(Topic ID: 356248)

Wow - Stern and Distributors in FULL PANIC mode with John Wick.

By delt31

73 days ago


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#2851 31 days ago

Subscription based is -not- the answer. Software will be inconsistent between games, most likely get lost somewhere in a cloud over time and costs will only increase.

The only thing we'll be paying for is what was once known as the regular code updates from Stern as games already ship with very immature code and code updates should definitely should be included in with the price of a game or else better just not to release the game if it's not ready.

The fast food talk and current panic meter has me thinking the next game we'll see from Stern is a McDonald's based theme with mechs and toys like a cross between EJ, PF & Wick

#2852 31 days ago
Quoted from Fatsquatch:

The Stern “Army” has been successfully conditioned over the last few years to accept pretty much anything that comes down from the generals; no matter how much of an obvious ripoff it is.
SAD.

lol it’s not like that at all from my perspective imagination. I like pinball I have no illusions that pinball is going to grow much beyond where it’s at.

I spend way too much time on these forums because I don’t have many friends into pinball, they entertain me from time to time if we’re grabbing a beer some where or they come over for a movie night.

In my minds eyes I see potential for building more community. I’m certainty not going to spend 2k for a topper for a mode but for a small monthly fee I would be willing to find extra ways to engage with the community.

John wick style contracts for all the games, not new modes per se but just different ways to engage with what’s already there.

Who can get the best score with one ball, who can get the highest core in 5 minutes there’s plenty of stuff they could do, of course it would have to be a reasonable fee anything over 20 bucks I think would be too much 10 bucks I think would be a sweet spot. 10 bucks a month or 100 bucks a year type of model lol.

#2853 31 days ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Good Lord.... its time to close this thread!
Fast food talk now...

if this thread ever gets locked or goes away
I will quit pinside

#2854 31 days ago
1057DCFB-C655-4CF5-8D1B-59BE624D65FB.gif1057DCFB-C655-4CF5-8D1B-59BE624D65FB.gif
#2855 31 days ago
Quoted from PanzerKraken:

People in this thread just learning how franchises work. Prices for fast food can vary by location

…others apparently learning that runaway inflation affects everyone.

10
#2856 31 days ago
Quoted from Gribbs:

…others apparently learning that runaway inflation affects everyone.

I am pretty sure what has been happening is greedflation, not your standard inflation

#2857 31 days ago
Quoted from underlord:

And that’s a sweet collection you got there neighbor.

Thanks! Need to update the picture it’s now Foo Pro and Police Force in place of Pin Bot and Space Shuttle.

-1
#2858 31 days ago

Since the Disney Boy arrived, the baton was handed, and the huge irony here is that he/it/Stern has created competition in their own backyard; a bet that is surely not going to win. Yeah, ‘we’ represent a small chunk of biz, but if it weren’t for the veterans here, they wouldn’t have grown to where they are now. What does this do? The kids stop going to their backyard to play..too many Lawn Darts.

-1
#2859 31 days ago

The fact that Jerry Thomson and I talked, on the phone, signed ND forms, got excited, shared with my family about it. He even hinted at me doing a few music jingles for 007..then crickets. He came back and said, ‘oh you’re slated for 2024’. He literally talked me down to a measly $250 per finished minute of music. He was telling me a story where a musician wanted 10K for something..yadda yadda. It Jaded me, hence why I can ‘yell at mom’ about it. It forever changed my attitude towards Stern as a company. My music is very good; we wouldn’t have been on the phone if that weren’t the case. My point is that I was left high and dry. (And their probably using my papers nd form to falsify employment for tax purposes..who the hell knows at this point). Yeah, I’m bitter about it.

#2862 30 days ago
Quoted from Doctoroctos:

I thought that way at first, but I think if they release new game modes, features, etc with a fairly cheap a’la carte pricing model (<$20) I would be a sucker. If I can unlock more fun for the price of a combo meal, why not.

The problem is, they will actually hold things back that normally would have been offered in a full code package, but now, "You can customize your game how you want to play it!" And purchase piecemeal content. Of course the pin won't be discounted...

#2863 30 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

The problem is, they will actually hold things back that normally would have been offered in a full code package, but now, "You can customize your game how you want to play it!" And purchase piecemeal content. Of course the pin won't be discounted...

I get where you've coming from with this, but let us not forget the example of Video games that everyone is relying on for this:

VG's are 99% software and 1% hardware cost. So when your pie is that large, expanding it can just seem like "more" and have value.

