 months, nope, not gonna happen.
and then the new red version and the hobbit at the same time... lollll

#671 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

But are there cars in the parking lot yet?

Yes, about 7 cars are in that pic in the other post.

That pic also dispelled the rumor that JJP had an army of tinmen doing the work.

Cybermen.jpg

#672 5 years ago
Quoted from Fatsquatch:

Isn't this whole thing a simple situation where Jack saw (firsthand, as a distributor) how well the Medieval Madness remake sold on DAY 1, and then immediately went into "how can I replicate that?!"
Everybody went crazy with "TAKE MY $8,000 NOW, BLARGH!!!" over MMr, and Jack has to know that there's a shit-ton of profit being made on a game with little-to-no R&D costs; just produce parts, assemble, and PROFIT BIG.

This is why I shall now refer to the WOZLE75RUBY as WOZr.

#673 5 years ago

If I ever start my company I promise you there will be one model and it will be the best model and none of you can complain about what's rare or not it'll be the one and only like many companies Stern/JJP should catch on it doesn't need a fancy LE word to sell just make it good and one model. Save the confusion and the cost to make 3 different models just nuts it would cut cost along the whole spectrum everyone could then get a great NIB instead of just a pro model.

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#674 5 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Everything else is just bullcrap.

Especially your post !

#675 5 years ago

Being fairly new to this hobby and owning just two pinball machines I ordered the woz standard a few weeks ago. Getting the email friday that I can now spend even more for the better machine makes me rethink why I even agreed to pay $ 8000 in the beginning. From what I saw of the game I think it is amazing but I simply cant justify spending the money anymore. I will probably just get my deposit back and stick with what I have. I was losing sleep thinking how I was going to pay for it anyway.

#676 5 years ago
Quoted from psychoticmark:

Being fairly new to this hobby and owning just two pinball machines I ordered the woz standard a few weeks ago. Getting the email friday that I can now spend even more for the better machine makes me rethink why I even agreed to pay $ 8000 in the beginning. From what I saw of the game I think it is amazing but I simply cant justify spending the money anymore. I will probably just get my deposit back and stick with what I have. I was losing sleep thinking how I was going to pay for it anyway.

If you want a WoZ just be patient. You'll be able to find a nice HUO one down the road for much cheaper. The way JJP is pumping them out you might be able to find one someday just by dumpster diving…

#677 5 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

The way JJP is pumping them out you might be able to find one someday just by dumpster diving…

That's how I got both of mine.

#678 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

Why on Earth could the 'Regular' WOZ NOT have ended up in the WB catalog?? They make it sound like they had to come out with a 75th Anniversary Edition in order to get into the catalog.

Good point.

#679 5 years ago

Seriously guys

If someone is in PRIVATE enterprise and has a way to generate more work for himself and profit ... GOOD LUCK TO THEM.

The new 'LEs" are NOT the same as the original, cost more and are more of them, so in no way will they reduce the desirability of the original LEs.

I'm sure all of you out there that have your own business will do what it takes to get more work, especially if not doing so would cause you to fire staff/ mothball a factory.

Get over it. If you are worried about the "value" of a purchased pinball then maybe you shouldn't be spending that kind of money on one to start with.

I am still to buy a pinball as I have finished my home and the budget isn't there. When I can afford to buy a machine and not worry about its worth that is when I will buy one.

If JJP can get 9k for a machine good luck to him and his company. (bit high in my opinion)

Don't forget the Wizard of OZ is popular WORLD WIDE.

Hell I can see one of these things in cinemas everywhere.

I agree that the differing payment plan between the Hobbit and the new 75th edition is not great. The Hobbit pre order crowd should be the ones screaming.

Rant off

#680 5 years ago

ebay.com link » 75th Anniversary Wizard Of Oz Le Free Shipping

Free shipping! So this new LE is now selling below $9K.

#681 5 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

People need to recognize that while we are all in the hobby to enjoy the games, some are also excited about the collectibility nature it presents in addition to gameplay. Many of us come from the comic, autograph, baseball card, antique toys or stamp collecting hobbies. It's cool to own a rarity, something unique, and the hunt to acquire is also part of the rush.

