(Topic ID: 133931)

WOZ $500 Price Increase


By bobukcat

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 507 posts
  • 169 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by maddog14
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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There are 507 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 11.
22
#151 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Fun is only worth so much before I think "yeah it's fun but its not worth this much". As for Iron Man I think it's a great and fun game but it isn't half the game that WOZ is feature and code wise.

You seem to have this misconception that stuffing more shit into a game and code that is super deep = more fun. Simply not so, and there are plenty of examples to prove the point. AFM and IM are just two of the better examples of less = more fun.

WOZ may have "more to offer" than either of those pins in certain areas. Fun just isn't one of them.

#152 4 years ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

Kiss LE is a ~$9k pin shipped...

Put down the crack pipe and call another distributor. I got a very specific number and as we know those are even a tiny bit more and I still didn't come close to that.

#153 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You seem to have this misconception that stuffing more shit into a game and code that is super deep = more fun. Simply not so, and there are plenty of examples to prove the point. AFM and IM are just two of the better examples of less = more fun.
WOZ may have "more to offer" than either of those pins in certain areas. Fun just isn't one of them.

Again that's your opinion just as I have mine. I tend to prefer games that have a lot of features and a deep ruleset overs one that don't. Would anyone have paid $8k for Iron Man VE? No. It doesn't offer enough feature wise to justify that price tag.

Less doesn't always equal more fun. Iron Man and AFM are both fun games in my book.

#154 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Less doesn't always equal more fun.

Just like more doesn't always equal more fun.

Obviously less doesn't always equal more fun. I've owned LOTR several times. It has plenty of toys, and a very deep ruleset, and I think it is a great, fun pin.

WOZ probably has more toys/features and an even deeper ruleset, but it is a far cry from LOTR in the fun department. And yes, if I really need to give the caveat that this is my opinion, there it is.

#155 4 years ago

For $9000, is any single game more fun than two pros like TRON and AC/DC?

#156 4 years ago
Quoted from Damonator:

RR WOZ before the price increase was $8600 shipped (street price).

Please tell or PM me what distributor is selling them at that price, I've called four and gotten list price plus shipping from all but one, one finally offered to throw in shipping. I'm not doubting you, just saying I must not be calling the right person!

#157 4 years ago

No doubt Jack will blame pinside for the price increase!

-2
#158 4 years ago
Quoted from ff6735:

Put down the crack pipe and call another distributor. I got a very specific number and as we know those are even a tiny bit more and I still didn't come close to that.

Enlighten us oh wise one..everyone talking a good game but not saying nothing.

In all honesty I could care less but it's funny several people insinuating what the price is and quoting me at ~9k (which is list), but not saying what it 'really is'

#159 4 years ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

Enlighten us oh wise one..everyone talking a good game but not saying nothing.
In all honesty I could care less but it's funny several people insinuating what the price is and quoting me at ~9k (which is list), but not saying what it 'really is'

Well below $8k.

14
#160 4 years ago

2010: "Damn Pinball prices are too high.... Stern has a monopoly on the industry- we need more competition!"

2015: "Yay! We now have somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5 companies making pinball... and prices are..... aw shit... higher!?!?!? "

#161 4 years ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

Enlighten us oh wise one..everyone talking a good game but not saying nothing.
'

That is unfair! Until this post, in this thread, I had said exactly nothing.

#162 4 years ago
Quoted from Banker:

This has to do with labor cost going up by government mandate . Every parts manufacturer labor cost is going up.

Wow - so I imagine ALL manufactured items just saw a 5.5% price increase?

No? Anyways...

I think its far more likely JJP has FINALLY gotten a handle on how much it really costs to make these machines and it's a LOT higher than their initial estimates that they based prepay on.

Hard to imagine Jack was able to predict the MASSIVE delays they've experienced releasing not just WoZ but now TH as well. Also, there has to be cost associated with the redesigns they had to do (on both machines!) and the costs they incurred replacing defective WoZ light boards, etc.

So, before they can "wean" themselves off pre-pay- they have to stop "stealing from peter to pay paul" and build enough into the selling price to turn some profit....

Just a guess....

#163 4 years ago

i was at jacks last week and they are still building machines that are payed for an ordered, they do not have any waiting to be bought just sitting there, people are still buying them and there was a shitload of cabinets in the factory....

#164 4 years ago
Quoted from cyclone1234:

i was at jacks last week

Were they building the Hobbit?

#165 4 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

Lawlor LE pin could potentially be priced at 10K then. Absurd.

You guys have no one to blame but yourselves.

Pat Lawlor's new pin, $8K remakes, future LEs and Premiums...

Divide and Conquer: Who will stay in the hobby? vs. Who can no longer afford to stay in the hobby?

It's now time to lie down in the bed you've made.

Sleep tight...

#166 4 years ago
Quoted from cyclone1234:

i was at jacks last week and they are still building machines that are payed for an ordered, they do not have any waiting to be bought just sitting there, people are still buying them and there was a shitload of cabinets in the factory....