But how would that work in pinball? The subscription model would need to come with "alternative" game hardware (i.e. for challenges or themed events) different flipper rubbers, a block that makes one shot impossible etc so that the value would be there.

#2864 30 days ago

What if they offer you a complete alternative code for an existing pinball? Like what's supposed to come for CCr.
I think they don't do it yet because it would kill the game rotation. But once the nib sales starts to fall?

#2865 30 days ago

Stern is primarily a manufacturer of hardware, going into subscription based software sales is not going to help turn things around or help deal with their giant factory that needs hundreds of employees to operate and have nothing to do with software. Selling software subs for pins sounds like it's just going to have the opposite effect and turn customers away from investing in future hardware which is what their giant new facility is focused on.

#2866 30 days ago

Will John Wick LEs meet the same fate as Venom LEs? This is the question in my mind today.

10
#2867 30 days ago
Quoted from PanzerKraken:

Stern is primarily a manufacturer of hardware, going into subscription based software sales is not going to help turn things around or help deal with their giant factory that needs hundreds of employees to operate and have nothing to do with software. Selling software subs for pins sounds like it's just going to have the opposite effect and turn customers away from investing in future hardware which is what their giant new facility is focused on.

I work for a computer hardware company , and most of our employees are software. Like 90% of them. Without the software, the hardware is worthless. Our product is good, but it's the software that really sets us apart.

Some of you old guys are living in the past. Pinball has always had "code" in the form of rules, but the total software stack in pinball is going to become more and more important.

You are right they've got a lot of mouths to feed and have to sell machines to keep the lights on, but with 14 other pinball companies trying to eat their cake, software is their main competitive advantage (besides simple economy of scale and a couple of people like Gomez and Elwin)

#2868 30 days ago
Quoted from PanzerKraken:

Stern is primarily a manufacturer of hardware, going into subscription based software sales is not going to help turn things around or help deal with their giant factory that needs hundreds of employees to operate and have nothing to do with software. Selling software subs for pins sounds like it's just going to have the opposite effect and turn customers away from investing in future hardware which is what their giant new facility is focused on.

It’s a terrible business model long term and that’s why the “giant factory” they are operating in will shrink employees and profits as “hardware” sales slow down due over saturation of hardware, slowing demand as a result of the above and high PRICING.

Software subs are coming through IC. The two full teams of people working on IC will be growing.

Want to keep the giant factory rolling? Better lower PRICE substantially. Simple supply and demand

#2869 30 days ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Will John Wick LEs meet the same fate as Venom LEs? This is the question in my mind today.

Probably. Still a good layout. $8300 sound right? Cheese finally got that VenomLE sold. $9k for me

#2870 30 days ago
Quoted from Whistles:

I get where you've coming from with this, but let us not forget the example of Video games that everyone is relying on for this:
VG's are 99% software and 1% hardware cost. So when your pie is that large, expanding it can just seem like "more" and have value.
But how would that work in pinball? The subscription model would need to come with "alternative" game hardware (i.e. for challenges or themed events) different flipper rubbers, a block that makes one shot impossible etc so that the value would be there.

Well my neo geo aes I bought from game dude advertisement/mailorder in 93 with its baller 6800 proc like my amiga takes offense to this 1% hw

#2871 30 days ago
Quoted from PanzerKraken:

Stern is primarily a manufacturer of hardware, going into subscription based software sales is not going to help turn things around or help deal with their giant factory that needs hundreds of employees to operate and have nothing to do with software. Selling software subs for pins sounds like it's just going to have the opposite effect and turn customers away from investing in future hardware which is what their giant new facility is focused on.

Manufacturing capacity does not equal sales.
More offer only equates more demand if the economy is up or your prices are down. None of this are true right now.
The logical next steps are to find new business streams, kill the competition by dumping prices or reduce production. As they are not lowering prices nor production, what can they do to sustain the model?

#2872 30 days ago

I don’t mind the idea of completely new software for an older game - seems interesting - mix up the fun with new code - I could see paying $500ish if I basically get to refresh the experience.

#2873 30 days ago
Quoted from John-from-PA:

I don’t mind the idea of completely new software for an older game - seems interesting - mix up the fun with new code - I could see paying $500ish if I basically get to refresh the experience.

And being the biggest hw manufacturer = having the biggest captive market for sw

18
#2874 30 days ago
Quoted from John-from-PA:

I don’t mind the idea of completely new software for an older game - seems interesting - mix up the fun with new code - I could see paying

Yes, but a delicate balance revisiting works of art..

