(Topic ID: 356248)

Wow - Stern and Distributors in FULL PANIC mode with John Wick.

By delt31

70 days ago


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There are 3,166 posts in this topic. You are on page 47 of 64.
-1
#2301 37 days ago
Quoted from Apollo18:

Agreed. That JW UPF does not look at all interesting or exciting.
Whoever made that choice to eliminate it, made a great call.
Stern has produced some kickass UPF with FF & JAWS; this JW one by the looks of it would’ve been dull and unneeded.

Yes, thank you Stern for now cutting out the ball eating shark from Jaws and the upper playfield from John Wick. We don’t need features that add more to games and increase perceived value at these all time record high prices.

#2302 37 days ago

That upper PF looked awful. Like something hideous, costly and unneeded that JJP would put into their game. That upper JW upper PF looked “JJP bad”.

I’m not a fan of the JW pin, hence I’m actually being objective here.
IMO Stern made the right call getting rid of UPF for wick.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Yes, thank you Stern for now cutting out the ball eating shark from Jaws and the upper playfield from John Wick. We don’t need features that add more to games and increase perceived value at these all time record high prices.

#2303 37 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I think 90% of upper playfields are fun and add to a games world under glass feeling.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

When the upper playfield was removed was it replaced with a feature that was as substantial?

Yes. That whitewood doesn't have the crate mech with scoop, or the drop target lock. Those are probably more fun than yet another upper playfield. You're definitely in the minority if you enjoy 90% of them.

#2304 37 days ago
Quoted from Sorokyl:

I also assume that someone in the last 40+ years of pinball has already had this idea, figured out it sucked, and got rid of it.

Yup and they didn't even get rid of it: WWE.

edit: TreyBoy beat me to it. Pinside keeps receipts!

#2305 37 days ago
Quoted from Apollo18:

That upper PF looked awful. Like something hideous, costly and unneeded that JJP would put into their game. That upper JW upper PF looked “JJP bad”.
I’m not a fan of the JW pin, hence I’m actually being objective here.
IMO Stern made the right call getting rid of UPF for wick.

Oh here come the JJP jabs, not surprised as you have all Sterns…not exactly being objective there lol.

JJP upper playfields are amazing IMO. GNR guitar lock with multiple shots and the ship from Pirates are two that come to mind which are a lot of fun. Rather have that then a cheesy chunk of metal acting as a ball lock.

#2306 37 days ago

They could've redesigned the upper PF, made it similar to some smaller upper PF's (WH2O, TSPP, that loop part of Gold Wings) where it's just a 1-timer shot. Have the ball enter fast, and have it be just 1 ramp shot to a physical ball lock. Call it a "snipe" or whatever, and have the ball lock not be fugly.

What's there now is just an open invitation to modders to finish their ball lock design work.

#2307 37 days ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

They could've redesigned the upper PF, made it similar to some smaller upper PF's (WH2O, TSPP, that loop part of Gold Wings) where it's just a 1-timer shot. Have the ball enter fast, and have it be just 1 ramp shot to a physical ball lock. Call it a "snipe" or whatever, and have the ball lock not be fugly.
What's there now is just an open invitation to modders to finish their ball lock design work.

They just did exactly that on Jaws, a one-timer shot upper playfield, so it'd make sense if they didn't want to do that twice in a row.

BTW, TSPP's upper playfield isn't a one-timer shot at all, you can spend quite a while in there. The couch shot is sort of a one-timer from the TV release, but it's also possible to shoot the couch from a loose ball that's been bouncing around any number of times.

#2308 37 days ago
Quoted from Apollo18:

I’m not a fan of the JW pin, hence I’m actually being objective here.

This is truly the most wild statement. You think because you don’t like something then that somehow makes your take on it more objective?

-9
#2309 37 days ago

I have said this many times. Pinball should never be an investment first for a home buyer. John Wick will sell ok. It's the fastest playing stern so far. Is a pin from the 90s worth 10k plus? the ones they made over 10k of them. Leave pinside.com and find a new hobby if the price of new machines bothers you so much.

