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(Topic ID: 270832)

Woz 2.0 lighting


By RoboBot

4 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 35 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by zaphX
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 4 months ago

Hey guys, been dealing with the new service manager at JJP, Barry. Nice guy. Sold me on the new 2.0 boards. They are red boards they have in stock. He says no telling when green board will be back in stock. Cost me over $8 bills.

Anyone else upgrade and find the new red 2.0 boards and much duller than the 7.5 boards? Looks like they reduced the led boards from four leds to one and thus the duller effect. Certainly something JJP should have said on their website before you bought. We were thrilled with JJP. Any thoughts or these??? This was hard earned money in a crazy economy that we feel taken advantage of. His responses in emails are sporadic. Once you spend two days working on replacing plus all the cash, you feel a little ripped off when you could have searched the the original issue better.

Just frustrated, trusting and now broke. JJP could have been more up front about the color change. Barry said there is a difference. Thanks for telling us now, two days and eight hundred dollars later.

Thanks for any advice.

#2 4 months ago

One more thing, Barry tells me the that me and my family of four have"sensitive eyes". Really bothered by that. No big deal if one person sees it that way, but insulting if your entire family sees the same issue.

-1
#3 4 months ago

Simple solution would be to reinstall your original boards and sell someone the 2.0 kit. Problem solved.

#4 4 months ago

If you stuck with the original boards, you would have eventually had issues with them failing and spent a lot of money and time replacing them. The 2.0 boards are much more reliable. IMO, there really is no choice but to upgrade at some point. Some have complained the the GI is a bit dimmer with the 2.0 system. I don’t notice it that much as the GI was always dim with WOZ.

Make sure each GI board is properly centered so the LED is right in the middle of the little column that diffuses the light onto the playfield.

I believe I heard JJP is considering adding in code that brightens the GI, but I’m not sure if that was rumor, wishful thinking, or real.

You can turn the general LED lighting up in the settings; I did that, and it helped a lot. So, if you are referring to all the LEDs and not just the GI, try that.

If you are talking about the GI, then some have installed spot lights or pinstadiums to help, and you could consider that as well.

In short, I’m sorry you feel bummed out about this, but rest assured that the conversion was necessary and increases the value of your game.

#5 4 months ago

I have talked with Barry and have not been impressed. He is not who I would want in charge of talking to customers.

#6 4 months ago

I dealt with Barry at American Pinball and was not impressed at all. Sad to see him land at JJP.

#7 4 months ago

Maybe I didn't understand your original post, OP. Are you saying that there are two versions of the 2.0 light boards -- one that is green and one that is red -- and that the red is known to be dimmer than the green? If so, that's something I didn't know. When did they make the switch and why?

#8 4 months ago

GI lighting on the 2.0 conversion gives off less light. Unfortunately, that's just a fact. JJP hasn't said it was revising code, I think that's wishful thinking.

#9 4 months ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Maybe I didn't understand your original post, OP. Are you saying that there are two versions of the 2.0 light boards -- one that is green and one that is red -- and that the red is known to be dimmer than the green? If so, that's something I didn't know. When did they make the switch and why?

I think he was referring to the older green boards in parts store you can longer get.

#10 4 months ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

No, 2.0 boards are red. I think he was referring to the older green boards in parts store you can longer get.

My 2.0 boards are green.

#11 4 months ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

My 2.0 boards are green.

Mind blown. Ive only seen the red one's. Do you think you have a first run of 2.0 boards, Is there a date?
Thanks

#12 4 months ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Mind blown. Ive only seen the red one's. Do you think you have a first run of 2.0 boards, Is there a date?
Thanks

I doubt it because I bought a kit. They are the ones with a separate and not integrated bag board, so I know they changed things at some point to integrate that part. I can check for a date later.

#13 4 months ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

I can check for a date later.

2016

#14 4 months ago

Man you guys are quick! So to clarify a couple things, Barry sounds like a real nice guy and spent a long time talking to me, but in the end never mentioned the color issues other than saying some people who are purest will see the white lights more blueish when I asked him if anyone had any issues with the 2.0 boards.

Also, when I say Barry sold me the boards, he sold me on the red boards. I decided to upgrade after speaking to Jim who was also super nice and took a lot of time with me. So rather than continuing to try to trouble shoot the boards, I finally decide to upgrade and order the new ones figuring I will need to do that someday anyhow and we love the WOZ.