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#2875 30 days ago
Quoted from PanzerKraken:

Selling software subs for pins sounds like it's just going to have the opposite effect and turn customers away from investing in future hardware which is what their giant new facility is focused on.

That’s what’ll happen with me. If Stern implements such nonsense, I will automatically considered them dead and 100% off my radar.

#2876 30 days ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Will John Wick LEs meet the same fate as Venom LEs? This is the question in my mind today.

Possible. Depends on how the code develops at this point I think. Bond was saved that way.

Quoted from PanzerKraken:

Stern is primarily a manufacturer of hardware, going into subscription based software sales is not going to help turn things around or help deal with their giant factory that needs hundreds of employees to operate and have nothing to do with software. Selling software subs for pins sounds like it's just going to have the opposite effect and turn customers away from investing in future hardware which is what their giant new facility is focused on.

I think fear of "subscriptions" is over blown. They will probably try a few things but the base IC and regular code updates will not change.

#2877 30 days ago

I would imagine they would at least try micro transactions. For example, maybe I’ll try a token type system that will let you bypass something in the game like an achievement that you need like immediately start foo bot multi ball or use to collect that super jackpot. You could never get and sell them for 20 bucks or something just like they do video games like Mortal Kombat where you can buy easy fatality tokens-for $.99 apiece because you can’t remember.

But I’m pretty sure at least the younger generation in their 30s that absolutely hates micro transactions in their video games will likely them from trying to hide specific modes or functions behind a pay wall. Now that Stern has broaden their horizons into influencers on YouTube that cover more things I don’t think Stern would be prepared for a massive review bomb type campaign that influencers can start and can takeoff in a matter of hours that would hurt their reputation. If they thought #WhereIsTheCod was bad wait till millions of followers from these influencers start #negativeCrap.

They open the door to that market and world so I hope they fought of the negative aspects as well as the positives.

That being said, I have no idea why over the years they haven’t done a kit set up like pinball 2000 especially now that you can take a spike two game out of the cabinet with three connectors. If people are smart enough to install their own expression lighting following their directions, which says to remove the playfield, I would assume people are smart enough to install a playfield kit of a different game. I’ve never had space for a massive collection, but I wouldn’t have any problem paying four or $5000 for a premium playfield drop in It’s not like every manufacturer of arcade games in the 70s 80s and 90s didn’t make kits. Maybe when they sell them through distributors, you have to sign up specific type of form or whatever that says there’s no liability but regardless I think it’s wasted money. Seeing how Gomez helped create pinball 2000 and it’s modular system. I would think that he should be well-versed in this.

#2878 30 days ago

Stern's best option is to just leverage IC for the customer. If you get hooked on achievements, learning how the games work and what the rules are, use the app to find places where you can play, etc. then it's a win win for everyone. If they start subscriptions, that might turn a lot of people off to both ownership and usage of the app.

#2879 30 days ago

1st HUO Wick Premium for sale. Low plays.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/178928

#2880 30 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It’s a terrible business model long term and that’s why the “giant factory” they are operating in will shrink employees and profits as “hardware” sales slow down due over saturation of hardware, slowing demand as a result of the above and high PRICING.
Software subs are coming through IC. The two full teams of people working on IC will be growing.
Want to keep the giant factory rolling? Better lower PRICE substantially. Simple supply and demand

I'm sure there were a few power point decks on how much IC and topper margins were going to make. $ signs everywhere.

#2881 30 days ago

Full Panic on the streets of Pinball Distributors

#2882 30 days ago
Quoted from stf_dnx:

What if they offer you a complete alternative code for an existing pinball? Like what's supposed to come for CCr.
I think they don't do it yet because it would kill the game rotation. But once the nib sales starts to fall?

I was just thinking the other day that the GoT playfield would still work ina House of Dragons themed game.

#2883 30 days ago
Quoted from Sorokyl:

I work for a computer hardware company , and most of our employees are software. Like 90% of them. Without the software, the hardware is worthless. Our product is good, but it's the software that really sets us apart.
Some of you old guys are living in the past. Pinball has always had "code" in the form of rules, but the total software stack in pinball is going to become more and more important.
You are right they've got a lot of mouths to feed and have to sell machines to keep the lights on, but with 14 other pinball companies trying to eat their cake, software is their main competitive advantage (besides simple economy of scale and a couple of people like Gomez and Elwin)

Software is important and the future, but not the idea of tying to squeeze customers with stuff like subscriptions. Improving their infrastructure, IC, adding in the online features that Venom, Wick and others are playing with, all great ideas. But at this time when they are having issues moving hardware, shifting to a new model of trying to extort money from customers is not a bright idea.