#2310 37 days ago
Quoted from vikingerik:

They just did exactly that on Jaws, a one-timer shot upper playfield, so it'd make sense if they didn't want to do that twice in a row.
BTW, TSPP's upper playfield isn't a one-timer shot at all, you can spend quite a while in there. The couch shot is sort of a one-timer from the TV release, but it's also possible to shoot the couch from a loose ball that's been bouncing around any number of times.

I'm not saying to copy those upper PF's. I'm saying use the essence of hitting a 1-timer to snipe a ramp. Adding a lock makes sense. Having the ball enter fast (unlike Jaws or TSPP) makes some sense.

Where the design started and ended is a headscratcher and makes you wonder if there were some missed opportunities for improvement when just tossing out a boring upper PF.

-1
#2311 37 days ago
Quoted from Rodgy_beats:

This is truly the most wild statement. You think because you don’t like something then that somehow makes your take on it more objective?

makes sense to me tbh

26
#2312 37 days ago
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#2313 37 days ago

Non-existent upper playfields. Should be good a day or two though.

#2314 37 days ago
Quoted from Jaytech10:

John Wick will sell ok. It's the fastest playing stern so far.

We already forgot that Venom existed?

#2315 37 days ago
Quoted from vikingerik:

We already forgot that Venom existed?

Yeah. Wick isn't anything special speed wise (it's new people, let it break in a bit and get dirty). Venom is purposefully staging balls to speed up gameplay.

#2316 37 days ago
Quoted from vikingerik:

We already forgot that Venom existed?

Venom is earning good for me. Better than FF and probably jaws as far similar time on route.

#2317 37 days ago
Quoted from Jaytech10:

Venom is earning good for me. Better than FF and probably jaws as far similar time on route.

Because no one wants to buy it for home, so play on location

Wont be surprised if Wick is similar. Not a lot of people wanting to buy it, but going to locations to play them.

#2318 37 days ago
Quoted from Jaytech10:

Venom is earning good for me. Better than FF and probably jaws as far similar time on route.

That's because it's a darn fun game despite what the mob says.

#2319 37 days ago

venom is certainly every bit as good as John Wick...

#2320 37 days ago
Quoted from gliebig:

That's because it's a darn fun game despite what the mob says.

We definitely give ours a lot of play. I can sort of understand some "hate" given it is a bit bare looking compared to Godzilla or Foo, but every pin can't be what's considered the best of all time. It's a ton of fun, we like the progression aspect, and it's a great looking machine for sure.

11
#2321 37 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Because no one wants to buy it for home, so play on location

Wont be surprised if Wick is similar. Not a lot of people wanting to buy it, but going to locations to play t

Believe it or not, there are people that play on location that don't even own games!
The thought that Wick is earning well on route just cannot be accepted by people that are trying as hard as they can to make it a bad game by Pinside Mob.
It might not be the greatest game by some standards, but the thought that it's doing well on location because collectors are lined up at the arcade to play the game they won't buy is absurd.
It's being played by the public, that think it looks like a cool game with a John Wick theme.
Hell, they probably don't even know they are missing out on that mini playfield that may or may not have existed.

-1
#2322 37 days ago

Generally speaking
Over 70% of the pinball market are home collectors.

When home collectors pass on a specific pin, then that pin becomes uncommon and relatively hard to find. Examples: EJ, venom & JW.

So, these titles get more plays in the wild because people want to try them and only place they can be found are outside the home market.
Regardless of if they’re good pins or bad pins, they become relatively hard to find/rare pins for anyone who wants to try one, which really mostly matters while the title is fresh and new.

Long term tho, those title will tank even on location once ppl have got their fill to flip a few balls and time passes onto the next shiny pin etc.
as these sort of titles don’t have staying power, which is why ppl don’t want to buy them.