As a hobby we need to define what an LE is or should be. Because right now I don't think the manufacturers do. I respect their right to make money - as they should, risk = reward. But some who buy in on an announced LE are also buying in for the gameplay AND the risk = reward of collectibility of something possibly rare and more desired. If all buyers know up front only x LE's will ever be made - or two LE versions will ever be made - and they decide to take the risk/reward and pay more - that's the game and all is fair and just. But when this is not clearly communicated and changes (regardless if its JJP/Stern/SkitB/JPOP/whomever) this rightfully upsets a group of buyers who regardless of right/wrong intentions were misled in their purchase decision. You did just change the definition of an LE - and those buyers likely would have voted differently with their wallet knowing this now.

I do believe start up manufacturers (JPOP, JJP, SkitB, PP) should just focus on getting a solid game in the market, filling orders in a timely fashion, and produce a "bling kit" if you want to make more money. Complicating a production line that is already way behind in production run - be careful biting off more than you can chew. Ford started off with "only black" for a reason. As his business grew, he was proven wrong and the market forced change. But he had a thriving business first.

I wish all the best but this hobby is getting nuts. Bling is cool but get the base products out first please. Pretty please. With sugar on top.

Yes, I'm quoting myself. I get the thread is long but some of you slamming those who are upset - recognize where LE buyers are coming from. Rather than preaching rich people shouldn't complain.

#682 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

Ebay link
Free shipping! So this new LE is now selling below $9K.

This one is below $9k or best offer!

ebay.com link » Wizard Of Oz 75th Anniversary Ruby Red Edition Pinball Machine

#683 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

Ebay link
Free shipping! So this new LE is now selling below $9K.

Why does the Ebay listing say estimated shipping in November when the games are not supposed to be made until next Spring?
Digging further in the description it does say June 2014.

#684 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

Ebay link
Free shipping! So this new LE is now selling below $9K.

They lowered their price - they must have just realized how ugly it is.

Meanwhile, the ECLEs are still going for over 10k.

#685 5 years ago

CraZ4Pin said:Why on Earth could the 'Regular' WOZ NOT have ended up in the WB catalog?? They make it sound like they had to come out with a 75th Anniversary Edition in order to get into the catalog (end quote)

That's what I thought too.

Why not just use a Standard WOZ with a special 75th Anniversary Translite, limited to 1000 (tranlites) only.

That way the LE Guys still feel special. And JJP have something for the catalog. It would cost no extra to make a new transite (except for the design)

If any existing WOZ buyers *reaaaally* want a special anniversary translite, JJP can sell them one for $100 and everyone is happy.

Just like Stern did with the Tron translites. Want a chicks translite? $80 and one is yours. Winner. Everyone is happy.

PS I am available for market consultation any time. I am very cheap.

rd.

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#686 5 years ago

I was just relaxing eating a Kit Kat and I stumbled onto this "limited edition" Kit Kat and now my standard kit Kat just doesn't taste as good! Nestlé never said anything about running LE bars freakin game changer man... I'm switching to Snickers screw this!
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#687 5 years ago

Jack has said that the market dictated the price and new red version. And who can argue that? The original LEs sold out way before the first one was ever made. When they were actually being produced, distributors who had hoarded them, like Automated, began pumping the prices as they were still being sought after. I'm sure Jack saw this, as well as the clamor for making the WOZ75 available, and decided he would charge a price that would make it difficult for anybody to flip for a higher price. Why should somebody else make money off of his idea and his work? I think the people who are most pissed off are the people who have had every intention of flipping their machine. Jack has simply decided to do what concert and theater promoters have been doing - pumping up the price so high that the scalpers can't make a profit off of their work.

Full disclosure: I bought a ECLE from Automated for 9k. Am I disappointed? Sure, but I'll still be first in line for a castle and a topper. Am I going to cancel my Hobbit preorder? Hell no - with a dragon and underground tunnels, not to mention the LCD, RGB LEDs and (hopefully) improved GI, I'm still totally psyched. But then again, I buy the machines to play, not to sell.

(And it is VERY difficult to talk pinball machines without making a cargument...there are many similarities!)

#688 5 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

If you want a WoZ just be patient. You'll be able to find a nice HUO one down the road for much cheaper. The way JJP is pumping them out you might be able to find one someday just by dumpster diving…

Yes but you will not get the new limited edition collectors box.

