(Topic ID: 133931)

WOZ $500 Price Increase


By bobukcat

4 years ago



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  • 507 posts
  • 169 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by maddog14
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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There are 507 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 11.
#351 4 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

The only thing I didn't get was a manual.

and thats extra right ?

#352 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Good point...
Can you expand on how their difficulty properly clearcoating a plywood playfield falls under the "new innovations" category of excuses though?

Same stuff has happened to plenty of sterns. The big mistake was JJP assuming there playfields were built better and not applying mylar in high wear areas.

#353 4 years ago

Someone once told me not to confuse activity with production. I have had "top ten" titles in my basement for some time. If I had to make the choice today, I would give up two of my other pins for my WoZLE. I have owned WoZLE for a year now. Even a year later, that game gets played 4 to 1 over others. So I do agree the price is high, higher than I paid (I was a pre-order).

But I can tell you they are in a class of their own. It is hard to compare an IJ or CV to a WoZLE (at least it is hard to compare for me).

The market will speak. I would have thought they hit the ceiling at the 9K mark. But something clearly is driving Jack to increase prices. My guess is it is the non-savvy buyer. The buyer who sees it on location or in some magazine and just buys it because they want one. The buyer that really doesn't have a baseline of what a pinball should cost them.

There is also something psychological about different price point barriers. For example for a lot of people, 9K is about the same as a "10K investment". A lot of people think in 5K chunks for "entertainment" options for their homes. So if something is $9,000 or $9,500, it probably is going to be the same end decision. I think this is difficult for Pinsiders to swallow because we know the pricing history. But to the ignorant buyer they will still pull the trigger, thus giving more margin to Jack.

We need to remember the market is much larger than this board's online community.

Again, time will tell.....should be interesting to watch.

#354 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

No one gets into pinball due to greed.

If you are talking about the future generation of pinball collectors, you are 100% correct!

Broke.jpg

#355 4 years ago

and watch the next stern's games go up......

#356 4 years ago

9.5k US = 14,444k NZ + (500)est , shipping + gst of 15% = 17,250 NZ

Good luck JJP ... Sales must be strong in the U.S.A

#357 4 years ago

Your avatar sums it up perfectly Kiwipinhead.

#358 4 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

and watch the next stern's games go up......

But competition can only be good for pinball

#359 4 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

9.5k US = 14,444k NZ + (500)est , shipping + gst of 15% = 17,250 NZ
Good luck JJP ... Sales must be strong in the U.S.A

I'm REALLY sorry to see that for you down there.

#360 4 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

I'm REALLY sorry to see that for you down there.

Doesn't really matter ... We just don't buy them.

The will is strong within us.

If you don't get the latest and greatest pinball machine, it's hardly the end of the world, in the bigger scheme of things.

rd

#361 4 years ago

Especially with Stern games!

#362 4 years ago

Don't order with endless pinball in ca . 2weeks since game shipped and no delivery . Guess that is what happens when you pay in full back in March . Bad business .

#363 4 years ago

No manual is ok with my purchase. Everyone here loves playing WOZ. It gets support from my wife & mother in law, who don't play pinball much. Except for the WOZ. So maybe this is why demand is still high. Father in law is in his 70's & enjoys this pin over all the others.

#364 4 years ago

We're in the digital age. Paper manuals are SO last century anyway. WOZ has the manual on-screen. Your display is out? Download the damn thing.

#365 4 years ago

I'm thinking JJP is selling them as fast as they can make them. Can't blame them for maximizing their profit, that's what I would do but at these levels, I have purchased my last JJP NIB.

#366 4 years ago
Quoted from John_in_NC:

I'm thinking JJP is selling them as fast as they can make them.

but is this the case tho ? ..

#367 4 years ago

Anyone know what their current production numbers are, as in how many they can make/ship per week?

I don't know why that sort of info fascinates me but it does, hoping they are getting it all together so the Hobbit roll out goes fast&furious.

#368 4 years ago

People may not get into pinball because of greed, but that doesn't mean pinball people can't be greedy.

#369 4 years ago

Dear god,
He really is taking Fxck the consumer to a whole level.
Thanks jack!
A NIB JJP is even more of a snowballs chance in my case.

#370 4 years ago

They've been selling woz for how many years? Next....

#371 4 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Have thought about it. Warranty would be the only issue particularly in Australia - may be ok in Canada.

The margins are low on new games, it would cost more to buy a game and ship than already available in Australia our dollar is $.72c
At the current dollar we would make $250 on a new 75th game.

#372 4 years ago

Has Stern EVER increased their price throughout production? Even when a vault edition comes out, if there's a price increase it's usually justified (LED's over incadescent, new artwork, updated bezel, improved reliability (stronger iron monger on iron man).