Even though they say out of stock, JJP builds the kit when you order. So a couple weeks later, I get an email from Barry saying they don't have the green boards in stock, but the red ones. I ask Barry what the difference is? He says no difference and he thinks they look nicer than the green. I asked why red? He said that before he came to company, these were ordered as prototypes and for some reason they got a hundred of them. He says they won't order more until they sell all of these and no telling when that will be. Well nuts! What are my options now? Wait until??? Also, I could have been told that when I ordered than weeks later. I would have continued trying to trace the issue. Anyhow, he assures me multiple times that the red "prototypes" are the same as the green boards. So I say go ahead. Then he tells me if anything is wrong, he will fix it. I asked him what should go wrong? He said nothing other than another guy who is a purest didn't like the red. I will say that I saw another pinsider later selling a ruby red edition with red boards. I asked Barry about that and he said some red boards were installed in new machines. Confused.

After I talked to Barry about the install, he said there were differences, but JJP went with the best leds available. Still, could have said they are dimmer.

Ok, long enough story. Again, not a Barry bashing. Just saying JJP should tell you upfront when you sink $800+. Just asking if anyone else notices the difference who did the upgrade with the red boards in particular? The 7.5s really lit up to us. Sounds like some of you do notice it and that confirms my eyes.
The boards are centered perfectly. It's just a bummer after all of that money and work to turn it on and find that somewhere over the rainbow is a cloud.

Btw, the 2.0 install directions they updated in April are pretty good. Out of the gate, some of the boards had a different part number in the instructions. Followed other pinsiders' posts who had done the change and that too was helpful. If anyone needs help, happy to give pointers if you ever decide to go with 2.0s. Take your time and plan for every minute of 12-14 hours for the first time! No one is kidding about that. Thanks everyone.

#15 4 months ago

Have you gone into settings and upped the LED brightness level? I did after the install, and it helps.

#16 4 months ago

Yes, this is a known issue with the 2.0 upgrade kit. Definitely a real bummer.

#17 4 months ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Yes, this is a known issue with the 2.0 upgrade kit. Definitely a real bummer.

There’s a known slight dimming with 2.0, but to OPs point, is there a difference between red 2.0 and green 2.0? I guess someone with both would have to tell us . . . .

#18 4 months ago

Yes. I just kicked it up from normal to top level which is high. Yep. Made a difference. Not much, but can't complain either. Thank you.

Don't know about difference between red and green. JJP says no difference when I asked. Also why I posted so others are aware. I had read a lot of threads before buying and don't recall any discussion on brightness, so hope this helps someone when deciding. I decided too because of people talking about price going up (which was confirmed could happen) and boards not being available at some point. Rumors or not, I didn't want to risk missing out and stuck piecing out for years. If you're on the fence with 7.5s, in hindsight, I'd probably try to trace issue if simple. Otherwise, it's probably worth the "light" sacrifice in the end. I will say it again, just good business to know in advance of what you are trading off when upgrading. In the end, with your help, the trade off is now negligible and there's a piece of mind knowing you don't have to worry about static electricity and the next board failing.

Last question, anyone know if highest lighting level puts more of a strain on leds? Heard somewhere not to let WOZ sit in attract mode or turned on without playing. Reason I ask.

Thanks again!

#19 4 months ago

2.0 kit (green boards) seems plenty bright to me.
IMG_0083 (resized).jpeg

#20 4 months ago
Quoted from RoboBot:

Once you spend two days working on replacing plus all the cash, you feel a little ripped off when you could have searched the the original issue better.

I'm really sorry that you're disappointed - have you tried bumping up the LED intensity in the software?

#21 4 months ago

Regarding photo of 2.0: Don't disagree if you didn't see 7.5s hours earlier. 7.5 leds had four leds on each light. New ones have one per light. New boards are thinner and might even seem cheaper because they look like they have less going on with them. But, they also just feel/look like they are made better because of that. Ethernet cables and all. Just feels better. Anyone walking up to table for first time will just be impressed. To your point!

#22 4 months ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

I doubt it because I bought a kit. They are the ones with a separate and not integrated bag board, so I know they changed things at some point to integrate that part. I can check for a date later.

So there are 2 versions of the 2.0 kit ? One with a separate bag board and one integrated ?

#23 4 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

So there are 2 versions of the 2.0 kit ? One with a separate bag board and one integrated ?

The original kit and set of boards had a separate bag board. At some point, they integrated the bag board into one of the LED boards. It was explained to me at one point as being an easier design or perhaps one that didn’t have unnecessary components, but I forget. Anyway, the newer kits have an integrated bag board so you don’t have to worry about mounting the bag board separately.