People are not buying new machines, for stern to start asking them to also start paying subs for features, that's not going to go over well. People are not going to turn around and start buying, if anything it's going to further push away customers.

#2884 30 days ago

How can someone play Venom and not love the coding and IC integration?

It’s the future of pinball

#2885 30 days ago
Quoted from Fatsquatch:

That’s what’ll happen with me. If Stern implements such nonsense, I will automatically considered them dead and 100% off my radar.

No way you will do that Sasquatch !

#2886 30 days ago

TSLA is worth another $1-2 trillion because it is an AI software company and NOT a hardware car maker.

Same with Apple, MSFT, Adbe, AMZN and every other company out there.

Widget sales only is a horrendous model and Stern knows it.

Do they seem to give a F about raising prices from $10,500 to $13k on LEs. No

It’s funny how the newbies that don’t even buy those game opine on the total BS.

They are F ed. And I don’t give a F. Pinball is no longer a COLLECTIBLE hobby and for that reason it’s gonzo.

“But I’m a tournament player and I’m awesome”. Nobody gives a F!

“Collectible”. See the new series on Netflix, season 2, Goldin auctions.

You will never see a pinball machine in the “pop culture” auction for good reason.

11
#2887 30 days ago
Quoted from dsmoke1986:

How can someone play Venom and not love the coding and IC integration?
It’s the future of pinball

If the future of pinball is video games, I’ll just play video games - much cheaper.

IMO, Venom’s code is unsatisfying from the get go: Character selection, bleh. For me, Venom would be so much cooler if you chose your Venomized character through a variety of shots - with the final shot showing them getting goo’d & causing the playfield features to transform. That would be a moment and satisfying..watching everything change before launching doesn't feel earned.

As for saving your progress - doesn’t that make scoring meaningless? I have to imagine a leveled up game that lets you get to modes a level 1 player can’t get to would have different scoring logic. Video games are about getting to the end, no one really cares about score. Is that where we want pinball? I like some of the advancements that pinball has taken - but it’s still fundamentally a 3 ball game of skill, and rules should function within that structure.

#2888 30 days ago

You can get a ps5 and all three Spider-Man games and have a better venom experience with tony Todd doing his voice

Avengers and venom both wreak or cell phone touch rpg and since Dwight did time at a cell game
Company it shows

23
#2889 30 days ago

I’m a senior programmer at a video game studio so I might be biased, but Stern needs to offer digital versions of their games if they want to expand the market. As machines get more expensive and the majority of people who actually remember playing pinball as kids die off I feel like the new game buying market will migrate back to being primarily operators and arcade/barcades (as it probably should). There is no theme that will make an average person spend what a pinball machine costs to own one, including Pokemon, Taylor Swift or BTS or whatever, and you’re delusional if you think theme would “put asses into seats” beyond a shrinking pool of nostalgia to old guys with money or the hardest of hardcore nerds in specific fandoms. I want to see a return of games tucked away in corners of local spaces instead of 10-15 game basements with each game getting less than 100 plays total. That’s not how you grow a market, especially with things that cost the price of a luxury watch or designer clothes with absolutely none of the prestige.

I think the best long-term move would be to release digital versions of new games with an easy to digest onbording process for understanding the game’s rules and pinball concepts in general, and insider connected would offer incentives or reward additional progress or bonuses in the digital version by seeking out a physical machine near you and dropping coin. Make it super easy to find one nearby with a map and have regional community features a-la Pokemon GO and now operators have a chance at seeing younger, fresh faces who will walk up to the machine and actually know what to do and enjoy themselves. I don’t think a digital version would make people not want to play a physical machine - if anything I think it’d make people want to try and experience the real thing and can actually engage with it on a deeper level than just flipping wildly, losing all their balls and deciding pinball’s dumb. Rhythm games thrive in arcades despite readily available digital versions because of community and the experience of a physical, dedicated machine that provides an experience that they can’t get at home, and pinball should be leaning into that more if they want to grow. The broader appeal of a pinball machine in 2024 IS the hardware, not code - the physicality of a real metal ball flying around and the intricate mechanisms and light show. I doubt any auto manufacturer ever lost a sale cause you could experience a realistic simulation of a car in Gran Turismo or Forza or whatever (cargument?)