Quoted from DNO:

Believe it or not, there are people that play on location that don't even own games!
The thought that Wick is earning well on route just cannot be accepted by people that are trying as hard as they can to make it a bad game by Pinside Mob.
It might not be the greatest game by some standards, but the thought that it's doing well on location because collectors are lined up at the arcade to play the game they won't buy is absurd.
It's being played by the public, that think it looks like a cool game with a John Wick theme.
Hell, they probably don't even know they are missing out on that mini playfield that may or may not have existed.

#2323 37 days ago

Hold this thread as I walk away...

#2324 37 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Apparently a John Wick whitewood had an upper playfield. I'm sure everyone is happy this was replaced with the cheap exposed metal "deconsecrated" ball lock. Thank you Stern for making another cost cutting decision that doesn't offer value to you're customers lol.
https://www.knapparcade.org/post/pedretti-gaming-shows-off-funhouse-remake-on-the-line-changes-to-stern-pinball-s-john-wick-during-d
[quoted image]

I'm guessing that because BOTH Jaws and Foo Fighters recently had upper left playfields, the worst of the 3 has to go. They were already pushing it with 2 games almost back to back with upper PFs. John Wick's clearly looks lame, especially compared to Jaws and Foo.

#2325 37 days ago
Quoted from Apollo18:

Generally speaking
Over 70% of the pinball market are home collectors.
When home collectors pass on a specific pin, then that pin becomes uncommon and relatively hard to find. Examples: EJ, venom & JW.
So, these titles get more plays in the wild because people want to try them and only place they can be found are outside the home market.
Regardless of if they’re good pins or bad pins, they become relatively hard to find/rare pins for anyone who wants to try one, which really mostly matters while the title is fresh and new.
Long term tho, those title will tank even on location once ppl have got their fill to flip a few balls and time passes onto the next shiny pin etc.
as these sort of titles don’t have staying power, which is why ppl don’t want to buy them.

Going on 2 years my ts4 is not tanking. Deadpool was the same before I sold it to a friend of mine. And others I can name. Where do you get your data that 70 percent of pinball collectors are home buyers? Do you think the majority of home collector buyers are on pinside? No they are not because I have 20+ customers that I do repairs for and they don't have a pinside handle. I moved machines when I made enough money on them. I bet that 40% home 60% route/location. World wide

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13
#2326 37 days ago
Quoted from Geoffery:

We definitely give ours a lot of play. I can sort of understand some "hate" given it is a bit bare looking compared to Godzilla or Foo, but every pin can't be what's considered the best of all time. It's a ton of fun, we like the progression aspect, and it's a great looking machine for sure.

I would add that sometimes less is more, like I prefer Black Knight Pro to most pins for example. Here that game gets endlessly criticized but it's one of my favorites of all time, to each their own. I have played a few games on JW as well and sure the code is early, but I had fun which is all that matters to me.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#2327 37 days ago
Quoted from Jaytech10:

Going on 2 years my ts4 is not tanking. Deadpool was the same before I sold it to a friend of mine. And others I can name. Where do you get your data that 70 percent of pinball collectors are home buyers? Do you think the majority of home collector buyers are on pinside? No they are not because I have 20+ customers that I do repairs for and they don't have a pinside handle. I moved machines when I made enough money on them. I bet that 40% home 60% route/location. World wide

Stern themselves stated that their market is largely HUO.

https://www.retailbrew.com/stories/2024/01/22/pinball-machine-maker-expands-with-rising-demand

#2328 37 days ago
Quoted from Jaytech10:

Going on 2 years my ts4 is not tanking. Deadpool was the same before I sold it to a friend of mine. And others I can name. Where do you get your data that 70 percent of pinball collectors are home buyers? Do you think the majority of home collector buyers are on pinside? No they are not because I have 20+ customers that I do repairs for and they don't have a pinside handle. I moved machines when I made enough money on them. I bet that 40% home 60% route/location. World wide

People own pinball machines without being on Piniside?! I only bought a pinball machine so I could be on Pinside.