#689 5 years ago
Quoted from aberdeentp:

one volcano burps out more greenhouse gasses than humans do in many years.

Its not just volcanoes, its scientifically demonstrated it is the sun's number of sun spots flared off each year. See the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum

Science and pinball rule!

#690 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I think the people who are most pissed off are the people who have had every intention of flipping their machine

So the collector of an original Picaso painting is just in it for the money. Please brother.

#691 5 years ago

again, what "clamor"? i saw nothing on pinside (maybe i missed it?) where people were begging for another le?

some jjp apologists are really stretching credulity with the pricing excuses... the "pump up the prices so the scalpers don't profit" dog don't hunt... that presumes that EVERYONE who buys a machine is buying from a flipper... if that is indeed true, jack has an issue with his distributors (including himself, since you could buy directly from him) backdooring inventory... believe me, i'm no fan of flippers, but laying the price increase at their feet is disingenuous at best...

#692 5 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

So the collector of an original Picaso painting is just in it for the money. Please brother.

Absolutely. Because they know they can enjoy it for a few years and most likely sell it for more. I don't think anybody would buy a pricey painting if they thought they'd lose money on it.

Quoted from ccotenj:

again, what "clamor"? i saw nothing on pinside (maybe i missed it?) where people were begging for another le?
some jjp apologists are really stretching credulity with the pricing excuses... the "pump up the prices so the scalpers don't profit" dog don't hunt... that presumes that EVERYONE who buys a machine is buying from a flipper... if that is indeed true, jack has an issue with his distributors (including himself, since you could buy directly from him) backdooring inventory... believe me, i'm no fan of flippers, but laying the price increase at their feet is disingenuous at best...

There were people on Pinside saying how cool it was and asking if they could get one. Also, there were apparently people at the Expo questioning him about it and wondering if it would be available. And I'm not defending him or making excuses at all. Just trying to figure out how he's thinking - seemed like a good theory at the time.

#693 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Absolutely. Because they know they can enjoy it for a few years and most likely sell it for more. I don't think anybody would buy a pricey painting if they thought they'd lose money on it.

A quarter has two sides to it - heads and tails. You're choosing to see one side only to support your argument. Collectors don't always collect to profit. Pen & Teller's, Teller collects Houdini artifacts. All for profit? Try and remove the emotion of your position and understand there are two sides to this situation.

#694 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

JJP can't even get 1/2 of the original, paid in full, LE orders out the door.

I'm not worried they will suddenly go into high gear and start making too many of something.

Yes, the Ruby Red 75s kind of epitomize the current state of this hobby in a nutshell:

Used to be a pinball company would commemorate a record accomplishment (like breaking sales-records, IE., TAF @ 20K units) before issuing an LE.

These days, a start-up company issues a SECOND "LE" (with 1500 units)--after shipping only 500 of the original 1000 "LEs".

Wow, how times have changed.

#695 5 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

Especially your post !

Still don't like it eh that a new pinball manufacture blew the socks off the competition with their first machine? WOZ is one heck of an amazing pinball machine and after owning it for a week I can say without a doubt that it's the best pinball machine I've ever played.

#696 5 years ago

Legendary poo will hit the fan if Ruby ones are made before some of the original ECLE pre-orders are delivered. I have invested heavily in popcorn stock in preparation for this event.

#697 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Still don't like it eh that a new pinball manufacture blew the socks off the competition with their first machine?

Laughable ! That game will be nothing in 6 months . People will move on and forget about WOZ !

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#698 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

WOZ is one heck of an amazing pinball machine and after owning it for a week I can say without a doubt that it's the best pinball machine I've ever played.

Might wanna play some more titles.

#699 5 years ago

I think Jack looked around and thought: "Holy crap, I sold all of these WoZs for $6500, and now everybody else is getting $8500 for them! Why can't I do that! Oh...wait...I make the machines..why can't I just make more, and sell for $9k! Now I'm in on the action!"

#700 5 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

Legendary poo will hit the fan if Ruby ones are made before some of the original ECLE pre-orders are delivered. I have invested heavily in popcorn stock in preparation for this event.

What do you like on your popcorn?

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