Jack has done nothing, but hey if you still want a wizard of oz that I announced 4-1/2 years ago you can still buy one for $2k more than what I was asking the pre-orders for. Even calculating inflation, 2011 dollars = $6900
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com

except all the R&D is paid for, so building a Woz today should be cheaper (unless he planned on ammortizing R&D for this long all along)

#373 4 years ago

Automotive makers have mid-year price increases some times. Usually tied to prices of materials, steel, oil, rubber, etc. $200- 500 dollars lots of times. But that is for a $30,000 automobile. $500 jump is really big on a PB game. Only thing that goes up faster than that is my Hamilton County Property tax bill each six months.

#374 4 years ago

I've read The Hobbit book several times, there was no need for it to be made into 3 movies (let alone 3 long movies) it could have been a lot better at 110 minutes. But Peter Jackson is not interested in making a great tight movie, he's more about making a miniseries out of a 200 page book.

As far as the comparisons to Stern (WoZ). I will agree 100% that the early price fpr WoZ LE at $6500 was a great price for what you got. And while I do see that was a early price discount to get the company started and likely it should have been a $7000+ game. But the point many people feel about WoZ is they don't like it. I mean they don't like playing it, so if it was a great price it still doesn't mean it's better than a simpler game like Tron or AcDc premium. AcDc premium is a great comparison because it was probably $6500 -$6700.

To say PotC or Tspp are not well built is the opposite of my experience. I've had my PotC for over 8 years with just one issue which was one light bulb burned out and the game looks 'as new'. Tspp is a very deep game with as many flippers as WoZ and more things to shoot at. My biggest problem with WoZ has always been one ramp on a wide body pin. Tspp has 4 ramps (although three are short ramps) and Tspp actually has 4 things to shoot at from the upper right flipper Quicky Mart, left ramp, comic book guy and pops/timer shot.

#375 4 years ago
Quoted from ledge:

but is this the case tho ? ..

They seem to be cranking out the WOZ's still and it's been maybe a year or more since all of the LE's shipped. The way Jack has been talking it sounds like if there's still demand for WOZ that they will renew the license.

I think the fact that WOZ appears to still be selling well shows how small of a segment of the pinball buying market we are here on Pinside.

#376 4 years ago

JJP FB pg shows many new WOZ parts just in will be building Woz for some time still

25
#377 4 years ago

Wow, some of the comments really reflect the current socialist climate as of late. People thinking they can dictate what something should sell for. JJP is somehow f**king customers? JJP can ask WHATEVER they want!! they make a product, they sell the product. YOU DONT HAVE TO BUY IT! I don't like the upward trend in pricing so... I won't be buying. Simple, nobody is screwing anyone.

I recently got a great deal on an HUO pin, it was known what I paid for it and when I went so sell it one person actually had the nerve to cite what I paid and wanted me to justify my asking price (which was still under market).

Point is, the way free market works is, something is worth what someone is willing to pay not what you think it SHOULD sell for. As long as JJP sells (as many as they want to sell) at the current pricing, they are priced right. Vote with your wallet, don't like the price, don't buy. Enough of us do that and the price will come down, hopefully not at the expense of quality though.

#378 4 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

No manual is ok with my purchase. Everyone here loves playing WOZ. It gets support from my wife & mother in law, who don't play pinball much. Except for the WOZ. So maybe this is why demand is still high. Father in law is in his 70's & enjoys this pin over all the others.

Same here. Friends that stop by that don't play pinball regularly say it's really cool and is the most impressive pinball machine that they have seen. Heck my Dad likes ACDC but would prefer to play WOZ any day over it.

#379 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

They seem to be cranking out the WOZ's still and it's been maybe a year or more since all of the LE's shipped. The way Jack has been talking it sounds like if there's still demand for WOZ that they will renew the license.

This is great news. I don't mean to sound like I'm anti-WoZ. I'm glad it was a success, but I just don't like it from my limited play, same as I don't like Mustang or TWD. It's probably fine but just not my cup of tea. I just wish JJP could make games with greater frequency, one game every three years is not going to cut it. If a game is a horrible failure like WWE LE it will be murder waiting anohter year for the next game.

I do think however that Stern might be too rapid, in that they jsut Rush every game out super quick and if they had allowed the games like Avengers to be tested and maybe revised they could have made a much better game (same with a X-men) that was criminal the games need over a year to get good code and they have ball stuck issues like Avengersi and poorly made Wolverine figure out of the box. At least JJP seems to be taking time instead of shipping games on a tight deadline like might be the case with Stern.

#380 4 years ago
Quoted from John_in_NC:

Wow, some of the comments really reflect the current socialist climate as of late.

I don't know what you're talking about. I just think that all pinball machines should cost the same amount of money for all consumers.

#381 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Has Stern EVER increased their price throughout production?