#2329 37 days ago
Quoted from Sorokyl:

Clearly looks like a "slings as flippers" gimmick. No room for flippers and they wouldn't have the slings if they were gonna do magnets. I assume the flipper buttons control the slings. I also assume that someone in the last 40+ years of pinball has already had this idea, figured out it sucked, and got rid of it.
There's no interesting geometry about the upper playfield, no paths at all, just some drops and stand ups it looks like. To me seems like one that would have ruined the prem/le for most people. We know Stern is not afraid of upper playfields. 2 of the last 3 games before this had one. And it's not like they needed the BOM to do something else cool. Someone made a good decision to cut this one just from a fun factor.
[quoted image]

Looks like a much larger red room, that would have had a plunger to release out of the room. Wouldn’t have been as fast as the small room.

#2330 37 days ago

Stern has over 90% of the market.

Over 70% of the market are home collectors.

Quoted from Jaytech10:

Going on 2 years my ts4 is not tanking. Deadpool was the same before I sold it to a friend of mine. And others I can name. Where do you get your data that 70 percent of pinball collectors are home buyers? Do you think the majority of home collector buyers are on pinside? No they are not because I have 20+ customers that I do repairs for and they don't have a pinside handle. I moved machines when I made enough money on them. I bet that 40% home 60% route/location. World wide

#2331 37 days ago
Quoted from Apollo18:

That upper PF looked awful. Like something hideous, costly and unneeded that JJP would put into their game. That upper JW upper PF looked “JJP bad”.
I’m not a fan of the JW pin, hence I’m actually being objective here.
IMO Stern made the right call getting rid of UPF for wick.

Hopefully you mean gnr. The upper playfields on potc and woz are great.

#2332 37 days ago
pinparty.gifpinparty.gif
#2333 37 days ago
Quoted from Apollo18:

Stern has over 90% of the market.
Over 70% of the market are home collectors.

Thanks. What percentage of home collectors are passing on recent titles? It's hard to say. 10% or less of the home buyers are on pinside most likely. I the market is shifting for location side.

#2334 37 days ago

I agree. But would add also, certain % of home buyers are just leaving the market altogether.

Hope to see more locations opening and that market growing in the coming years

Quoted from Jaytech10:

I the market is shifting for location side.

19
#2335 37 days ago

Also important to remember that 73.852% of statistics are made up on the spot to support an argument.

#2336 37 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Flippers may not have been there yet in the whitewood, could have also been magnets Twilight Zone mini playfield style. Who knows, already looked better then below lol.
If anything the pro should have got the ball lock below and the premium / LE the mini playfield.
[quoted image]

No. Elliot said that the early design of the upper playfield was changed because it wasn't fun. He showed a short video of the prototype in action. Worth watching the presentation instead of face-planting the hot take.

#2337 37 days ago
Quoted from EhEhRon:

Also important to remember that 73.852% of statistics are made up on the spot to support an argument.

D84FD05B-1B61-4D42-80E0-675B3AB38DD5 (resized).jpegD84FD05B-1B61-4D42-80E0-675B3AB38DD5 (resized).jpeg
#2338 37 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Apparently a John Wick whitewood had an upper playfield. I'm sure everyone is happy this was replaced with the cheap exposed metal "deconsecrated" ball lock. Thank you Stern for making another cost cutting decision that doesn't offer value to you're customers lol.
https://www.knapparcade.org/post/pedretti-gaming-shows-off-funhouse-remake-on-the-line-changes-to-stern-pinball-s-john-wick-during-d
[quoted image]

I’m sure the twenty or so buyers of this title are up in arms.

#2339 37 days ago
Quoted from Jaytech10:

Hopefully you mean gnr. The upper playfields on potc and woz are great.

GnR upper playfield out here catching strays. I'm sorry but the upper flip to a guitar lock is cool as hell and great theme integration. GnR has plenty of problems but the upper playfield isn't one of them.

#2340 37 days ago
Quoted from ChuckRock:

GnR upper playfield out here catching strays. I'm sorry but the upper flip to a guitar lock is cool as hell and great theme integration. GnR has plenty of problems but the upper playfield isn't one of them.

And the game is unplayable without ut.