There is truth to that.
I have a friend who ordered and paid for a RRLE over two months ago. She still has no game and has not been given any accurate time frame of when she can expect to see the game as far as I know.
Something seems strange about two month delays on a pin that's been in production for as long as WOZ has. And now $500 more?
Too rich and strange for my blood.

#167 4 years ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Stern Pros are getting more and more attractive each day.

True that! You can get almost two pins for the price of one with a very high price tag on it. Not to mention you actually receive your pin soon after paying for it. Imagine that....Enticing indeed.

#168 4 years ago

Well, GOT has probably just risen in price as well as Stern will probably match the price increase. Why are price wars in pinball the wrong way round?

#169 4 years ago
Quoted from HenryWinkler:

Greatest moment in television history... but maybe I'm bias[ed]

It's not even my favorite moment of you jumping a shark:

#170 4 years ago
Quoted from Banker:

Stern and JJP, are using USA labor. Government is mandating increases.

Many states have starting wages above the Federal mandate. IL raised their state wage by 21 percent. The company has to match social security 6.75 percent match plus medicare and Medicare so anytime wages go up the government is the real winner. These pin companies and vendors must also pay insurance now on health care and still keep paying rising electric costs as the nation shifts away from cheaper coal. My electric bills are up 30 percent in the last two years and the state corporation of Va and TN allow for the increase. In TN it's not quite as bad since the govt runs TVA. Like it or not as wages go up, prices go up.as the margins must remain the same.

#171 4 years ago

Maybe JJP is softening up the market and preparing it for a further price increase for Lawlor's pin. Rather than release Lawlor's pin and say charge $1,000 more than WOZ, put the WOZ up $500 now and then another $500 for JJP pin 3. That way when people see the price for Lawlor's they say "oh it's only $500 more than WOZ and it is designed by Pat".

#172 4 years ago

And it's even worse outside the U.S. It's going to be an absolute clusterf&ck down here. When TH was announced AUD was around parity to USD. Now we are at .73!! International buyers are dropping like flies. $500 is lunch money compared to the currency problem. I hope the U.S. market can do the heavy lifting in the volume stakes. Yes, we have to pay more, and some still will, but if international expectations were necessary to get the whole project over the line it will look a little grim.

-1
#173 4 years ago

Actually it will include invisiglass which worth 250$ and printed manual worth 100$ so the increase is 150$. we don't know if a vendor decided to raise a price on certain part + it is a business, they can tag it with whatever price they think is right for their product.

#174 4 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

They must really be selling a lot of these to be able to raise prices (again).

And for Jack to stand up at Pintastic and compare all of his paying customers to the mewling, screaming, crying baby drowning out his droning on.

#175 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Just like more doesn't always equal more fun.
Obviously less doesn't always equal more fun. I've owned LOTR several times. It has plenty of toys, and a very deep ruleset, and I think it is a great, fun pin.
WOZ probably has more toys/features and an even deeper ruleset, but it is a far cry from LOTR in the fun department. And yes, if I really need to give the caveat that this is my opinion, there it is.

I'm still happy that I sold my LOTR for a WOZ ECLE I have more fun playing it then I did LOTR. I took the risk as several of the people that worked on LOTR also worked on WOZ and that's one of the big reasons that the game is so much fun.

#176 4 years ago

Unless you absolutely love the game, I can't imagine many people paying these numbers. I also question sustainability at this price point. It's doubtful most operators can justify 8K-10K for a pinball machine.

I hope I'm wrong.

#177 4 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Please tell or PM me what distributor is selling them at that price, I've called four and gotten list price plus shipping from all but one, one finally offered to throw in shipping. I'm not doubting you, just saying I must not be calling the right person!

PM Sent!

#178 4 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Unless you absolutely love the game, I can't imagine many people paying these numbers. .

The reality is- when people let JJP hold their money for 3 years (Unsecured), they are already "paying" ~$9500 for a pinball machine.

#179 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

The reality is- when people let JJP hold their money for 3 years (Unsecured), they are already "paying" ~$9500 for a pinball machine.

You're right, but most consumers don't look at it in those terms.

#180 4 years ago

If my WOZ keeps going up in value I just might be able to afford JJP #3.

#181 4 years ago

Maybe now people will stop buying it and they can get Hobbit on the production line.

#182 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Just like more doesn't always equal more fun.
Obviously less doesn't always equal more fun. I've owned LOTR several times. It has plenty of toys, and a very deep ruleset, and I think it is a great, fun pin.
WOZ probably has more toys/features and an even deeper ruleset, but it is a far cry from LOTR in the fun department. And yes, if I really need to give the caveat that this is my opinion, there it is.

have to be trolling with this. WOZ is far more fun than the grind that LOTR is. Two of my favorite tables but LOTR gets to be like pulling teeth after a while.