#2890 30 days ago

Pretty sure they did release a bunch of Sam games but they won’t so late model stuff to early

#2891 30 days ago
Quoted from Miranda:

I’m a senior programmer at a video game studio so I might be biased, but Stern needs to offer digital versions of their games if they want to expand the market. As machines get more expensive and the majority of people who actually remember playing pinball as kids die off I feel like the new game buying market will migrate back to being primarily operators and arcade/barcades (as it probably should). There is no theme that will make an average person spend what a pinball machine costs to own one, including Pokemon, Taylor Swift or BTS or whatever, and you’re delusional if you think theme would “put asses into seats” beyond a shrinking pool of nostalgia to old guys with money or the hardest of hardcore nerds in specific fandoms. I want to see a return of games tucked away in corners of local spaces instead of 10-15 game basements with each game getting less than 100 plays total. That’s not how you grow a market, especially with things that cost the price of a luxury watch or designer clothes with absolutely none of the prestige.
I think the best long-term move would be to release digital versions of new games with an easy to digest onbording process for understanding the game’s rules and pinball concepts in general, and insider connected would offer incentives or reward additional progress or bonuses in the digital version by seeking out a physical machine near you and dropping coin. Make it super easy to find one nearby with a map and have regional community features a-la Pokemon GO and now operators have a chance at seeing younger, fresh faces who will walk up to the machine and actually know what to do and enjoy themselves. I don’t think a digital version would make people not want to play a physical machine - if anything I think it’d make people want to try and experience the real thing and can actually engage with it on a deeper level than just flipping wildly, losing all their balls and deciding pinball’s dumb. Rhythm games thrive in arcades despite readily available digital versions because of community and the experience of a physical, dedicated machine that provides an experience that they can’t get at home, and pinball should be leaning into that more if they want to grow. The broader appeal of a pinball machine in 2024 IS the hardware, not code - the physicality of a real metal ball flying around and the intricate mechanisms and light show. I doubt any auto manufacturer ever lost a sale cause you could experience a realistic simulation of a car in Gran Turismo or Forza or whatever (cargument?)

Stern has their own platform on Steam. Steam is free, they give you 1 free game...Mustang I think.

#2892 30 days ago

There’s been a couple games released on pinball arcade too

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#2893 30 days ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Will John Wick LEs meet the same fate as Venom LEs? This is the question in my mind today.

I hope so. I’ll buy one.

#2894 30 days ago
Quoted from Oneironaut:

Stern has their own platform on Steam. Steam is free, they give you 1 free game...Mustang I think.

I’m aware of the Stern/Farsight stuff but they stopped updating a long time ago and I don’t think that was ever something they really invested any real effort into (Stern I mean, not Farsight). Their digital distribution model would need to change, too - its doing a disservice to the licenses by making these games as DLC and becomes basically unfindable on mobile marketplaces. A license like John Wick will absolutely have people unfamiliar with pinball downloading “John Wick Pinball” and being exposed to pinball in general, but that same person would never even think to download “Pinball Arcade” or “Pinball FX” and discover that it has a John Wick table

17
#2895 30 days ago

I like Stern pinball machines because they are.... pinball machines. They are not video games. The whole IC feature is the first move into trying to turn a pinball machine into something else. I could care less about inter connected and I do not think I am alone. Hell, one of the great things about pinball is that I can ditch my damn phone for an hour.

#2896 30 days ago
Quoted from gandamack:

I like Stern pinball machines because they are.... pinball machines. They are not video games. The whole IC feature is the first move into trying to turn a pinball machine into something else. I could care less about inter connected and I do not think I am alone. Hell, one of the great things about pinball is that I can ditch my damn phone for an hour.

I don't have 1 machine connected, my Deadpool and BM66 don't even have it and, they aint gettin it!

#2897 30 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

TSLA is worth another $1-2 trillion because it is an AI software company and NOT a hardware car maker.
Same with Apple, MSFT, Adbe, AMZN and every other company out there.
Widget sales only is a horrendous model and Stern knows it.
Do they seem to give a F about raising prices from $10,500 to $13k on LEs. No
It’s funny how the newbies that don’t even buy those game opine on the total BS.
They are F ed. And I don’t give a F. Pinball is no longer a COLLECTIBLE hobby and for that reason it’s gonzo.
“But I’m a tournament player and I’m awesome”. Nobody gives a F!
“Collectible”. See the new series on Netflix, season 2, Goldin auctions.
You will never see a pinball machine in the “pop culture” auction for good reason.