Yes, yes they have. They do it through their distributors. If a machine is a hot seller, the price will go up. If there are not many of that particular machine left, the price goes up. If they are not selling, the price goes down a bit. I'm talking the street price, not the MSRP. The actual price you pay changes all the time with Stern depending on market conditions.

I don't mind people making comparisons between the two manufacturers, but at least make them correct comparisons.

#382 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

And while I do see that was a early price discount to get the company started and likely it should have been a $7000+ game.

The problem is that JJP did not sell the price as a 'discount'. His premise was that Stern was overcharging with multiple editions that weren't feature-packed enough. His $6500 pricetag was what he considered fair value for a full-feature pinball machine. That's always been my one problem with Jack, not his game or how long it takes. He basically pre-sold games on a premise that Stern was doing it 'all wrong' and ripping off customers. I don't know if he's humbled a bit but he's certainly learned that manufacturing is not a cheap endeavor and you can't take the collective knowledge/experience of 30+ years in pinball and recreate it in 2 years.

#383 4 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Yes, yes they have. They do it through their distributors. If a machine is a hot seller, the price will go up. If there are not many of that particular machine left, the price goes up. If they are not selling, the price goes down a bit. I'm talking the street price, not the MSRP. The actual price you pay changes all the time with Stern depending on market conditions.
I don't mind people making comparisons between the two manufacturers, but at least make them correct comparisons.

Just because distributors increase there price does not mean Stern has increased there price . The distributors will dump games or squeeze margins.There is a thread on distributors pricing running now. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-doesnt-stern-have-transparent-pricing

#384 4 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

Just because distributors increase there price does not mean Stern has increased there price . The distributors will dump games or squeeze margins.There is a thread on distributors pricing running now. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-doesnt-stern-have-transparent-pricing

Actually, they do it themselves by forcing distributors to take a bad machine with a good one. For instance, you want a KISS LE to sell? Well you have to take this nice WWE LE to sell as well. Stern does it in a way that isn't as easy to see, but they do it. It is a system that has matured over the years.

In other words, why doesn't Stern have transparent pricing? Because people would complain about the pricing if they knew exactly how it all worked. Much easier to hide it under a veil. That way people like you can't see the bigger system. You can get ticked off at a specific distributor, you can go to another car dealership to help you feel better... oh, I meant distributor.

#385 4 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Actually, they do it themselves by forcing distributors to take a bad machine with a good one. For instance, you want a KISS LE to sell? Well you have to take this nice WWE LE to sell as well. Stern does it in a way that isn't as easy to see, but they do it. It is a system that has matured over the years.
In other words, why doesn't Stern have transparent pricing? Because people would complain about the pricing if they knew exactly how it all worked. Much easier to hide it under a veil. That way people like you can't see the bigger system. You can get ticked off at a specific distributor, you can go to another car dealership to help you feel better... oh, I meant distributor.

I guess you could do that if you build more then one game it does not mean they do.

#386 4 years ago
Quoted from John_in_NC:

Wow, some of the comments really reflect the current socialist climate as of late. People thinking they can dictate what something should sell for. JJP is somehow f**king customers? JJP can ask WHATEVER they want!! they make a product, they sell the product. YOU DONT HAVE TO BUY IT! I don't like the upward trend in pricing so... I won't be buying. Simple, nobody is screwing anyone.

Agreed.

If JJP can squeeze more money out of buyers to try to get financially stable- then power to them.... If this allows him to get rid of the long-term preppy model- then the sooner the better! If he's priced it to high, they won't sell.... thats the market at work.

But lets be consistent:

JJP is a for profit company trying to make as much money as they can. The can jack up prices as high as the market will bear..... and shift production to bring in new money, etc, etc. All fair. However, lets finally dispense with the happy horseshit about how Jack is in this "for the love of pinball" - at least anymore than Stern or DP or anyone else is for that matter.

-1
#387 4 years ago
Quoted from iamabearsfan:

Someone once told me not to confuse activity with production. I have had "top ten" titles in my basement for some time. If I had to make the choice today, I would give up two of my other pins for my WoZLE. I have owned WoZLE for a year now. Even a year later, that game gets played 4 to 1 over others. So I do agree the price is high, higher than I paid (I was a pre-order).
But I can tell you they are in a class of their own. It is hard to compare an IJ or CV to a WoZLE (at least it is hard to compare for me).
The market will speak. I would have thought they hit the ceiling at the 9K mark. But something clearly is driving Jack to increase prices. My guess is it is the non-savvy buyer. The buyer who sees it on location or in some magazine and just buys it because they want one. The buyer that really doesn't have a baseline of what a pinball should cost them.
There is also something psychological about different price point barriers. For example for a lot of people, 9K is about the same as a "10K investment". A lot of people think in 5K chunks for "entertainment" options for their homes. So if something is $9,000 or $9,500, it probably is going to be the same end decision. I think this is difficult for Pinsiders to swallow because we know the pricing history. But to the ignorant buyer they will still pull the trigger, thus giving more margin to Jack.
We need to remember the market is much larger than this board's online community.
Again, time will tell.....should be interesting to watch.