#183 4 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

have to be trolling with this. WOZ is far more fun than the grind that LOTR is. Two of my favorite tables but LOTR gets to be like pulling teeth after a while.

He's not trolling. I think LOTR is a much better pin than woz. I also don't subscribe that more toys and more code does not always equal more fun.

#184 4 years ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

Kiss LE is a ~$9k pin shipped...

not yet but it's getting there

#185 4 years ago
Quoted from JosiahCox:

There is truth to that.
I have a friend who ordered and paid for a RRLE over two months ago. She still has no game and has not been given any accurate time frame of when she can expect to see the game as far as I know.
Something seems strange about two month delays on a pin that's been in production for as long as WOZ has. And now $500 more?
Too rich and strange for my blood.

image.jpg

#186 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I saved money on my WOZ! The preorder model is still alive!!!

From fall 2011 to 2014 sp 500 went from 1200 to 1800 save I don't think so

#187 4 years ago

Why do you guys keep bringing up the stock market? Who cares about f**king stocks? Pinball isn't an investment, and my comment about saving money on WOZ and the preorder model was a JOKE.

Now, before the mods get their panties in a bunch, let's post updates about Hobbit.

Anyone? Anyone? No. I didn't think so.

#188 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Now, before the mods get their panties in a bunch, let's post updates about Hobbit.

Oops. My bad. This is the WOZ price increase thread. I can't keep my JJP-bashing threads straight anymore.

-11
#189 4 years ago

Kiss LE has an $8790 msrp. Whether you like the game or not, with WOZ there is no question you are getting $700 more game. No matter which way you look at it (build quality, toys, technology, innovation, standard features), if KISS LE is $8790, WOZ should be $10000!

Obviously making WOZ at the original price point has not been profitable - the build cost is just too high. As a previous poster said, this is just a way to ease us into the new "realistic"/profitable pricing for future releases....Hobbit and Lawlor. Intentionally or not, JJP Is being positioned at the very luxury end of the market. It's the Rolls Royce to Sterns Ford.

#190 4 years ago
Quoted from BinGhanem:

Actually it will include invisiglass which worth 250$ and printed manual worth 100$ so the increase is 150$. we don't know if a vendor decided to raise a price on certain part + it is a business, they can tag it with whatever price they think is right for their product.

Only for the RR model, the standard model got a $500 price bump with nothing added to it.

#191 4 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

LOTR gets to be like pulling teeth after a while.

I find this to be true with all of KJ coded games .

-7
#192 4 years ago

Well said cooked71. I wonder how many guys posting in this thread are even in the market for the machine...I'm not in the market for a Kiss LE so I could care less. BMW just raised base prices for their cars too. Do Honda buyers care??

Maybe LE machines and JJP machines are meant for the affluent home collector that wants the "best." Not necessarily meant for ops and yes you will see and OZ on location, maybe an LE or 2, but most likely Stern Pro's.

There is a market for premium products and obviously a $500 increase on a $9k product, is not pricing any of those customers out of it.

#193 4 years ago
Quoted from wtatumjr:

If my WOZ keeps going up in value I just might be able to afford JJP #3.

Sooo...... Where are these mythical buyers of used Woz's for premium prices?

#194 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

I'll just leave this here.olbgp.jpg

Use shorter legs

#195 4 years ago

Wow. It's amazing how any post about $ and JJP elicits so much emotion.

All this speculation about "who in their right mind would purchase a WoZ at that price"....

PanzerFreak's post identified all the reasons why the cost is so high. There is a lot in there. It is a premium machine for a premium price. If you don't find the game fun, then it's not worth it to you. If you like the game and theme, then it is worth it.

Personally, I love the theme and I love the game. I purchased a NIB RR about 8 months ago. Full list price. I am happy with the purchase because I enjoy the game. For me, it was worth it.

16
#196 4 years ago
Quoted from PinJeff:

There is a lot in there.

It's not like "a lot" of anything expensive.

Inserts are $.03 each.

Coils are $4

Pop mechs are $1
-

Even if you want to talk about finished parts, in quanties over 1000:

A finished, decaled cab is $400

A playfield is $200

A motherboard $50

A blockbuster movie license $20

You guys are putting the pussy on a pedestal again......

#197 4 years ago

I am still considering a WOZ RR at $9500. I just wanted to see #3 before I commit to that. I didn't know how JJP could make a profit on the WOZ at less than 8K. It seems the WOZ pin is very successful outside of the Pinside community, and JJP is getting lots of orders for it.

#198 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Were they building the Hobbit?

no....sept i heard

#199 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

In a related story, my ECLE just went up in value as well.

No, it didn't.

#200 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I'm still happy that I sold my LOTR for a WOZ ECLE I have more fun playing it then I did LOTR. I took the risk as several of the people that worked on LOTR also worked on WOZ and that's one of the big reasons that the game is so much fun.

You forgot to say in your opinion!

Most would disagree.

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