#2341 37 days ago

Gomez specifically said he put an end to the upper playfield on Wick - in either his interview with Joel on the Flip N Out stream, or on the Loserkid stream that Gomez walked right into after Joel's.

He was discussing throwing out Elliot's first two designs. To very roughly paraphrase it from memory, Gomez said something like "this upper playfield is going to be your main toy? No, no it's not." The tone I thought was interesting.

ETA: It was the Loserkid interview, around the 46:00 minute ball park - really interesting conversation starting back another ten minutes or so, with discussion around Gomez's influence on his design shop there at Stern, more or less.

10
#2342 37 days ago
Quoted from PinKopf:

Gomez specifically said he put an end to the upper playfield on Wick - in either his interview with Joel on the Flip N Out stream, or on the Loserkid stream that Gomez walked right into after Joel's.
He was discussing throwing out Elliot's first two designs. To very roughly paraphrase it from memory, Gomez said something like "this upper playfield is going to be your main toy? No, no it's not." The tone I thought was interesting.

It's great that instead of an upper playfield that a cost equivalent feature was included...

When anyone stares as this bare chunk of exposed metal the first thing they are going to think of is John Wick and the "deconsecrated" scenes. The exposed opto sensor and cable connector are as beautiful as the bare metal surrounding it. Don't worry, a $200 3D printed mod is coming soon as it's crazy to think that something molded resembling literally anything from the theme would cover this at $9,800 - $13,000.

I can't believe how much this adds to the world under glass feeling. It's a privilege to pay $2,800 over the pro to get this amazing feature alone.

Downvote away Stern Army members, have to get that 3 star general status somehow.

Screenshot 2024-06-12 092248 (resized).jpgScreenshot 2024-06-12 092248 (resized).jpg

#2343 37 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

It's great that instead of an upper playfield that a cost equivalent feature was included...
When anyone stares as this bare chunk of exposed metal the first thing they are going to think of is John Wick and the "deconsecrated" scenes. The exposed opto sensor and cable connector are as beautiful as the bare metal surrounding it. Don't worry, a $200 3D printed mod is coming soon as it's crazy to think that something molded resembling literally anything from the theme would cover this at $9,800 - $13,000.
I can't believe how much this adds to the world under glass feeling. It's a privilege to pay $2,800 over the pro to get this amazing feature alone.
Downvote away Stern Army members, have to get that 3 star general status somehow.
[quoted image]

That was quite the edit since my downvote. You're fucking exhausting.

#2344 37 days ago
Quoted from jdoz2:

That was quite the edit since my downvote. You're fucking exhausting.

Guys a snake.

#2345 37 days ago

Right, but that’s not the same thing. A pin sold to a home has one player (give or take). A pin sold to a route can have hundreds to thousands of players (think barcade).

The idea that 70% of location players own a pin at home is ludicrous.

#2346 37 days ago
Quoted from EhEhRon:

Also important to remember that 73.852% of statistics are made up on the spot to support an argument.

But there's only a 10% chance of that.

#2347 37 days ago
Quoted from jdoz2:

That was quite the edit since my downvote. You're fucking exhausting.

Just kept coming up with stuff to add. I'm joking, I love exposed metal brackets on my $9,800 - $13,000 pinball machines (*sarcasm).

#2348 37 days ago

That is the absolute best part about this thread. It goes where it wants and does what it wants. I barely even look at any of the other threads rn…far too entertaining to spend my time anywhere else.
If this thread were a person, I’d say it falls into the Crazy Girlfriend category.

#2349 37 days ago
Quoted from underlord:

I’m sure the twenty or so buyers of this title are up in arms.

Arms? ok. But not up in fire arms!

#2350 37 days ago
Quoted from Pinbarclay:

Right, but that’s not the same thing. A pin sold to a home has one player (give or take). A pin sold to a route can have hundreds to thousands of players (think barcade).
The idea that 70% of location players own a pin at home is ludicrous.

I don't think that's the claim. The claim is that 70% of Stern sales are to home buyers.

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