#24 4 months ago

So let me correct myself on the 7.5 boards. They are not made of four leds. Looks like a couple. They are simply bigger. I attached a photo for anyone unfamiliar. My apologies for that.

Also, bag board is separate. That came green. In fact, it was a mix of red and green. Big boards were red and smaller ones were a mix. Don't think that helps anything here but I attached another photo.

IMG_20200613_163148711 (resized).jpgIMG_20200613_163327958 (resized).jpg

#25 4 months ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

The original kit and set of boards had a separate bag board. At some point, they integrated the bag board into one of the LED boards. It was explained to me at one point as being an easier design or perhaps one that didn’t have unnecessary components, but I forget. Anyway, the newer kits have an integrated bag board so you don’t have to worry about mounting the bag board separately.

It must have changed recently. I got my 2.0 kit 6 months ago it has the separate bag board.

#26 4 months ago
Quoted from RoboBot:

So let me correct myself on the 7.5 boards. They are not made of four leds. Looks like a couple. They are simply bigger. I attached a photo for anyone unfamiliar. My apologies for that.
Also, bag board is separate. That came green. In fact, it was a mix of red and green. Big boards were red and smaller ones were a mix. Don't think that helps anything here but I attached another photo.
[quoted image][quoted image]

So you have the bag board too. And I see you also have small led boards that are green too.
Are the GIs one all red ?

#27 4 months ago

I upgraded to 2.0 just before adol75 (I think) and my boards are green. Prior to the upgrade the 7.5v system would break often. Game was constantly out of commission. The 2.0 kit did have to be arranged to order. The bag board was separate and had to be installed. The directions were amazing. I considered the project fun. The result was dimmer GI, but complete stability - which was preferable. I ended up getting pinstadiums which are wonderful due to the multiple settings. Now, no more light issues at all. Hood never gets lifted. Happy.

#28 4 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

So you have the bag board too. And I see you also have small led boards that are green too.
Are the GIs one all red ?

Uh, oops. I may be getting my terminology wrong. See the fish shaped LED board with all the data cable connectors. There used to be a separate board that those data cables went into. Maybe it was called the hub board and not the bag board. Sorry.

#29 4 months ago

Both LED packages (referring to the chip) would have three emitters (RGB). The new one just has a frosted lens instead of a clear lens which probably helps blend the color a little better. Can’t really tell if the actual emitters are smaller or just more closely packed in the chip.

It’s good to know they are potentially dimmer though, still running my original 7.5v boards but almost always have at least one GI wigging out on me. One day will have to bite the bullet unfortunately.

#30 4 months ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Uh, oops. I may be getting my terminology wrong. See the fish shaped LED board with all the data cable connectors. There used to be a separate board that those data cables went into. Maybe it was called the hub board and not the bag board. Sorry.

Oh I see. Then I have the same fish but green.
The bag board is the vertical board right below the fish board

#31 4 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

It must have changed recently. I got my 2.0 kit 6 months ago it has the separate bag board.

I installed a kit purchased last October and the fish board was the hub board, and only the BAG was a screwed on board.
The kit I just installed had the hub board separate, so two screwed on boards between BAG and HUB. I believe it was purchased 3/2019.

#32 4 months ago

did the green 2.0 boards or the 7.5V boards actually have 4 separate LED's (R,B,G,W) ? Was there a fourth LED specifically for white or did they do a combo like most RGB LED's
The amount of time I spent fixing/replacing those boards I'd think I'd remember.

#33 4 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

The kit I just installed had the hub board separate, so two screwed on boards between BAG and HUB. I believe it was purchased 3/2019.

Yep. That’s like the one I have. I just mixed up the terms hub and bag. Sorry all for the confusion.

#34 4 months ago
Quoted from merccat:

Both LED packages (referring to the chip) would have three emitters (RGB). The new one just has a frosted lens instead of a clear lens which probably helps blend the color a little better. Can’t really tell if the actual emitters are smaller or just more closely packed in the chip.
It’s good to know they are potentially dimmer though, still running my original 7.5v boards but almost always have at least one GI wigging out on me. One day will have to bite the bullet unfortunately.

Yes the GIs are dimmer, the ones under the inserts have the same brightness
The really different one, and I don't know if it's mine, my memory or everyone is the extra ball light. It's orange but on the yellow side, like almost washed out.

#35 4 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

Yes the GIs are dimmer, the ones under the inserts have the same brightness
The really different one, and I don't know if it's mine, my memory or everyone is the extra ball light. It's orange but on the yellow side, like almost washed out.

How does it look cycling through colors in the LED test? Perhaps one color on the LED is out. I’ve had that happen on Wonka.

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