It looks like you are getting more for your money. You don't even have to like pinball that much. I believe there is likely to be more potential JJP game buyers in that category than Stern buyers.

#388 4 years ago

I'm curious if the RR edition is actually better than EC edition given that it is 2015 vs 2013 and the pin is heavily reliant on technology. They must have ironed out any kinks in the system and are adding invisiglass and a shaker motor. Based on that, $500 more is justifiable.

#389 4 years ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

I'm curious if the RR edition is actually better than EC edition given that it is 2015 vs 2013 and the pin is heavily reliant on technology. They must have ironed out any kinks in the system and are adding invisiglass and a shaker motor. Based on that, $500 more is justifiable.

ECLE had the invisiglass standard. Now, at $9500, RR has it standard. Shaker was already standard on both. The main WOZ kinks seem to be the 5V light boards and bad run of playfields, which would be fixed on any new WOZ. ECLE regardless of when you bought it was a better value than the RR. The main perk of Ruby Red WOZ is that you can buy it and then get it without waiting years!

#390 4 years ago
Quoted from DefaultGen:

ECLE had the invisiglass standard. Now, at $9500, RR has it standard. Shaker was already standard on both. The main WOZ kinks seem to be the 5V light boards and bad run of playfields, which would be fixed on any new WOZ. ECLE regardless of when you bought it was a better value than the RR. The main perk of Ruby Red WOZ is that you can buy it and then get it without waiting years!

I would argue that the RR has a better topper too

#391 4 years ago

Remember if you are not building 1000 games like the first run costs more now than then

Costs more to build a few hundred woz games than 1000, bill of material costs are higher and they know what that is now

#392 4 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Remember if you are not building 1000 games like the first run costs more now than then
Costs more to build a few hundred woz games than 1000, bill of material costs are higher and they know what that is now

Just the opposite as second and third runs of items have no design cost as first run do

#393 4 years ago

I'm not happy about the crazy prices Stern and JJP are asking, but then again lets compare these prices against an unrelated hobby...Watch collecting. You can buy a brand new Rolex Datejust for 5 to 10k easy, or a 70/80s used one for under 2k. Its just a watch, that no one needs, and the prices are way more about what Rolex can get away with then intrinsic value. This is nowhere near the case for WOZ. If he sold them all for $6,500 there would be no new WOZ's, let alone a second game.

#394 4 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Remember if you are not building 1000 games like the first run costs more now than then
Costs more to build a few hundred woz games than 1000, bill of material costs are higher and they know what that is now

Does that mean Hobbit might stay the same price Wayne?

#395 4 years ago

Its not price gouging, when your trying to keep the doors open.

#396 4 years ago

Well the bill of material cost more on woz than the original sell price, millions more if you include assy and design, ad $250k of redesigned lamp boards etc,

BOM is still higher now, imagine what a tz would cost to remake today?

#397 4 years ago

Is Wayne giving manufacturing advice?

#398 4 years ago
Quoted from FalconPunch:

Does that mean Hobbit might stay the same price Wayne?

Lots of custom parts on hobbit, redesigned troll assy as Williams ones won't fit, even the lockdown bar and lever assy are modified
To suit the button.

I would say the hobbit were sold for what $7000 or $7500 originally, doubt they are that now.

There needs to be base models stripped down for people who want a new game but can't afford an le version somewhere in the pipeline for all manufacturers.

Do a Shrek family guy example, same design different theme

A heap of pro acdc were sold.

#399 4 years ago
Quoted from John_in_NC:

Wow, some of the comments really reflect the current socialist climate as of late. People thinking they can dictate what something should sell for. JJP is somehow f**king customers? JJP can ask WHATEVER they want!! they make a product, they sell the product. YOU DONT HAVE TO BUY IT! I don't like the upward trend in pricing so... I won't be buying. Simple, nobody is screwing anyone.
I recently got a great deal on an HUO pin, it was known what I paid for it and when I went so sell it one person actually had the nerve to cite what I paid and wanted me to justify my asking price (which was still under market).
Point is, the way free market works is, something is worth what someone is willing to pay not what you think it SHOULD sell for. As long as JJP sells (as many as they want to sell) at the current pricing, they are priced right. Vote with your wallet, don't like the price, don't buy. Enough of us do that and the price will come down, hopefully not at the expense of quality though.

You're response makes far too much sense for this thread.

#400 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

But the point many people feel about WoZ is they don't like it. I mean they don't like playing it,

lol ..what people have you been talking too?? jjp haters? I don't know anyone who doesn't like playing it..
so there..

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