I feel ya, but how many drinks are ya in Cowboy? Haaa. Cheers brother just first world problems.

#2898 30 days ago
Quoted from Miranda:

I’m a senior programmer at a video game studio so I might be biased, but Stern needs to offer digital versions of their games if they want to expand the market. As machines get more expensive and the majority of people who actually remember playing pinball as kids die off I feel like the new game buying market will migrate back to being primarily operators and arcade/barcades (as it probably should). There is no theme that will make an average person spend what a pinball machine costs to own one, including Pokemon, Taylor Swift or BTS or whatever, and you’re delusional if you think theme would “put asses into seats” beyond a shrinking pool of nostalgia to old guys with money or the hardest of hardcore nerds in specific fandoms. I want to see a return of games tucked away in corners of local spaces instead of 10-15 game basements with each game getting less than 100 plays total. That’s not how you grow a market, especially with things that cost the price of a luxury watch or designer clothes with absolutely none of the prestige.
I think the best long-term move would be to release digital versions of new games with an easy to digest onbording process for understanding the game’s rules and pinball concepts in general, and insider connected would offer incentives or reward additional progress or bonuses in the digital version by seeking out a physical machine near you and dropping coin. Make it super easy to find one nearby with a map and have regional community features a-la Pokemon GO and now operators have a chance at seeing younger, fresh faces who will walk up to the machine and actually know what to do and enjoy themselves. I don’t think a digital version would make people not want to play a physical machine - if anything I think it’d make people want to try and experience the real thing and can actually engage with it on a deeper level than just flipping wildly, losing all their balls and deciding pinball’s dumb. Rhythm games thrive in arcades despite readily available digital versions because of community and the experience of a physical, dedicated machine that provides an experience that they can’t get at home, and pinball should be leaning into that more if they want to grow. The broader appeal of a pinball machine in 2024 IS the hardware, not code - the physicality of a real metal ball flying around and the intricate mechanisms and light show. I doubt any auto manufacturer ever lost a sale cause you could experience a realistic simulation of a car in Gran Turismo or Forza or whatever (cargument?)

You won my internet for the day. This is a brilliant idea! Instead of bricking current pinball machines, bring in the software games with the same IC achievements (and more?) and this younger crowd will undoubtedly want to play the real thing..hence bringing in more sales as the younger crowd has the ability to buy 1 pro pinball..bridging the gap. Let’s not lie; console and PC games RULE the market. Your idea would (eventually) bridge the gap. THAT would, in itself, take pressure off of Stern, US, and hopefully would lower msrp but that’s wishing in one hand..they could partner with a biggish game company and invite them to work, in-house with them.
***see! I still care after getting the shaft doing music for them** they lost a solid dude doing stellar work (another story)

#2899 30 days ago
Quoted from KING-HENRY:

I feel ya, but how many drinks are ya in Cowboy? Haaa. Cheers brother just first world problems.

So got to play the Wick LE a dozen times or so at Frisco bar.

Put up 2nd high score

Right next to it was a Venom LE, Foo A Smith LE and a Medieval Madness.

A Jaws pro was on the other end. It’s barren as F.

I’d buy a FOO or Vemom before Wick now.

Love the layout but $9k is what I’d do max. The LCD was a ZERO.

Much better than that dog AIQ though

-1
#2900 30 days ago
Quoted from PanzerKraken:

Software is important and the future, but not the idea of tying to squeeze customers with stuff like subscriptions. Improving their infrastructure, IC, adding in the online features that Venom, Wick and others are playing with, all great ideas. But at this time when they are having issues moving hardware, shifting to a new model of trying to extort money from customers is not a bright idea.
People are not buying new machines, for stern to start asking them to also start paying subs for features, that's not going to go over well. People are not going to turn around and start buying, if anything it's going to further push away customers.

The point of paying for subs resonates with me and I agree generally. It’s what some are willing to pay for mods and toppers that gives me pause. Each are way over priced (yep the 3D models hand painted included). Yet, there a sizable share of the Pinside market that gobbles up every add-on to this pins because there’s a niche market willing to pay the same or more price for the mods. I don’t think a sub would detract these folks which makes a healthy enough proportion of the market IMO. Folks will buy a GZ topper (or rig a board) just to have access to another wizard. $240 a year ($20/month) would be peanuts. FOMO rules much of our market.

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